What would an average MSRP of $85K+ do to Corvette sales numbers?
02-14-2018, 12:14 PM
#21
Safety Car
Want to buy a new Ferrari? Their typical buyer waits three years. Instead GM has oft-repeated its recent pattern of having massing employee overtime the first two years of its new generation (in fact for the C6, they trained and hired a new shift, only to later let them go), and perhaps GM will instead think of and execute a more intelligent/more cost effective way of producing Corvettes where supply only equals demand.
GM has actually started down that road, for the revised Plant (as of November 1st), now can only produce 24,000 Corvettes per year (17.2 units/hour now reduced to 11.6 Corvettes per hour) without overtime, and even with the paint shop “at redline”(Kai’s term), the Plant can only produce 14 Corvettes per hour (that is its physical capacity limit).
What if there is demand for 42,000 ME’s in year one, but GM only produces its 33,000 “current Plant max” units, leaving 9,000 customers at the the head of the cue for year two production? And what if with ZORA additionally coming in year two, GM is again unable to meet total 2021 model year ME demand?
In his August 29, 2017 video on Plant right sizing (here on this forum thanks to jagamajajaran and also still on YouTube), Kai talked about tailoring future production capacity to actual generational demand.
02-14-2018, 12:28 PM
#22
I tend to believe that GM will always offer the FE layout. I don't see them giving it up, even if a camaro can offer more performance. This ME design is just another offering IMO. If it is the case, we can have the 50K+ FE, while a 100K+ ME can still sell, as long as its a good value.
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Rapid Fred (02-16-2018)
02-14-2018, 01:22 PM
#23
Racer
Coorect,
So I read somewhere that the C8 may well be a mid-engine Corvette (the Zora may wind up being the C8 according to this speculation) and that the base price would ramp from the current $56K to $80K+. Hey, GM can do whatever they want, but if the average MSRP on a Corvette really goes that high (that's the base car they're talking about @ $80K+, there will be pricier versions), there is no chance GM is going to sell 30-40,000 of them annually in my view. Out of reach for that many sports car buyers. First off, there aren't that many sports cars buyers to begin with. The Corvette has always been an aspirational car (I aspired to own one, finally got there @ age 58), and guys like me get a few bucks together when they're older and many of them S T R E T C H to buy the car. I did. I wouldn't have even tried if the car had been $20K higher.
I think an awful lot of Corvette buyers are like me. I think if they really go that high on pricing they'll be lucky to sell 20K units annually. Maybe GM would prefer a higher demographic buyer and higher profit per car, but I think they would be better served to dish up a C8 version that has a window sticker closer to today's car for a number of reasons. Then they can have a couple of pricier models with a little more power, etc.
Cars are discretionary purchases, and I overcame my logic to buy this car. Because make no mistake, there are few dumber ways of flushing money down the toilet than blowing $60K than buying any brand new car. So it better make you happy. And my car does. But there are limits to my abilities to suspend sound monetary policy. So they'll lose some sales to guys who think like I do and others to guys who just can't come up with the dough, because every $10K you go north on price over a certain point reduces your buyer pool exponentially.
It is fascinating to watch this unfold. But my hope would be for a base model that carries a base price no higher than say $60K.
I think an awful lot of Corvette buyers are like me. I think if they really go that high on pricing they'll be lucky to sell 20K units annually. Maybe GM would prefer a higher demographic buyer and higher profit per car, but I think they would be better served to dish up a C8 version that has a window sticker closer to today's car for a number of reasons. Then they can have a couple of pricier models with a little more power, etc.
Cars are discretionary purchases, and I overcame my logic to buy this car. Because make no mistake, there are few dumber ways of flushing money down the toilet than blowing $60K than buying any brand new car. So it better make you happy. And my car does. But there are limits to my abilities to suspend sound monetary policy. So they'll lose some sales to guys who think like I do and others to guys who just can't come up with the dough, because every $10K you go north on price over a certain point reduces your buyer pool exponentially.
It is fascinating to watch this unfold. But my hope would be for a base model that carries a base price no higher than say $60K.
If GM raises their base price to $85K I too will not purchase one. Too much money to throw away on a car.
I believe the first batch that comes out will be much higher then we think. The following year if they are smart to build a lower base price for us average corvette enthusiast. The last indication of the C8 name was Zora.
