Walter Raulerson

Do the rules say they must run flat out in qualifying? Sounds like they ran their race and won

2cnd Chance

dcbingaman

Hi, Walt. The issue is not really qualifying. The Fords actually qualified a little slower that #3 C7.R by Jan M. The issue is how they performed at the Roar. At the Roar they are (theoretically) supposed to bring them at best tune right off the trailer and run the car as fast as they can so that IMSA can "calibrate" each car's performance to set a "Balance of Performance (BoP)" so that every car in the race is competitive.

IMSA then takes the data from the Roar and calculates "offsets" or penalties to each car to set the balance. These include engine restrictions like air inlet restrictor plates, max. allowable boost, weight, wing angle (to set the high speed aero. drag level), fuel tank capacity and even fuel inlet diameter to set refueling time. All very scientific. The car's are then run to qualify and to race.

The fly in the ointment is that the cars aren't GIVEN to IMSA to do the testing at the Roar, and so a car owner can dial the wick back a little to make the car seem slower than it really is, and, in turn, get a smaller "offset." On race day, the car then comes back to life.

Ganassi and Ford have a habit of understating their car's performance on "test day" and then letting her rip on race day. So yes, they did "run their race and then won", but if Doug Fehen had done the same thing, he would have slipped the crankshaft from a 6.2L in one of his C7.R's on race day to replace the 5.5L and it would have been no contest.

It's all an elaborate Kabuki dance. As a result the race's we are seeing don't really show the true potential of each car, and any conclusions people draw from this, (ie. ME is better than FE, turbos run better than NA, etc.), are suspect.

An example - for the last half of the 2017 GTLM season, the BMW M6's were the fastest dogs in the pack. They didn't win every race, but they were at or close to the pole at qualifying. This year, with a new 2018 M8 that should have been even FASTER than the very successful 2017 M6, BMW's GTLM's couldn't even beat the leading GTD cars. They are having "discussions" with IMSA about their BoP offsets. My guess is a lot of German profanity has been used so far - justifiably.

tw78911sc

IMSA busted and handed out 5 minute penalty box in the middle of the race for those cars that exceeded their BOP established at the ROAR. They watch for sand bagging and have the same data the teams have. Each race will get closer and closer after each event. I like how they can add weight, increase inlet diameter, slow fuel delivery or amount of fuel cell size. Corvettes will kill the Fords at a small torque track where aero doesn't mater, Porsche will kill at a wet track, and Ferrari are the gold standard that all other marks are held even to. The Ford is so stealthy and with as much WOT that Daytona has the GT is going to have an advantage. Chevy could run a mid engine platform w/o a production car, Porsche has no plans on making a 911 mid engine, IMSA/FIA didnt care. The new GT was delivered to to public until just recently but they raced it all last year. I'm back to liking IMSA series again, unlike F1 where the same two teams sit on the front row all season long.

rlhmarines

That 5 minute penalty was for a refueling rig that allowed the team to have faster pit stops due to increased fuel flow, the team thought they were in compliance but IMSA never tested the fueling restricter they gave to the team. The team had over a lap on the GTD field but went over a lap down from the penalty.

Mr-Guy

It's going to race at Daytona 2019, I spoke to a guy at Sebring that works with the cars...not a joke. They will have it before we do.

johnglenntwo

Possibly quite simple Frame moving over the OHV and stuff!

A few thousand C7 carcasses stacked up at the plant by the end of the year, and the C8 Z51 in production! Lean!

KnightDriveTV

I think the trend we are seeing, with IMSA/FIA and others giving some slippage to how soon the racecar needs to be in production, is that the roles are reversing...the race car debuts a while before the road car. I think this is a marketing push with the current racecar to streetcar approach. FordGT did it, the intent with the midship 911 RSR was for the Porsche 960 debut, the M8 clearly is out before the road car, and even the new Supra has debuted at Geneva as the homologated racecar first.

I think it is 100% likely we will see the C8R racing before it's on a car hauler to showrooms.

sunsalem

Not surprised.
In fact, if it wasn't the case, I would be surprised.

elegant

IF that Racer magazine article is correct and even it refers to it as ”rumors” and IF that Sebring person’s “information” turns out to be true....

