Arguments For and Against the Corvette's Turbocharger Evolution
03-08-2018, 03:54 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Nate@VanBortelChevy
FWIW GM will give us what we want. Whether it be big displacement, electric motors, turbos, or supercharger. The determination comes to the gas guzzler tax and how willing the consumer is to pay it. The gov slaps GM with a tax or fine if their fleet average falls below the EPA's guidelines, this tax or fee is passed on to the consumer via the gas guzzler tax. If it makes GM the most money, that is likely the route we will go.
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Nate@VanBortelChevy (03-09-2018)
03-09-2018, 04:41 AM
#22
I look at it like this. Its all about the sound. F1 tried this and failed. Even with 2x the milage (<< throws up a little) and 900+HP, very few were happy with the small displacement energy recovery turbo engines. Even though it is superior in many ways, they simply did not make the sound F1 fans expect. Even adding the wastegate noise honker didn't help. Playing cards between the spokes simply doesn't cut it.
Imagine if Nascar went turbo? lol... not evah.
The LT4 and LT5 well.. nah.. neither makes muscle car noises and adding a supercharger that has to poke through the hood seems so aftermarket bolt-on.
Now the LS7.... It grinds, groans, has wonderful valve noise and revs like there's no tomorrow all the time making race car noises at any throttle position. Head supplier tolerances aside, the 427 is truly iconic and screams American muscle.
Imagine if Nascar went turbo? lol... not evah.
The LT4 and LT5 well.. nah.. neither makes muscle car noises and adding a supercharger that has to poke through the hood seems so aftermarket bolt-on.
Now the LS7.... It grinds, groans, has wonderful valve noise and revs like there's no tomorrow all the time making race car noises at any throttle position. Head supplier tolerances aside, the 427 is truly iconic and screams American muscle.
03-09-2018, 05:33 AM
#23
Very good argument for NA!
Tadge covered this rather extensively...
With the C7 Z06 he had to go quite a bit up in power, save gas AND give us a warranty... and...and...and....and....
The LS7 @100+ HP per liter is awesome! but it seems these days, for sales, folks prefer horsepower numbers to decibel sound....
Tadge covered this rather extensively...
With the C7 Z06 he had to go quite a bit up in power, save gas AND give us a warranty... and...and...and....and....
The LS7 @100+ HP per liter is awesome! but it seems these days, for sales, folks prefer horsepower numbers to decibel sound....
I look at it like this. Its all about the sound. F1 tried this and failed. Even with 2x the milage (<< throws up a little) and 900+HP, very few were happy with the small displacement energy recovery turbo engines. Even though it is superior in many ways, they simply did not make the sound F1 fans expect. Even adding the wastegate noise honker didn't help. Playing cards between the spokes simply doesn't cut it.
Imagine if Nascar went turbo? lol... not evah.
The LT4 and LT5 well.. nah.. neither makes muscle car noises and adding a supercharger that has to poke through the hood seems so aftermarket bolt-on.
Now the LS7.... It grinds, groans, has wonderful valve noise and revs like there's no tomorrow all the time making race car noises at any throttle position. Head supplier tolerances aside, the 427 is truly iconic and screams American muscle.
Imagine if Nascar went turbo? lol... not evah.
The LT4 and LT5 well.. nah.. neither makes muscle car noises and adding a supercharger that has to poke through the hood seems so aftermarket bolt-on.
Now the LS7.... It grinds, groans, has wonderful valve noise and revs like there's no tomorrow all the time making race car noises at any throttle position. Head supplier tolerances aside, the 427 is truly iconic and screams American muscle.
Last edited by Telepierre; 03-09-2018 at 08:52 AM.
03-09-2018, 06:17 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
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RoketRdr (03-11-2018)
03-09-2018, 06:34 AM
#25
This. One of the biggest challenges in adding a turbo is packaging. But a car that's already configured for one from the factory? Now that's easy. Take the Supra's for example. They have been making 1000+ hp from a 6cyl long before it was cool. And in a more modern context, Mercedes has normal sedans that reliably make 45# of boost just getting grandma to church on Sunday, on pump gas. Turbocharging has come a looooong way!
Problem is "we" don't drive like grandma to church...
03-10-2018, 03:23 AM
#27
It just needs to hold a decent amount of torque to redline, so that the power peak occurs near redline as well. Hopefully with a power curve that climbs relatively linearly.
My GTI had a turbo that ran out of steam early, so it was great around town but when you went to wind it out, the top end was a real let down.
The Mustang Ecoboost is similar. I looked at the power curve on that car and to optimize the acceleration you'd actually short shift (I think around 5500 RPM).
That's no fun in a sports car, IMO.
As long as they can make it sound awesome, and make it run through the RPM range without feeling weak at the top end, I'd be OK with turbos.
BTW, count me as a long time F1 fan extremely disappointed with the lame sounding turbo engines. It's not a volume issue, but rather one of frequency and harmonics.
-T
My GTI had a turbo that ran out of steam early, so it was great around town but when you went to wind it out, the top end was a real let down.
The Mustang Ecoboost is similar. I looked at the power curve on that car and to optimize the acceleration you'd actually short shift (I think around 5500 RPM).
That's no fun in a sports car, IMO.
As long as they can make it sound awesome, and make it run through the RPM range without feeling weak at the top end, I'd be OK with turbos.
BTW, count me as a long time F1 fan extremely disappointed with the lame sounding turbo engines. It's not a volume issue, but rather one of frequency and harmonics.
-T
Last edited by Trackaholic; 03-10-2018 at 03:24 AM.
03-10-2018, 03:45 AM
#28
If this was a perfect world and I was appointed God, I would dispense with turbos.
