Go Back  CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion > C8 Corvette > C8 General Discussion
Reload this Page >

What’s the probability that the C8 will be AWD ?

C8 General Discussion The place to discuss the next generation of Corvette, be it mid-engine, Zora, or whatever form it may take.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

What’s the probability that the C8 will be AWD ?

 
Old 01-14-2018, 06:00 PM
  #1  
onfire
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Nov 1999
Location: Abingdon VA
Posts: 1,220
Liked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Default What’s the probability that the C8 will be AWD ?

10% ?
onfire is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 06:05 PM
  #2  
elegant
CF Senior Member
 
elegant's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,967
Liked 1,654 Times in 794 Posts
Default

You are asking for a wild guess, but as you asked, 0% in year one; 35% possibility in the top of the line ZORA version in year 3.

Last edited by elegant; 01-14-2018 at 06:05 PM.
elegant is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 06:32 PM
  #3  
PurpleLion
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Dec 2017
Posts: 228
Liked 84 Times in 53 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by elegant View Post
You are asking for a wild guess, but as you asked, 0% in year one; 35% possibility in the top of the line ZORA version in year 3.
0% - all wheel drive on a properly designed mid engine sports car is a bad idea.

Besides, when (if) electric assist is added, it will power the front wheels which would replace any front wheel drive mechanism if it were present. This would waste the work done implementing AWD!
PurpleLion is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:03 PM
  #4  
sunsalem
CF Senior Member
 
sunsalem's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2014
Posts: 9,499
Liked 1,377 Times in 1,042 Posts
Default

ME C8: 20%
IF there is a Cadillac ME: 80%
sunsalem is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:23 PM
  #5  
NoOne
CF Senior Member
 
NoOne's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 1999
Location: Auburn Hills MI
Posts: 26,552
Liked 147 Times in 103 Posts
Default

Gas version 0 percent.

Hybrid Electric, 100 percent.
NoOne is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by NoOne:
Boiler_81 (01-14-2018), msm859 (01-14-2018)
Old 01-14-2018, 07:25 PM
  #6  
MikeG37
CF Senior Member
 
MikeG37's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Hernando MS
Posts: 1,264
Liked 334 Times in 193 Posts
Default

Based on the CAD drawings: 0%
MikeG37 is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:27 PM
  #7  
onfire
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Nov 1999
Location: Abingdon VA
Posts: 1,220
Liked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Default

AWD is the future for Super Cars. Already happening on the high end rides. Will be interesting to watch GM.
onfire is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:27 PM
  #8  
elegant
CF Senior Member
 
elegant's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,967
Liked 1,654 Times in 794 Posts
Default

I expect, similar to the C5, C6 and C7 roll-outs, that first we will see an entry ME, then additional versions/models over time. Don Sherman in his recent article specifically noted that, i.e., “It will first appear as a two-seat hatchback, with open editions to follow.” I would similarly expect motor progression, first the entry LT1 powered model, though again as Sherman suggested. over time we will see more, i.e., “Other propulsion sources will follow, topping out at 1000-plus hybrid horsepower, with a twin-turbo V-8 driving the rear wheels and an electric motor powering the front wheels.”

Hence why I suggested that for year “1,” I would not expect AWD, but with my cloudy-crystal-ball, I gave AWD a 35% chance by the third year.

Last edited by elegant; 01-14-2018 at 08:34 PM.
elegant is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 09:28 PM
  #9  
OnPoint
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
OnPoint's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2015 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 18,257
Liked 1,857 Times in 1,079 Posts
Default

I really hope one can get the top TT engine without the hybrid electric.
OnPoint is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by OnPoint:
conceptmachine (02-02-2018), elegant (01-14-2018)
Old 01-14-2018, 10:06 PM
  #10  
Corvette#2
CF Senior Member
 
Corvette#2's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 2,435
Liked 93 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
0% - all wheel drive on a properly designed mid engine sports car is a bad idea.

Why is that ? Just asking because I know some Lamborghini models have AWD.
Corvette#2 is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:20 PM
  #11  
msm859
CF Senior Member
 
msm859's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 1,755
Liked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OnPoint View Post
I really hope one can get the top TT engine without the hybrid electric.
Why? It would still be slower.
msm859 is offline  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:34 PM
  #12  
Speednet
CF Senior Member
 
Speednet's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Bridgewater NJ
Posts: 1,738
Liked 291 Times in 158 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
0% - all wheel drive on a properly designed mid engine sports car is a bad idea.
Pardon my bluntness, but you, sir, have NO CLUE.

