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List of components, technologies, and configurations of the Mid Engined Corvette

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List of components, technologies, and configurations of the Mid Engined Corvette

Old 12-28-2018, 02:09 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by johnglenntwo View Post
I am always right on here!
You haven't said anything to be right about. You can barely form a complete sentence let alone make a prediction that anyone could understand.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:10 PM
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With the growing list of creative apparatus on this vehicle, how can anyone think it is going to be inexpensive?
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:51 AM
  #163  
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Seems most have given up debating this! While not every one of those elements may appear on this vehicle, the lion's share are too evident of GM's technical prowess to ignore. None are inexpensive and this simply suggests that the cost of the mid engine Corvette is bound to be higher then most expect.

Last edited by ltomn; 12-29-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:18 AM
  #164  
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Read yesterday that the C8 may have power doors. Where will it end?
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:53 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
Thanks to jagamajajaran for exposing the C8 ZORA coming with power swinging opening doors according to a GM patent application for a power opening door. While some might think it's a option I tend to think it might be necessary considering the purported upswing Swan style doors that ltomn reported a while back. Realizing the weight of the door and inclination that the door is swinging up to, it might be required. It's going on the list.

https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...er-door-patent

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Old 12-29-2018, 10:53 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by ltomn View Post
With the growing list of creative apparatus on this vehicle, how can anyone think it is going to be inexpensive?

not in expensive, but many of these features don’t necessarily have to cost an arm and a leg either.

Power assist doors and suspension lifts and even active aero has been accomplished on low and moderately priced vehicles. Of course all depending on how these features are implemented. Simplicity and mass production should keep the cost lower than traditional supercars.

as far as the power assist doors go, not sure of the actual need. The doors do not seem to open and a significant angle to require power. Simple springs and cam action should be able to operate these doors at the angles we have seen so far.

is it possible that there are different hinge mechanism’s that have not been built into the mules and that will show up on the production cars. ? I don’t see any reason why there couldn’t be production cars with different hinge mechanism is that open the door at higher angles which may need power assist. I don’t think the door mechanism would necessarily need road testing on these particular mules and could probably be accomplished in the factory

What say you?
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:03 AM
  #167  
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Every cuv offers electronic hatches...i cant see opening to side doors as a big deal or an expensive feature...

i prefer to manually open my own doors but for those that want the automatic door openers should be simple and cheap
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:08 AM
  #168  
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The concept of a base model with numerous opportunities to escalate the driving experience, as well as the price, has been a model of many car companies...including GM. It is possible that power doors may not be standard but should the mechanism prove not too costly (?) it may be present of all potential models. My statement is not, singularly, about power doors! This is the, approximately, 92nd component that Skank has included on his list. Even if all of them are downright cheap, and many are clearly not, the sheer number of elements could easily send the price of this vehicle much higher then most are nonsensically expecting.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:04 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by firstvettesoon View Post

as far as the power assist doors go, not sure of the actual need. The doors do not seem to open and a significant angle to require power. Simple springs and cam action should be able to operate these doors at the angles we have seen so far.

What say you?


So, with that I had to visit my ‘14 Base Coupe sleeping in my garage until Spring to take a few driver’s side door swing height and egress opening measurements. The tires are at ~40# pressure and is lowered on the bolts to Front 26 5/8” / Back 28” measured to center of fender opening to ground.

RESULTS: Top of painted door panel at window gasket, 36” to ground. Door open to first stop on cam 36 1/2” to ground. Second stop on cam 37” to ground. Door fully open 37” to ground. In all positions the bottom of door to ground was 9”-10”.

With that the door opening at first cam step was ~15” door inside to car body which allowed me to swing myself in the driver’s seat and place my left foot on the ground. Thus I had increased leverage to push the door open from there. No problem for me.

At the second cam step it was ~25” door inside to car body. Now both feet can be now on the ground thus even more leverage. Fully open the door to car body was ~33”. Even better for me in any cam position.