02-14-2018, 01:49 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
I think this makes a lot of sense to keep both platforms. The layout has a lot of practicality to many people like about it, you actually can bring some groceries home even a few bags of rock salt haha. Easy to travel in with two people and some luggage. It sounds like it will continue for a couple years as is but it wouldn't cost much to do a C5 to c6 type freshen up and keep it going. I think that there will be a market for both. They'll be very different cars.
I wonder if the ME car is going to be Corvette model unto itself with the actual C8 remaining the same front engine platform coming a couple years down the road.
02-14-2018, 08:47 PM
#25
Its 85K to start and if they are competing with the likes of the Acura NSX (another ME 2 seater) then its a great deal and a nice car etc. With options though, it will easily hit 100k.
BUT this is not what I want. The Corvette for the past decade has been an extraordinary value and I was praying and hoping they would continue this. 55K is what it starts out now so a 30k jump is extraordinary. I was hoping that the Corvette could remain the quintessential American sports car that everyone could hope to afford some day but if it goes past 60k, that just won't be the case. In a way I understand because the Camaro is creeping up in price but that car is much worse than a Corvette. Its handling is not as good and it is not nearly as classy as Corvette. I will have to leave the GM brand sadly if they go this route.
I also don't understand why someone would get such a high end car and still be stuck at a Chevy dealership. Its not a luxury brand and the cars have only a 3 year warranty.
Hoping we get lucky and maybe they keep 2 Corvette models for the long term and keep producing stick shifts and V8s.
BUT this is not what I want. The Corvette for the past decade has been an extraordinary value and I was praying and hoping they would continue this. 55K is what it starts out now so a 30k jump is extraordinary. I was hoping that the Corvette could remain the quintessential American sports car that everyone could hope to afford some day but if it goes past 60k, that just won't be the case. In a way I understand because the Camaro is creeping up in price but that car is much worse than a Corvette. Its handling is not as good and it is not nearly as classy as Corvette. I will have to leave the GM brand sadly if they go this route.
I also don't understand why someone would get such a high end car and still be stuck at a Chevy dealership. Its not a luxury brand and the cars have only a 3 year warranty.
Hoping we get lucky and maybe they keep 2 Corvette models for the long term and keep producing stick shifts and V8s.
02-15-2018, 03:32 PM
#26
Race Director
No company logically moves a successful and iconic halo valued brand from 55 grand msrp to 85 grand...
That is a ridiculous idea...
Never gonna happen dot com...
We will see a few grand increase as has been the pricing history of corvette as shown in previous posts.
That is a ridiculous idea...
Never gonna happen dot com...
We will see a few grand increase as has been the pricing history of corvette as shown in previous posts.
Last edited by JerriVette; 02-15-2018 at 03:34 PM.
02-16-2018, 02:27 PM
#27
Safety Car
I just did a poll on another Corvette forum (still open) and almost everyone voted for a 2020 C7 front fascia refresh as a good way to re-invigorate C7 buyers.
We have seen that GM used to refresh some past generations of Corvettes to increase sales toward the end of a generation. If there was ever a time to do that for the C7, the 2020 MY is the time.
GM, thank you for also considering juicing up the LT1 to 475 HP (we hope; we hope).
We have seen that GM used to refresh some past generations of Corvettes to increase sales toward the end of a generation. If there was ever a time to do that for the C7, the 2020 MY is the time.
GM, thank you for also considering juicing up the LT1 to 475 HP (we hope; we hope).
02-16-2018, 03:55 PM
#28
Safety Car
I just did a poll on another Corvette forum (still open) and almost everyone voted for a 2020 C7 front fascia refresh as a good way to re-invigorate C7 buyers.
We have seen that GM used to refresh some past generations of Corvettes to increase sales toward the end of a generation. If there was ever a time to do that for the C7, the 2020 MY is the time.
GM, thank you for also considering juicing up the LT1 to 475 HP (we hope; we hope).
We have seen that GM used to refresh some past generations of Corvettes to increase sales toward the end of a generation. If there was ever a time to do that for the C7, the 2020 MY is the time.
GM, thank you for also considering juicing up the LT1 to 475 HP (we hope; we hope).
02-16-2018, 05:06 PM
#29
Safety Car
It sure would be better.
02-17-2018, 01:54 PM
#30
in a nutshell, what is the consensus of the starting price of the ME and how many will be made in 5 years? Are the 30,000 DCTs, strictly going to be used in the ME, or are some of those longitudinal and going into a C7/8 FE?
Last edited by conceptmachine; 02-17-2018 at 01:55 PM.
02-17-2018, 03:15 PM
#31
Team Owner
The engine in the mid engine Corvette is also mounted longitudinally.
Last edited by JoesC5; 02-17-2018 at 03:18 PM.
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02-17-2018, 07:24 PM
#32
thanks Joe, so those 30,000 that were supposedly ordered from Tremec could be used in the front engine. numbers for the mid engine could be substantially less than the front engine.
02-18-2018, 12:03 PM
#33
Team Owner
That same transmission could be used in a front engine Corvette. Instead of the engine being bolted directly to the transaxle(as in a mid engine car), the torque tube would be retained between the front engine and the transaxle(same as in the AMG GT front engine sports car that has it's transmission mounted behind the rear axle but has front engine with a torque tube).
It's possible that GM could use the same DCT(transmission mounted behind the rear axle) in a next generation front engine Corvette that it would use in a mid engine car. Economies of scale would help keep the price down in both variations, if both were run concurrently(as I believe they will).
Last edited by JoesC5; 02-18-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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conceptmachine (02-18-2018)
02-19-2018, 09:21 AM
#34
Platinum Supporting Dealership
So I read somewhere that the C8 may well be a mid-engine Corvette (the Zora may wind up being the C8 according to this speculation) and that the base price would ramp from the current $56K to $80K+. Hey, GM can do whatever they want, but if the average MSRP on a Corvette really goes that high (that's the base car they're talking about @ $80K+, there will be pricier versions), there is no chance GM is going to sell 30-40,000 of them annually in my view. Out of reach for that many sports car buyers. First off, there aren't that many sports cars buyers to begin with. The Corvette has always been an aspirational car (I aspired to own one, finally got there @ age 58), and guys like me get a few bucks together when they're older and many of them S T R E T C H to buy the car. I did. I wouldn't have even tried if the car had been $20K higher.
I think an awful lot of Corvette buyers are like me. I think if they really go that high on pricing they'll be lucky to sell 20K units annually. Maybe GM would prefer a higher demographic buyer and higher profit per car, but I think they would be better served to dish up a C8 version that has a window sticker closer to today's car for a number of reasons. Then they can have a couple of pricier models with a little more power, etc.
Cars are discretionary purchases, and I overcame my logic to buy this car. Because make no mistake, there are few dumber ways of flushing money down the toilet than blowing $60K than buying any brand new car. So it better make you happy. And my car does. But there are limits to my abilities to suspend sound monetary policy. So they'll lose some sales to guys who think like I do and others to guys who just can't come up with the dough, because every $10K you go north on price over a certain point reduces your buyer pool exponentially.
It is fascinating to watch this unfold. But my hope would be for a base model that carries a base price no higher than say $60K.
I think an awful lot of Corvette buyers are like me. I think if they really go that high on pricing they'll be lucky to sell 20K units annually. Maybe GM would prefer a higher demographic buyer and higher profit per car, but I think they would be better served to dish up a C8 version that has a window sticker closer to today's car for a number of reasons. Then they can have a couple of pricier models with a little more power, etc.
Cars are discretionary purchases, and I overcame my logic to buy this car. Because make no mistake, there are few dumber ways of flushing money down the toilet than blowing $60K than buying any brand new car. So it better make you happy. And my car does. But there are limits to my abilities to suspend sound monetary policy. So they'll lose some sales to guys who think like I do and others to guys who just can't come up with the dough, because every $10K you go north on price over a certain point reduces your buyer pool exponentially.
It is fascinating to watch this unfold. But my hope would be for a base model that carries a base price no higher than say $60K.
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02-19-2018, 11:01 AM
#35
Burning Brakes
Here are my thoughts on market positioning and pricing of the mid-engine Corvette.
GM has the low end (if you could call it that) covered with a variety of Camero models.