You are saying that all of the following cars are not "properly designed":
  • Audi R8
  • Bugatti 18/3 Chiron
  • Bugatti EB 110
  • Bugatti Veyron
  • Acura NSX (second generation)
  • Lamborghini Aventador
  • Lamborghini Diablo
  • Lamborghini Huracán
  • Lamborghini Murciélago
  • Lamborghini Reventón
  • Lamborghini Sesto Elemento
  • Lamborghini Veneno
  • Porsche 918 Spyder
  • Trion Nemesis
And I have left many out!

A mid-engine AWD configuration is IDEAL. There is nothing wrong with a mid-engine Corvette not initially having AWD, but it is most certainly something to aspire to and eventually gain.

I can't wait to hear the loud chorus of the handful of people who inevitably will complain about the added weight of AWD. Those same people complain about the 10 ounces added because I have ventilated seats, so they will be ignored by me every time. The Porsche 918 is one of the fastest (THE fastest?) production car to lap the Nürburgring, and it not only has AWD, but heavy batteries and two different electric motors. The "weight" argument is ridiculous and wrong.

Last edited by Speednet; 01-14-2018 at 10:36 PM.
Speednet is offline  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:03 AM
  #13  
PurpleLion
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Dec 2017
Posts: 228
Liked 84 Times in 53 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Speednet View Post
Pardon my bluntness, but you, sir, have NO CLUE.
Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
Besides, when (if) electric assist is added, it will power the front wheels which would replace any front wheel drive mechanism if it were present. This would waste the work done implementing AWD!
Note, perhaps I should have been more specific. Using electric motors on the front wheels (918, Acura NSX) as I suggested for the C8 does qualify as AWD and I do expect that this configuration will be offered at some point in the C8's development.

The Bugatti variations have so much horsepower that I don't believe that they had any option except to use AWD.

The layout used by the remaining cars on your list require a mechanical means to channel power from the mid mounted engine to the front wheels. This requires additional weight, does not provide the instantaneous torque of an electric motor and would just have to be removed with the addition of front drive electric motors.

Re the remaining cars, Lamborghini adopted AWD before the advent of electronic traction control so that their cars would under-steer off the road when driven by their inept customers as opposed to spinning off the road which a pure RWD mid engine car would be more apt to do.

From a design standpoint, I think that what I am mostly talking about is the management of front tire slip angles vs rear tire slip angles in the various drive modes. I am not a mechanical engineer so I will leave this part of the discussion to someone else. Please note however that electric power to the front wheels can be added / removed very easily according to the whims of an electronic traction control system (this becomes much more difficult with a mechanical front wheel drive system).

If you search these forums, you will find at least one Lamborghini customer that removed the AWD drive from his car and thereby improved the handling of his car! I just guess that I belong in the more purist Ferrari / McLaren camp!

Last edited by PurpleLion; 01-15-2018 at 12:04 AM.
PurpleLion is offline  
Old 01-15-2018, 01:11 AM
  #14  
sunsalem
CF Senior Member
 
sunsalem's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2014
Posts: 9,499
Liked 1,377 Times in 1,042 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OnPoint View Post
I really hope one can get the top TT engine without the hybrid electric.
They could do what McLaren did with their P1 and Ferrari did with their LaFerrari and add a token electric motor to the rear drive.

Originally Posted by Speednet View Post
  • Audi R8
  • Bugatti 18/3 Chiron
  • Bugatti EB 110
  • Bugatti Veyron
  • Acura NSX (second generation)
  • Lamborghini Aventador
  • Lamborghini Diablo
  • Lamborghini Huracán
  • Lamborghini Murciélago
  • Lamborghini Reventón
  • Lamborghini Sesto Elemento
  • Lamborghini Veneno
  • Porsche 918 Spyder
  • Trion Nemesis
The FUTURE?
Hmmm....