CONCLUSION (IMO): At me being ~75 years old, I think I would not need power assisted doors IF the ME has only a moderate upswing door, as it does appear in the pic, to clear parking next to a curb (>9”) especially if the ME is no lower than my C7, which appears not to be expected. And the ME’s door does not weight considerably more than a C7’s door.


EDIT” Forgot to wish everyone “A Happy New Year”.


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Old 12-29-2018, 01:34 PM
  #170  
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^^^ Thanks for the info!

Happy New Year to all !

GM...please send us some holiday cheer soon !
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:39 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by ltomn View Post
The concept of a base model with numerous opportunities to escalate the driving experience, as well as the price, has been a model of many car companies...including GM. It is possible that power doors may not be standard but should the mechanism prove not too costly (?) it may be present of all potential models. My statement is not, singularly, about power doors! This is the, approximately, 92nd component that Skank has included on his list. Even if all of them are downright cheap, and many are clearly not, the sheer number of elements could easily send the price of this vehicle much higher then most are nonsensically expecting.

I get ya...and you are no doubt correct. $65-$75-$80k for a GS level trim on the ME is not a crazy number and right in line with the current C7. That is a fair amount of money to work with to cover some new tech costs IMO.
I see swapping out different tech and possibly less expensive tech due to more modern production "could" be a wash for and up cost.

For the upper levels, all the bells and whistles will be gravy.

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Old 12-29-2018, 06:01 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by ltomn View Post
Seems most have given up debating this! While not every one of those elements may appear on this vehicle, the lion's share are too evident of GM's technical prowess to ignore. None are inexpensive and this simply suggests that the cost of the mid engine Corvette is bound to be higher then most expect.
Only because most of us have grown bored with the debate.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:26 PM
  #173  
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Understood! I think reality has settled in.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:25 PM
  #174  
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Here is a very interesting read on Plasma Aerodynamic Testing. GM and team Corvette could quite possibly be testing with this technology. This tech requires higher electrical voltage which plays right into the hand of the latest electrical enhancement issue.


GM is Experimenting With Plasma Aerodynamics

by Michael Accardi March 20, 2018




Plasma is perhaps the most misunderstood of the four fundamental states of matter on earth.

Unlike the Earth’s other three states–solid, liquid, and gas–we don’t really interact with plasma in most normal situations. In fact, plasma is only generated by subjecting a neutral gas to an electromagnetic field to the point that it becomes ionized. However, the process isn’t as radical as it might sound, for example, the Northern Lights are believed to be a form of plasma, while neon lights get their glow from a mild form of ionization. Sailors and pilots are familiar with the phenomenon as the legendary St.Elmo’s fire.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, plasma has been investigated as the next big thing in the field of aerodynamics. It started with the heavy hitters in aerospace before the commercial trucking industry got wind of its drag reducing promise. Now, documents published by the United States Patent and Trademark Office reveal that General Motors has picked up the thread as a possible solution for meeting perpetually rising fuel economy standards.

Plasma aerodynamics effectively operate using the same principles that are baked into ionized air purifiers, but with a twist. Surface electrodes emitted by actuators force the surrounding air to become energized which causes the component molecules to break down into ions and electrons which then become plasma “clouds”. Those clouds can then be directed and used to shape surface airflow without the need for moving parts.



According to the document, GM is looking at plasma aerodynamics in order to control the “flow separation” of turbulent air as it comes off the back of a moving vehicle. Of course, they could just shape the car into a smooth phallic shape that would slide through the air with supreme ease, but the company acknowledges that such a drastic measure would severely impact the car’s aesthetics and desirability among consumers.

The attached drawings show the strategic placement of plasma actuators on the A-pillars, which would begin shaping the air as it travels towards more actuators located above the rear window, on top of the rear deck, and at the edges of the rear fascia. Air would also be controlled under the car with actuators working to keep air from getting tossed up into the wheels or from escaping along the flanks, before helping it accelerate from the rear.