Once you move up to a two seater you have the base Corvette, Grand Sport, Z06 and the ZR1. That pretty much covers the market at $60K +/- through $140K or so.
Now we have the latest and greatest technology packed mid-engine variant in the wings. Why in the world would GM invest nearly a half billion dollars in a manufacturing facility to market and build this sports car and position it price wise near the bottom end of it's current offerings??? Doesn't make any sense to me and I'm sure the guys keeping tabs on the bottom line at GM would also have a hard time buying a 'business case' for the offering....
So here we go with the 'addition' of a mid-engine Corvette to the already established line of Corvette offerings. (By the way, does Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, etc have only ONE offering at ONE price point in the market???)
I submit that GM will (I hope) offer the new mid-engined Corvette as a 'HALO' model and price it accordingly with all the latest trick stuff and bells & whistles when it comes out of the box at introduction. Over the following several years, as they amortize the investment and the cost of the 'technology' comes down, they can de-content it somewhat and lower the price AS THEY PHASE OUT THE OLD STYLE FRONT ENGINED models with new lower cost/lower priced ME's.
This makes much more sense to me than overlaying the new 'latest and greatest' thing on wheels right on top of the existing offerings, from a pricing standpoint. Who out there is going to buy the FE model if the ME is priced almost the same (other than those still whining about the loss of round tail lights)???
The guys that can afford the latest and greatest will pay the premium when it's introduced. The rest will figure out a way to 'rationalize' a more conservative investment in a traditional FE Corvette that benefits from some of the 'trickle down' technology that comes from the ME.
Just my thoughts based on 40+ years of marketing and price positioning, as well as Corvette ownership since 1968......
GM has the low end (if you could call it that) covered with a variety of Camero models.
Once you move up to a two seater you have the base Corvette, Grand Sport, Z06 and the ZR1. That pretty much covers the market at $60K +/- through $140K or so.
Now we have the latest and greatest technology packed mid-engine variant in the wings. Why in the world would GM invest nearly a half billion dollars in a manufacturing facility to market and build this sports car and position it price wise near the bottom end of it's current offerings??? Doesn't make any sense to me and I'm sure the guys keeping tabs on the bottom line at GM would also have a hard time buying a 'business case' for the offering....
So here we go with the 'addition' of a mid-engine Corvette to the already established line of Corvette offerings. (By the way, does Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, etc have only ONE offering at ONE price point in the market???)
I submit that GM will (I hope) offer the new mid-engined Corvette as a 'HALO' model and price it accordingly with all the latest trick stuff and bells & whistles when it comes out of the box at introduction. Over the following several years, as they amortize the investment and the cost of the 'technology' comes down, they can de-content it somewhat and lower the price AS THEY PHASE OUT THE OLD STYLE FRONT ENGINED models with new lower cost/lower priced ME's.
This makes much more sense to me than overlaying the new 'latest and greatest' thing on wheels right on top of the existing offerings, from a pricing standpoint. Who out there is going to buy the FE model if the ME is priced almost the same (other than those still whining about the loss of round tail lights)???
The guys that can afford the latest and greatest will pay the premium when it's introduced. The rest will figure out a way to 'rationalize' a more conservative investment in a traditional FE Corvette that benefits from some of the 'trickle down' technology that comes from the ME.
Just my thoughts based on 40+ years of marketing and price positioning, as well as Corvette ownership since 1968......
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JerriVette (02-19-2018)
02-19-2018, 09:59 PM
#38
Race Director
Here's what the Germans offer for 65 to 80 grand.
I guess you guys are right...
Based off your logic...
https://www.caranddriver.com/compari...mparison-tests
I guess you guys are right...
Based off your logic...
https://www.caranddriver.com/compari...mparison-tests
02-20-2018, 04:48 PM
#40
Le Mans Master
I've thoroughly enjoyed the freedom given to Team Camaro in the last few years. Remember the good ol' days of detuned LS1s in the Z28 and SS 4th gens? These days you can walk into any Chevy dealership and order an SS of your choice, with the SAME power mill of a C7 and with a six speed I've heard is even better than the C7s. On top of that, a factory exhaust, which in my opinion, sounds amazing! Camaro has definitely come into its own in a very big way. Another great product from Chevy.
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JerriVette (02-20-2018)