1) Audi R8 is part of the traditional Quattro AWD family that began in 1980. As an Audi, the R8 wouldn't be anything BUT all wheel drive.
2) Bugatti's 1,000 + hp cars had to be AWD or VW would have ended up in court defended themselves from dead owner's estates.
3) Acura NSX (second generation) is AWD because Acura wanted a tame (Honda is no risk taker) hybrid to advertise the technology for their commuter cars.
4) Lamborghini traditionally has been AWD (like Audi), no surprise here.
5) Porsche has been using AWD on some of their high-end models for quite awhile. The 918 Spyder was a limited edition car that is no longer manufactured.
6) Trion Nemesis...never heard of it, doesn't count.

High-end RWD supercars are still alive and well, thank you: Ferrari, McLaren, Aston Martin, MB, etc.
sunsalem is offline  
The following users liked this post: sunsalem
PurpleLion (01-15-2018)
Old 01-15-2018, 10:05 AM
  #15  
OnPoint
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
OnPoint's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2015 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 18,257
Liked 1,857 Times in 1,079 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by msm859 View Post
Why? It would still be slower.
Cuz I'd like to have one more new all-engine Corvette, particularly in ME configuration before the electrics take over the world.

I fully realize the performance benefits of the hybrid electric/ICE configuration. I also enjoy the purity of an all-engine rig, and it's apparent time is short for those. Thus, I hope I can get the top hp engine in the new ME w/out the hybrid set-up. Will be plenty of time later to be immersed in electrics.
OnPoint is offline  
The following users liked this post: OnPoint
PurpleLion (01-15-2018)
Old 01-15-2018, 10:36 AM
  #16  
rgregory
CF Senior Member
 
rgregory's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Arlington TX
Posts: 7,777
Liked 71 Times in 49 Posts
Default

I really hope the stick with 2wd for the main design. Keep it light and make it fun and make it my next new Vette to purchase.

Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
Note, perhaps I should have been more specific. Using electric motors on the front wheels (918, Acura NSX) as I suggested for the C8 does qualify as AWD and I do expect that this configuration will be offered at some point in the C8's development.

The Bugatti variations have so much horsepower that I don't believe that they had any option except to use AWD.

The layout used by the remaining cars on your list require a mechanical means to channel power from the mid mounted engine to the front wheels. This requires additional weight, does not provide the instantaneous torque of an electric motor and would just have to be removed with the addition of front drive electric motors.

Re the remaining cars, Lamborghini adopted AWD before the advent of electronic traction control so that their cars would under-steer off the road when driven by their inept customers as opposed to spinning off the road which a pure RWD mid engine car would be more apt to do.

From a design standpoint, I think that what I am mostly talking about is the management of front tire slip angles vs rear tire slip angles in the various drive modes. I am not a mechanical engineer so I will leave this part of the discussion to someone else. Please note however that electric power to the front wheels can be added / removed very easily according to the whims of an electronic traction control system (this becomes much more difficult with a mechanical front wheel drive system).

If you search these forums, you will find at least one Lamborghini customer that removed the AWD drive from his car and thereby improved the handling of his car! I just guess that I belong in the more purist Ferrari / McLaren camp!
I agree (I am a mechanical engineer) and I am the one that converted his Lambo to not longer be awd. I too feel Electric for the front is much more logical way to go, though I hope that is just an option.

The issue with the older AWD systems in the Lambo is that the front does not get power until the rear starts to slip it has a viscous coupling that needs slip before it transfers power. So it didn't even help in a corner since it would not get power to the front until the rear was slipping and to be honest it felt weird to me when it kicked in. I have not driven a newer model but I would hope the newer ones work better.

McLaren doesn't use AWD and they have cars now that run in the 9's in the 1/4 from the factory, the 720s. They clearly can put the power down with 2wd. I drove a 570s (they run in the 10s) and loved it though the 720 is another level I would like to experience.
rgregory is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by rgregory:
PurpleLion (01-15-2018), sunsalem (01-15-2018)
Old 01-15-2018, 11:20 AM
  #17  
RedLS6
CF Senior Member
 
RedLS6's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2003
Location: Cary NC
Posts: 710
Liked 58 Times in 39 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
From a design standpoint, I think that what I am mostly talking about is the management of front tire slip angles vs rear tire slip angles in the various drive modes. I am not a mechanical engineer so I will leave this part of the discussion to someone else. Please note however that electric power to the front wheels can be added / removed very easily according to the whims of an electronic traction control system (this becomes much more difficult with a mechanical front wheel drive system).
I have a feeling that the only way they would add AWD would be the electric option; no mechanical connection as you pointed out. The traction control system could be integrated a number of ways; using dual electric motors, one for each front wheel, with dual drives would also inherently allow front torque vectoring.