Unfortunately, neither is true and I am certain we are going to have turbochargers in Corvettes sometime soon.
Acceptance is hard...but we have to accept the inevitability.
Hopefully, GM will build a great system.
Unfortunately, neither is true and I am certain we are going to have turbochargers in Corvettes sometime soon.
Acceptance is hard...but we have to accept the inevitability.
Hopefully, GM will build a great system.
03-10-2018, 05:27 AM
#29
So my Mercedes v12 engine is the same size as the Corvette engine. The car weighs 5300 pounds. The corvette weights about 3200 pounds. The Mercedes is close to being as fast as the corvette and you dont even realize there are two turbos driving the engine.
03-10-2018, 10:29 AM
#30
or C6Z06?
Agree the merc power curve and delivery of this particular engine is very smooth (in both 550 and 622HP form) but since you mentioned weight...when you have a chance open the hood of both cars and peek at the engine sizes..
That V12 makes the Viper V10 engine look like a midget... :-)
Last edited by Telepierre; 03-10-2018 at 10:31 AM.
03-21-2018, 10:14 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
Done!
If this was a perfect world and I was appointed God, I would dispense with turbos.
Unfortunately, neither is true and I am certain we are going to have turbochargers in Corvettes sometime soon.
Acceptance is hard...but we have to accept the inevitability.
Hopefully, GM will build a great system.
Unfortunately, neither is true and I am certain we are going to have turbochargers in Corvettes sometime soon.
Acceptance is hard...but we have to accept the inevitability.
Hopefully, GM will build a great system.
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 03-21-2018 at 10:18 PM.
03-22-2018, 12:21 AM
#32
Race Director
I prefer the LT1 motor for the base corvette c8.
Dohc twin turbos I'm sure are great motors.
I just prefer a 500 hp engine that's proven inexpensive and reliable power plants for me.
The LS motors in my 3 corvettes have been so reliable and inexpensive to maintain...durability of GM small blocks are most impressive to me and they produce a nice power to weight ratios...
Dohc twin turbos I'm sure are great motors.
I just prefer a 500 hp engine that's proven inexpensive and reliable power plants for me.
The LS motors in my 3 corvettes have been so reliable and inexpensive to maintain...durability of GM small blocks are most impressive to me and they produce a nice power to weight ratios...
03-22-2018, 12:46 AM
#33
Le Mans Master
Agreed!
I prefer the LT1 motor for the base corvette c8.
Dohc twin turbos I'm sure are great motors.
I just prefer a 500 hp engine that's proven inexpensive and reliable power plants for me.
The LS motors in my 3 corvettes have been so reliable and inexpensive to maintain...durability of GM small blocks are most impressive to me and they produce a nice power to weight ratios...
Dohc twin turbos I'm sure are great motors.
I just prefer a 500 hp engine that's proven inexpensive and reliable power plants for me.
The LS motors in my 3 corvettes have been so reliable and inexpensive to maintain...durability of GM small blocks are most impressive to me and they produce a nice power to weight ratios...
Perfect for the race car! I read last week the competitors argue with its low COG. Good!
Then again...V8TT!?
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 03-22-2018 at 12:49 AM.
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JerriVette (03-22-2018)
06-25-2019, 12:22 PM
#34
Yep C5 is best, at least in my book, only one that has leg room @6'9. Can barley squeeze in a C6 and no way to get in a 7. Look like Lurch in a C3 not to mention opening the door to use the clutch,LOL
06-25-2019, 12:42 PM
#35
Safety Car
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In terms of performance there's nothing wrong with turbos. My CTS VSport does 0-60 in 4.1, and has 420hp, not quite what the Vette will do, but it actually feels faster (because M7 vs A8). The pickup is amazing and not like the turbos of yore where there was a lag. This dual setup has no lag at all. Unless you are enamored with the V8 rumble, turbos can do the job. Of course, it's a "No more round taillights; the world is ending!" kind of scenario. Just wait until the 'Lectric Vette shows up (C9).
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BEAR-AvHistory (06-25-2019)
06-25-2019, 01:22 PM
#36
Think about normal street usage where 90%+ of the Corvettes live not just the track handling. A 4200LB BMW M5 4.4L TT 4 door sedan at about 600bhp will pretty much run a Super Charged 6.2L ZR1 dead even in a 1/4 mile. After that the 755BHP ZR1 shows its power & pulls away. The M5 will show its license plate to a GS.
06-29-2019, 01:06 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
Like Harley Davidson the buyers of the Corvette for the most part are baby boomers. It is no surprise that they will NOT be around as buyers for much longer so with that said it is totally understandable for Chevy to change the Corvette to appeal to a younger group of potential buyers.
06-29-2019, 03:48 PM
#38
IMO if you watch Porsche, there are two (at least) characteristics at "war"
manual vs some other type of trans
Turbo vs NA engines.
The solution is not driven by science but by how science can be used to satisfy the product definition within the constraints of consumer preference and regularity requirements.
IMO, the regularity requirements are not as difficult to satisfy as the consumer preference as the latter is driven by competing and shifting choices, subjective in nature and defended by rationalizing that emotional decision. .
So, what is a sports car, especially from the point of view of trans and engine?
manual vs some other type of trans
Turbo vs NA engines.
The solution is not driven by science but by how science can be used to satisfy the product definition within the constraints of consumer preference and regularity requirements.
IMO, the regularity requirements are not as difficult to satisfy as the consumer preference as the latter is driven by competing and shifting choices, subjective in nature and defended by rationalizing that emotional decision. .
So, what is a sports car, especially from the point of view of trans and engine?
Last edited by Kodiak Bear; 06-29-2019 at 03:51 PM.
