formulaWA

After reading the recent article about the ZR-1 beating the new Ford GTs time around the Virginia track

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ir-lap-record/


it got me to thinking. The C7 was an excellent car built on a relatively modest budget. Given it's track records I wonder if GM might have trouble getting it's new mid engine to beat the performance of the C7?

sunsalem

Nope.
Remember, there will be different performance models just as there is with the C7.
Currently, we have Stingray, GS, Z06, ZR1.
Expect a similar situation with the ME.

NY09C6

I'd expect the current c7 zr1 to outperform the base model c8. But eventually the equivalent level c8 will out perform it.

Quinten33

senah

not unless 850 hp t/t with 1500 potential is a shortfall.

formulaWA

I know mid engine cars do have certain physics advantages but I guess I am looking at a cost is no object, half a million dollar mid engine sports car built specifically to be the best performer there is that was beaten by a 5 year front engine rear wheel drive design that was engineered within the compromises necessary to create a platform that was a trackable sports car and yet at the same time also be able to be a relatively affordable mass produced performance car.

Bill Dearborn

I suspect the ZR1 time was helped by two things speed (on front and back straight) and a fantastic charge through the uphill Esses where handling is paramount. Mero entered at 157 mph and lost about 10 mph while going through the next two turns. The Z06 MRC upgrade video showed him running a 147 mph entry speed into the Esses but it dropped about 15 mph through the next two turns. I suspect the added downforce on the ZR1 has a lot to do with the increase in speed as he isn't near WOT with either car while running that section of the track.

Bill

RapidC84B

Bill got it right... all the time at VIR is in the esses and South Bend and the end of the back straight which you don't run in Grand configuration. Mero nailed the esses with massive speed and having 755 horse on tap to hit 170 on the front straight is a big help at VIR.

I don't think the C7ZR1 would beat the FGT at every track, but one like VIR which plays to it's strengths is a big help.

Like every Corvette generation before it, the base C8 will be trumped by the performance C7s, then the performance C8s will trickle out and move the bar.

That said, as a HPDE instructor, if these cars get any faster I will have to re-think teaching... I don't want to be in the car with joe blow who just ponied up for a car that can goo 170 out there. If I were instructing someone like this in HPDE 1 or 2 I'd implement a 120-130 mph speed limit

Bob U

Agree

stevebz06

rgregory

Not at all. So the ZR-1 beat the GT, the ZR-1 has 100+ more HP and the gaudy big spoiler package. The GT with the same power would be much faster even without the huge spoilers of the Vette. How does the z06 with similar power do there?

jimmyb

You can't really do it that way (the "what if" game)....the ZR1 was a stock car....the Ford GT was a stock car. The ZR1 has more horsepower from the factory, and it went faster, period.
The Z06 was 1.15 seconds SLOWER than the GT (and it was a manual). Now, put ZR1 aero on an A8 Z06 and then what happens? See, you can play "what if" all day long

Shaka

Yeah. Done with push rods and leaf springs and no DCT. Too bad they got rid of those wooden floor boards.

dcbingaman

If a frog had wings its little a$$ wouldn't bump on the ground. The Ford GT has a crappy Ecoboost V-6, and NO ROOM for anything bigger. The ZR1 has a BIG V-8 with much more HP potential. In the grand scheme of things chassis layout ALWAYS takes second place to HP/Weight. ME's win races in HP-limited performance classes. The jury is out when HP is NOT restricted. In Can-Am both where everything was effectively unlimited, most of the cars were mid-engine, BUT the highest HP car always won.

Mark Donahue was once asked by the Porsche engineers how much HP was enough for the monster Porsche 917-30 spyder. Bad question. Donahue's response was he had enough when he could light up the rear tires the entire length of the Mulsanne Straight (about 3 miles).

rgregory

I know what you are saying. To me the gaudy wing package makes the car look ricerish. It is still a street car, not a race car. If I had my choice between 2 cars that were within 1 second of speed on that size track I would take the one without the boy racer huge wing. I know the GT is super expensive but it is also way more elegant. I would take the ZR1 without the wing package before with it.

dcbingaman

You realize that when Ford actually wants to race their car (GTLM) they get rid of the toy actuated wing and mount a much bigger, "gaudier" elevated rear wing just like the ZR1 and the C7.R.

There is a thin line between "elegant" and "gimmick".

rgregory

Yes that is my exact point... that is a race car not a street car. Also active areodynamics are likely not legal.

dcbingaman

For driving on the street as a GT, there really is no material difference between the useable power of a C7 Z51 or C7 Grand Sport and a Z06 or ZR1. There is no rational argument for having a car go from a stop to the legal speed limit within 3.0 vs. 3.6 seconds. Same for top speed - 190 mph vs. 215 ? Who cares ?

The track is an entirely different situation. Most ZR1's will spend little time on the street and a lot of time on the track. The same is true for the Ford GT. In fact, according to every car review I have read, the Ford GT is so compromised as a "GT" that it is likely you will NEVER see one on the street, because it will be in a car carrier headed to a track for some fun.

"Elegance" has no purpose in a race car OR a purpose-built track car. I will bet the performance variant of the Ford GT that they are now talking up, (because, in the words of philosopher and singer, Mick Jagger, "too much is never enough"), the actuated rear wing will be replaced by the track-proven fixed high wing - just like in the ZR1, because it can create more down force at lower drag than the contrivance they have on the base car. That is why GM put one on the C7.R and the ZR1. It may not be "elegant", but it is damned effective.

Paulchristian

I don’t think you have to worry about a performance shortfall. I would be very surprised if the high performance variant of the mid engine car is not more capable than the C7 ZR1. If it isn’t, That a lot of engineering change for nothing really. Pressure is on.

RapidC84B