GM says the actuators themselves “could be configured as a small strip, similar in thickness to a strip of aluminum foil.” The thickness of the strip would have the potential to be increased in order to create a stronger acting plasma cloud, through the use of increased voltages.



For now, the technology is only really being investigated as a fuel saver, but there is language within the document that points to a far more exciting future for the technology. For instance, GM claims that through the use of plasma it can influence airflow in a matter of mere milliseconds, which is blindingly fast compared to the hydraulically actuated systems in place on performance cars like the Ford GT and McLaren 720S.

Aerospace engineers have long considered how plasma could be deployed to help airplane wings create more lift with less drag–imagine if you took those lessons on lift, and inverted them, instead, using the technology to generate downforce without the speed sucking drag that normally comes as consequence.

Last edited by skank; 01-04-2019 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:06 PM
  #175  
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Absolutely fascinating!!!!
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:24 PM
  #176  
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Looks like GM is finally getting around to underbody aerodynamics in earnest, something Ferrari has been doing since 1995.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:12 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
Here is a very interesting read on Plasma Aerodynamic Testing. GM and team Corvette could quite possibly be testing with this technology. This tech requires higher electrical voltage which plays right into the hand of the latest electrical enhancement issue.


GM is Experimenting With Plasma Aerodynamics

by Michael Accardi March 20, 2018




Plasma is perhaps the most misunderstood of the four fundamental states of matter on earth.

Unlike the Earth’s other three states–solid, liquid, and gas–we don’t really interact with plasma in most normal situations. In fact, plasma is only generated by subjecting a neutral gas to an electromagnetic field to the point that it becomes ionized. However, the process isn’t as radical as it might sound, for example, the Northern Lights are believed to be a form of plasma, while neon lights get their glow from a mild form of ionization. Sailors and pilots are familiar with the phenomenon as the legendary St.Elmo’s fire.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, plasma has been investigated as the next big thing in the field of aerodynamics. It started with the heavy hitters in aerospace before the commercial trucking industry got wind of its drag reducing promise. Now, documents published by the United States Patent and Trademark Office reveal that General Motors has picked up the thread as a possible solution for meeting perpetually rising fuel economy standards.

Plasma aerodynamics effectively operate using the same principles that are baked into ionized air purifiers, but with a twist. Surface electrodes emitted by actuators force the surrounding air to become energized which causes the component molecules to break down into ions and electrons which then become plasma “clouds”. Those clouds can then be directed and used to shape surface airflow without the need for moving parts.



According to the document, GM is looking at plasma aerodynamics in order to control the “flow separation” of turbulent air as it comes off the back of a moving vehicle. Of course, they could just shape the car into a smooth phallic shape that would slide through the air with supreme ease, but the company acknowledges that such a drastic measure would severely impact the car’s aesthetics and desirability among consumers.

The attached drawings show the strategic placement of plasma actuators on the A-pillars, which would begin shaping the air as it travels towards more actuators located above the rear window, on top of the rear deck, and at the edges of the rear fascia. Air would also be controlled under the car with actuators working to keep air from getting tossed up into the wheels or from escaping along the flanks, before helping it accelerate from the rear.
GM says the actuators themselves “could be configured as a small strip, similar in thickness to a strip of aluminum foil.” The thickness of the strip would have the potential to be increased in order to create a stronger acting plasma cloud, through the use of increased voltages.
For now, the technology is only really being investigated as a fuel saver, but there is language within the document that points to a far more exciting future for the technology. For instance, GM claims that through the use of plasma it can influence airflow in a matter of mere milliseconds, which is blindingly fast compared to the hydraulically actuated systems in place on performance cars like the Ford GT and McLaren 720S.
Aerospace engineers have long considered how plasma could be deployed to help airplane wings create more lift with less drag–imagine if you took those lessons on lift, and inverted them, instead, using the technology to generate downforce without the speed sucking drag that normally comes as consequence.
Golly, being a fighter jock ret. this is a subject close to my heart, because aviation and aerospace is my life. Thanks, I'll research it but you know me, I may not reveal my findings as I'm always reluctant to educate the public especially since most are so unappreciative of my efforts..
You mention the Russians. Well both we and them stole German scientists after the war. The Russians claim that their German scientists are better than ours. Could be. Anyway, terms like electrohydrodynamic and magnetohydrodynamic interactions, the two primary mechanisms that generate plasma-based flow control body forces, came from the V1 and V2 projects in two different regions. Modern IC engine design incorporates active plasma control of thermoacoustic combustion as a method to reduce NOx emissions. Where did that come from? The V1 pulse jet engine. The spark jet, or pulsed plasma jet, is a hybrid actuator. It employs a spark discharge across electrodes housed in a small cavity. When the actuator fires, the rapid heating generates a synthetic jet out of the cavity, which injects high-momentum fluid into the flow. These actuators can introduce a strong perturbation into the flow, and have been successfully applied to shock-wave / boundary-layer interaction.
I speak of boundary layer all the time which for the most part goes over your heads. The V2 was a re entry vehicle and guess what those clever German scientists discovered? Plasma aerodynamics. No ****. The real beginnings of the space age and not Sputnik, when these German scientists realized that plasmas had significant influence on reentry flows.
Captured Germans put Sputnik into space.

There is a slight problem with your story above . PA doesn't apply to sub sonic velocities such as with auto aerodynamics but it does apply to auto IC engines which have supersonic flow.

peter stevens speedtail

Although plasma aerodynamics dates back to WWII, a surge of activity has occurred in PA applications in the field of science since the mid-1990s. There has been strong research interest in plasma-based flow and super sonic flight control, plasma-assisted combustion, on-board electrical power generation, and magnetohydrodynamic heat shields. As the field has matured, some of the older concepts are receiving less attention, and emphasis is being placed on different areas like small-scale plasma actuators. Present white papers on the subject can be found here: http://www.aerospacelab-journal.org which summarizes the current status of the field, and identifies promising directions for scientific research and technology development. It does not apply to a C8 aero however.

Read the rest at your own peril. Mods, you may delete this but not the above. Thanks.

We are so far behind the Rooskies because our deep state government hates America. It is damn scary. We are experiencing a communist Coup d'etat. Their missiles are so far ahead of ours.
In 1994, Russian scientists introduced a novel hypersonic flight vehicle concept, AJAX or AYAKS, into the open literature. AJAX was a scramjet-powered vehicle, which incorporated plasma-based technology to enhance combustion and aerodynamic performance. Work had begun on AJAX and its predecessor concept vehicles in the former Soviet Union before 1985, but this work was not made public at the time.
In response to AJAX, the US Air Force, through the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) and the European Office of Aerospace Research and Development (EOARD) established the Weakly Ionized Gases (WIG) Program in the former Soviet Republics. The WIG program was created to foster US – Eastern Bloc cooperative research exchange, and has been a strong influence on plasma aerodynamics. Initial research in the United States was directed at understanding the role of plasmas in the performance of the AJAX vehicle.
Arguably the most captivating aspect of the plasma effects was the so called “plasma magic,” the weakening of hypersonic shock waves by plasmas. The Air Force Arnold Engineering and Development Center (AEDC) performed ballistic projectile experiments to attempt to reproduce early (ca. 1978) Russian experiments. Their results generally confirmed the Russian observations. Subsequently, the Air Force Office of Scientific Research (AFOSR) assembled a team to Issue 10 - December 2015 - Plasma Aerodynamics: Current Status and Future Directions Simulations AL10-01 2 conduct modeling and experiments. Plasma magic was eventually explained after being classified for decades. It has as a plasma-based heating effect, albeit a result of complex and subtle physics. Research on aerospace plasma technology once expanded far beyond these initial efforts with broad international collaboration. Obama brought it to an abrupt halt. We are in deep **** folks.

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Old 01-04-2019, 09:29 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
Golly, being a fighter jock ret. this is a subject close to my heart, because aviation and aerospace is my life. Thanks, I'll research it but you know me, I may not reveal my findings as I'm always reluctant to educate the public especially since most are so unappreciative of my efforts..
You mention the Russians. Well both we and them stole German scientists after the war. The Russians claim that their German scientists are better than ours. Could be. Anyway, terms like electrohydrodynamic and magnetohydrodynamic interactions, the two primary mechanisms that generate plasma-based flow control body forces, came from the V1 and V2 projects in two different regions. Modern IC engine design incorporates active plasma control of thermoacoustic combustion as a method to reduce NOx emissions. Where did that come from? The V1 pulse jet engine. The spark jet, or pulsed plasma jet, is a hybrid actuator. It employs a spark discharge across electrodes housed in a small cavity. When the actuator fires, the rapid heating generates a synthetic jet out of the cavity, which injects high-momentum fluid into the flow. These actuators can introduce a strong perturbation into the flow, and have been successfully applied to shock-wave / boundary-layer interaction.
I speak of boundary layer all the time which for the most part goes over your heads. The V2 was a re entry vehicle and guess what those clever German scientists discovered? Plasma aerodynamics. No ****. The real beginnings of the space age and not Sputnik, when these German scientists realized that plasmas had significant influence on reentry flows.
Captured Germans put Sputnik into space.

There is a slight problem with your story above . PA doesn't apply to sub sonic velocities such as with auto aerodynamics but it does apply to auto IC engines which have supersonic flow.

peter stevens speedtail

Although plasma aerodynamics dates back to WWII, a surge of activity has occurred in PA applications in the field of science since the mid-1990s. There has been strong research interest in plasma-based flow and super sonic flight control, plasma-assisted combustion, on-board electrical power generation, and magnetohydrodynamic heat shields. As the field has matured, some of the older concepts are receiving less attention, and emphasis is being placed on different areas like small-scale plasma actuators. Present white papers on the subject can be found here: http://www.aerospacelab-journal.org which summarizes the current status of the field, and identifies promising directions for scientific research and technology development. It does not apply to a C8 aero however.

Read the rest at your own peril. Mods, you may delete this but not the above. Thanks.

We are so far behind the Rooskies because our deep state government hates America. It is damn scary. We are experiencing a communist Coup d'etat. Their missiles are so far ahead of ours.
In 1994, Russian scientists introduced a novel hypersonic flight vehicle concept, AJAX or AYAKS, into the open literature. AJAX was a scramjet-powered vehicle, which incorporated plasma-based technology to enhance combustion and aerodynamic performance. Work had begun on AJAX and its predecessor concept vehicles in the former Soviet Union before 1985, but this work was not made public at the time.
In response to AJAX, the US Air Force, through the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) and the European Office of Aerospace Research and Development (EOARD) established the Weakly Ionized Gases (WIG) Program in the former Soviet Republics. The WIG program was created to foster US – Eastern Bloc cooperative research exchange, and has been a strong influence on plasma aerodynamics. Initial research in the United States was directed at understanding the role of plasmas in the performance of the AJAX vehicle.
Arguably the most captivating aspect of the plasma effects was the so called “plasma magic,” the weakening of hypersonic shock waves by plasmas. The Air Force Arnold Engineering and Development Center (AEDC) performed ballistic projectile experiments to attempt to reproduce early (ca. 1978) Russian experiments. Their results generally confirmed the Russian observations. Subsequently, the Air Force Office of Scientific Research (AFOSR) assembled a team to Issue 10 - December 2015 - Plasma Aerodynamics: Current Status and Future Directions Simulations AL10-01 2 conduct modeling and experiments. Plasma magic was eventually explained after being classified for decades. It has as a plasma-based heating effect, albeit a result of complex and subtle physics. Research on aerospace plasma technology once expanded far beyond these initial efforts with broad international collaboration. Obama brought it to an abrupt halt. We are in deep **** folks.
#Thanksobama very insightful read.
Originally Posted by skank View Post
Here is a very interesting read on Plasma Aerodynamic Testing. GM and team Corvette could quite possibly be testing with this technology. This tech requires higher electrical voltage which plays right into the hand of the latest electrical enhancement issue.