We have seen so many rumors on top of rumors, all based on “inside” information. These rumor could be true, and yet might not be.

A key post above is the one by K.I.T.T., in which he correctly noted IMSA is starting to repeatedly give waivers to its own rule about racing “production cars.” And tying that in with Doug Fehan saying in Daytona, “we race what we sell,” this could mean that while the regular bodies ME starts to be sold to customers in the summer of 2019, with the wide-bodied HP coming one year later, that IMSA might allow GM racing to get the C8.R wide-bodied ME “early.” There is one more factor that fits with this scenario, and that is Doug Fehan re-stating recently that IMSA (other than for their changed/increased safety standards for all cars in a race class, that once IMSA accepts a brand’s race car, it may not be changed for a three year period.

Right now, I am not convinced either way as whether 2019 or 2020 calendar year is when we first see the ME based Corvette, for next year GM will also be making and selling C7’s, and as Doug said, “we race what we sell.”

As a wise man said, “believe it when I see it.”

johnglenntwo

Show me the performance!

Mr-Guy

It was IMSA, he had gotten into a heated debate with me present about the Ford GT and how it was approved by all the manufacturers to race, and how would you like it when the mid-engine corvette comes out and they say no? Then went on to say it will race Daytona 2019 and don't expect it to win that first year as they work the bugs out of it...I think it is close enough to announcement that they are starting to talk about it now.

Jeff V.

Sounds to me like speculation. Informed, well intended speculation, but speculation nonetheless.

Jeff V.

It's a complete coincidence that I stumbled on this, but I think it's relevant. It's Porsche Motorsport talking about their timelines for launching their new GT3 and GT4 racecars.

http://sportscar365.com/industry/arm...-gt3-gt4-cars/

It'd make sense that doing a competitive GTLM car would require even more lead time than GTD. So if the ME car is supposedly going to race at Daytona in 2019, they'll need to have it testing in the real world by late this year. Not the heavily camoed street car, but actual fully built, uncovered race cars with production-intent bodies, aero and powertrains, running in places where a whole lot of people will be able to see them. It'd be impossible to keep secret at that point. That means GM would need to make some kind of announcement, even if it's a "concept car", no later than the end of this summer.

sunsalem

IF the Corvette ME hits dealers in early 2019, Corvette Racing will be fielding an ME for the IMSA championship.
With that in mind, I would suspect 90% of the street ME Vette's details will be released before the 24 Hours of Daytona.

Shaka

IMSA publishes the entry full list in January 2019. Entry applications are a year in advance of the season even if the car is not even built. There is an approval process which is not made public. LeMans is two years advance for all classes.

elegant

The 24 Hour Daytona IMSA 2019 race is January 26th. All the information on the street 2020 ME Corvette will be released at its reveal 14 days earlier (which BTW, is 289 days from now).

However, while I think the following may be a long shot, still thinking that we could see a repeat “one lap” reveal of the race car (as was done with the C7.R), though this time just before Petit LeMans (Oct. 13th), another pull it out of the transporter, do one lap and drive directly into that same transporter. What a tease that would be, for while the race car would be different in many ways than the customer ME, it will still give us thousands of pics and posts to fixate on — and what better customer version tease than something roughly the same ME in some ways, yet also clearly different.

tw78911sc

Lexus, BMW M8, Ford GT, Acura NSX all of them have been granted exemptions that cars are allowed based on good faith that production cars would roll within year or so. If they don't reveal the ME soon, no way anything will race until the end race or two of 2018 like Penske did at Petit Last year to get a jump on Daytona. Then they have to have time to establish the BOP at the ROAR before the 24. So GM would have to make a formal release pretty soon although I'm sure Pratt and Whitney have already gotten all the specs and have already started work. Not sure if changing models mid year impacts season points. Not like any production parts will be used

Jeff V.

Doug Fehan has said they can only homologate a car once every three years. The 2020 race season would be the next window they have to introduce a new car.

tw78911sc

Great point, they are screwed unless they change the BOP for them. GM certainly can do that in the US, but no chance in France.