There's tradeoffs both ways. The electrics add weight over the front, increases front weight bias. Hurts braking performance and impacts load transfer under braking assuming the Cg is where it usually is vertically, fronts have to do more work under braking assuming weight bias and braking load transfer to the front increases. Rotational inertia increases.

On the flip side, rear-weight biased ME cars sometimes tend to push (understeer) more on throttle-on corner exit, as the acceleration unloads the front tires even more. Motors on the front can balance some of this and also allow the fronts to vector some added torque to the outside front.

I hope they offer the 850-hp ME ICE version by itself, and then the hybrid version separately. They will appeal to two different groups of people. The hybrid may not be for the lighter-weight purists, but I'd bet it would be a hoot to drive on the street with 2-3 hundred more horsepower. For the track, YMMV.

Last edited by RedLS6; 01-15-2018 at 11:47 AM.
RedLS6 is offline  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:52 AM
  #18  
blb078
CF Senior Member
 
blb078's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2017
Location: Wentzville MO & Port Charlotte, FL
Posts: 217
Liked 73 Times in 39 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rgregory View Post
I really hope the stick with 2wd for the main design. Keep it light and make it fun and make it my next new Vette to purchase.



I agree (I am a mechanical engineer) and I am the one that converted his Lambo to not longer be awd. I too feel Electric for the front is much more logical way to go, though I hope that is just an option.

The issue with the older AWD systems in the Lambo is that the front does not get power until the rear starts to slip it has a viscous coupling that needs slip before it transfers power. So it didn't even help in a corner since it would not get power to the front until the rear was slipping and to be honest it felt weird to me when it kicked in. I have not driven a newer model but I would hope the newer ones work better.

McLaren doesn't use AWD and they have cars now that run in the 9's in the 1/4 from the factory, the 720s. They clearly can put the power down with 2wd. I drove a 570s (they run in the 10s) and loved it though the 720 is another level I would like to experience.
You really can't compare older AWD systems to newer ones. You wouldn't compare older transmissions or any other part of the drivetrain to a newer one. So far four production cars have done the ring in under 7 minutes. 3 of the 4 are AWD cars, that doesn't mean AWD is better though because the one that isn't AWD so far has the fastest time. That doesn't mean RWD is better either. The McLaren 720s while it goes fast in a straight line which all McLaren's do, it wouldn't stand a change at Nuremburg against the Huracan Perforamante, it just doesn't have the areo and isn't setup as a track car like the Performante is. In the end it's whatever the end goal of the manufacture is and how they setup/build the car. Neither is better or worse and both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Do I think the C8 will be AWD, nope, that just seems like to much of an undertaking while also testing a new mid engine design.
blb078 is offline  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:04 PM
  #19  
firstvettesoon
CF Senior Member
 
firstvettesoon's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,640
Liked 1,383 Times in 522 Posts
Default

I do not have personal experience with an AWD supercar but I have watched several reviews and it seems the drivers really "appreciate" the AWD and can feel the difference. Maybe doesn't help in a straight line drag race but seems to be beneficial on a road course...and seems to help getting off the line quicker.

Being a clean sheet design, I see no reason AWD, AWS or RWS would not also be considered. As some have said, maybe it will be offered down the road as it phases to hybrid.?

Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-15-2018 at 12:06 PM.
firstvettesoon is offline  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:05 PM
  #20  
z06801
CF Senior Member
 
z06801's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: NSL UT
Posts: 1,778
Liked 49 Times in 44 Posts
Default

I know of a lot of people who have pulled the AWD out of their Lambos and Porsche turbos, my 911 turbo was much better on track in my opinion with it removed. The GT2RS was faster around the ring with its RWD than the 918, two completely different cars of course, just saying you don't need AWD to go around a corner fast.
z06801 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: What’s the probability that the C8 will be AWD ?


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: