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Old 01-13-2018, 03:25 PM   #101
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Actually, I wouldn't worry about getting used to it. The term "mid-front" or "front-mid" was invented by marketing / advertising people not engineers. The 1908 Ford Model T qualifies as a front mid car as well as 80% of all front engine cars ever manufactured. The term "front mid" is meaningless. There have been some cars over the years wherein the engine was placed far enough back in the chassis that weight distribution and handling were improved (i.e. Indy roadsters, some Panoz race cars, etc...), but, this list does not include the Corvette or most of the other front engine production cars.
AND we still hear the marketing lingo "Perfect 50/50 weight distribution," as if it really is the perfect weight distribution for a RWD.

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Regarding engine placement, the operative terms are, as always, front, mid and rear!
Amen to that.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:52 PM   #102
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AND we still hear the marketing lingo "Perfect 50/50 weight distribution," as if it really is the perfect weight distribution for a RWD.

Amen to that.
Porsche has been making sports cars for some time with the engine located in different areas of the car.

Porsche says their 911 is "rear engine". https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/9...turesandspecs/

Porsche says their 918 is "mid engine". http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/20...918-Spyder.pdf

Porsche says the engine in their Boxster is "mid mounted". http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/07...ox_Box_S_specs.

Porsche says the Cayman is "mid engine". https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/7...turesandspecs/

That's all the description I need to understand where the engine is located as I know the engine in all the Corvettes I have owned to date has had the engine located in "front" of me.

As to the "perfect" 50/50 ratio we hear so much about today; Duntov said in a SAE paper about the "new" 1963 Corvette that the ideal weight distribution was from between 47/53 to 40/60 for a "highpower to weight ratio" car. The 1963 Corvette had a 47/53 weight distribution, not a "perfect 50/50" weight distribution. LOL.

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Old 01-13-2018, 05:04 PM   #103
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The 1963 Corvette had a 47/53 weight distribution.
Interesting, I did not know that about the 63 Corvette.

I guess I would say 45/55 to 40/60, but who am I to argue with Mr. Duntov.

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Old 01-13-2018, 05:27 PM   #104
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Interesting, I did know that about the 63 Corvette.

I guess I would say 45/55 to 40/60, but who am I to argue with Mr. Duntov.
And the 1963 Corvette's center of gravity was 16.5 inches above the pavement(just like my C6 Z06) unlike the C7's 17.5 inches.

Oh and the 1963 Corvette has more ground clearance than either the C6 or the C7. Lower the 1963 to the same ground clearance as the C6 and C7 and you would drop the center of gravity even lower.

Then factor in the 98 inch wheelbase and you have a winner with the C2.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:52 PM   #105
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And the 1963 Corvette's center of gravity was 16.5 inches above the pavement(just like my C6 Z06) unlike the C7's 17.5 inches.
Is your C6 Z06 lowered?
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:33 PM   #106
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Is your C6 Z06 lowered?
No.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:18 PM   #107
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No.
.
.
Just wondering which C6 Z06 CG height figure that you posted is correct.
.
.

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Originally Posted by JoesC5
And the 1963 Corvette's center of gravity was 16.5 inches above the pavement(just like my C6 Z06) unlike the C7's 17.5 inches.
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C6 Z06 is also 17.5". I guess they never measured many cars, or C&D has a very poor memory.

"At least Tesla uses this mass to good effect. The battery is below the passenger cabin—as low as it can be placed. The electric motor and power electronics also are mounted low and behind the rear axle. The result is a front/rear weight distribution of 47/53 percent and, more important, a center- of-gravity height of 18.0 inches. That’s one of the lowest we’ve measured, second only to the C6 Corvette Z06’s 17.5. "

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Originally Posted by JoesC5
.......
As I pointed out, other generations of Corvettes have bettered the C7's center of gravity height, going back 50 years, and the C7's center of gravity height is no lower than the old, obsolete, ugly C6's center of gravity height.

.....

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...oked-spec.html


~

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Old 01-13-2018, 08:35 PM   #108
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.
.
Just wondering which C6 Z06 CG height figure that you posted is correct.
.










https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...oked-spec.html
Memory getting bad on the C6 Z06 spec, I guess. My bad. But still, the 1963 has a lower CofG than the C6 and the C7.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:12 PM   #109
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Memory getting bad on the C6 Z06 spec, I guess. My bad. But still, the 1963 has a lower CofG than the C6 and the C7.
Not that I'm purposely bringing up your old posts, but I didn't know the spec either so I did a google search and your old CF post came up near the top. I couldn't find a published source for the C6 CG info, in my brief search.

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Old 01-13-2018, 09:16 PM   #110
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Not that I'm purposely bringing up your old posts, but I didn't know the spec either so I did a google search and your old CF post came up near the top. I couldn't find a published source for the C6 CG info, in my brief search.
I made an incorrect post and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. I don't want to purposely put bad info out there.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:07 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
Porsche has been making sports cars for some time with the engine located in different areas of the car.

Porsche says their 911 is "rear engine". https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/9...turesandspecs/

Porsche says their 918 is "mid engine". http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/20...918-Spyder.pdf

Porsche says the engine in their Boxster is "mid mounted". http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/07...ox_Box_S_specs.

Porsche says the Cayman is "mid engine". https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/7...turesandspecs/

That's all the description I need to understand where the engine is located as I know the engine in all the Corvettes I have owned to date has had the engine located in "front" of me.

As to the "perfect" 50/50 ratio we hear so much about today; Duntov said in a SAE paper about the "new" 1963 Corvette that the ideal weight distribution was from between 47/53 to 40/60 for a "highpower to weight ratio" car. The 1963 Corvette had a 47/53 weight distribution, not a "perfect 50/50" weight distribution. LOL.
50/50 weight distribution is bogus. You could have a mid engine car with 50/50 or you could have a front engine car with rear transmission that is 50/50. Which would be better? Of course the midengine one would have lower polar moment of inertia and turn better. More weight on the rear helps acceleration as we all know so Like he says some bias to the rear is better.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:25 AM   #112
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A 50/50 weight distribution is optimal only with an AWD that truly distributes equal power to all 4 wheels simultaneously at all times...something I don't think any modern car does these days.

Ideally (from a performance POV), the FE RWD Corvettes should been somewhere around 40/60 in weight distribution.
I would love to have my Z with that kind of a number.
With its LT4 power, it's way too easy to break the back-end loose.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:18 AM   #113
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A 50/50 weight distribution is optimal only with an AWD that truly distributes equal power to all 4 wheels simultaneously at all times...something I don't think any modern car does these days.

Ideally (from a performance POV), the FE RWD Corvettes should been somewhere around 40/60 in weight distribution.
I would love to have my Z with that kind of a number.
With its LT4 power, it's way too easy to break the back-end loose.
The front engine Mercedes AMG GT R has a 47/53 weight distribution as the passenger compartment is located closer to the rear axle since the DCT is located behind the rear axle.

On the front engine Corvette(C5/C6/C7), the passenger compartment has to be located more forward since the transmission is mounted in front of the rear axle.

Since handling means nothing unless there is someone in the driver's seat actually driving the car, having the passenger compartment located more rearward also means the weight of the driver is more rearward, helping move the weight distribution rearward when the car is actually being driven.

Having the passenger compartment located closer to the rear axle, as with the AMG GT R, also allows the engine to be mounted more rearward.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:23 AM   #114
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50/50 weight distribution is bogus. You could have a mid engine car with 50/50 or you could have a front engine car with rear transmission that is 50/50. Which would be better? Of course the midengine one would have lower polar moment of inertia and turn better. More weight on the rear helps acceleration as we all know so Like he says some bias to the rear is better.
Look at the C2. It has a short 98" wheelbase, has the engine located behind the front axle line, has the transmission located towards the center of the car and has the driver located closer to the rear axle You have most of the mass(engine, transmission, driver) located closer to the center of the car with a 47/53 weight distribution instead of being at the extreme ends of a long wheelbase car.

Of course the C2 has a heavy spare tire located in a rub that is located at the very rear of the car. While that weight hanging behind the rear axlehelps the weight distribution, removing that 60 pound weight helps the car's turning ability while getting rid of unnecessary weight

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Old 01-14-2018, 06:06 AM   #115
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Look at the C2. It has a short 98" wheelbase, has the engine located behind the front axle line, has the transmission located towards the center of the car and has the driver located closer to the rear axle You have most of the mass(engine, transmission, driver) located closer to the center of the car with a 47/53 weight distribution instead of being at the extreme ends of a long wheelbase car.

Of course the C2 has a heavy spare tire located in a rub that is located at the very rear of the car. While that weight hanging behind the rear axlehelps the weight distribution, removing that 60 pound weight helps the car's turning ability while getting rid of unnecessary weight
I agree. I am just saying that the actual percentage can be misleading since could have terrible polar moment of inertia depending how far the mass is from the center of rotation.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:08 AM   #116
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I agree. I am just saying that the actual percentage can be misleading since could have terrible polar moment of inertia depending how far the mass is from the center of rotation.
We agree.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:53 AM   #117
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I had this discussion with my wife a few months ago. She said something like "I don't get why you'd want the engine behind you". The next time we were at the store, I loaded a case of water at the very front of the shopping cart, and had her push it for a couple of minutes. Then I slid the case to the back of the cart. It didn't exactly make my case for buying a new C8 but it sure did make steering the cart easier. It's a good way to get a feel for what a change in a polar moment does.

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