GM is Experimenting With Plasma Aerodynamics

by Michael Accardi March 20, 2018




Plasma is perhaps the most misunderstood of the four fundamental states of matter on earth.

Unlike the Earth’s other three states–solid, liquid, and gas–we don’t really interact with plasma in most normal situations. In fact, plasma is only generated by subjecting a neutral gas to an electromagnetic field to the point that it becomes ionized. However, the process isn’t as radical as it might sound, for example, the Northern Lights are believed to be a form of plasma, while neon lights get their glow from a mild form of ionization. Sailors and pilots are familiar with the phenomenon as the legendary St.Elmo’s fire.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, plasma has been investigated as the next big thing in the field of aerodynamics. It started with the heavy hitters in aerospace before the commercial trucking industry got wind of its drag reducing promise. Now, documents published by the United States Patent and Trademark Office reveal that General Motors has picked up the thread as a possible solution for meeting perpetually rising fuel economy standards.

Plasma aerodynamics effectively operate using the same principles that are baked into ionized air purifiers, but with a twist. Surface electrodes emitted by actuators force the surrounding air to become energized which causes the component molecules to break down into ions and electrons which then become plasma “clouds”. Those clouds can then be directed and used to shape surface airflow without the need for moving parts.



According to the document, GM is looking at plasma aerodynamics in order to control the “flow separation” of turbulent air as it comes off the back of a moving vehicle. Of course, they could just shape the car into a smooth phallic shape that would slide through the air with supreme ease, but the company acknowledges that such a drastic measure would severely impact the car’s aesthetics and desirability among consumers.

The attached drawings show the strategic placement of plasma actuators on the A-pillars, which would begin shaping the air as it travels towards more actuators located above the rear window, on top of the rear deck, and at the edges of the rear fascia. Air would also be controlled under the car with actuators working to keep air from getting tossed up into the wheels or from escaping along the flanks, before helping it accelerate from the rear.

GM says the actuators themselves “could be configured as a small strip, similar in thickness to a strip of aluminum foil.” The thickness of the strip would have the potential to be increased in order to create a stronger acting plasma cloud, through the use of increased voltages.



For now, the technology is only really being investigated as a fuel saver, but there is language within the document that points to a far more exciting future for the technology. For instance, GM claims that through the use of plasma it can influence airflow in a matter of mere milliseconds, which is blindingly fast compared to the hydraulically actuated systems in place on performance cars like the Ford GT and McLaren 720S.

Aerospace engineers have long considered how plasma could be deployed to help airplane wings create more lift with less drag–imagine if you took those lessons on lift, and inverted them, instead, using the technology to generate downforce without the speed sucking drag that normally comes as consequence.
So I have very limited experience with plasma. Mainly because my professor spent about an hour arguing that it isn't a 4th state of matter rather a supercritical gas. Idk, after the first 10 minutes of the rant I tuned it out. Anyway, I would guess on an application like this, the energy required would probably end up as a wash with the reduction in drag created. Last I checked it could only exist under very specific circumstances unless you threw enough power at it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 12:16 PM
  #179  
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There is a button above the leather covered infotainment controller that appears to have a icon that represents the rear hatch opened up. It has the shape of the rear ventilator frame with a center rib down the middle. There's a real possibility of a split window detail as there's really no reason to have full vision out the back of that heavily sloped and distorted rear window when they now have a wide angle Digital Rear View Streaming Mirror/Camera. The shape of that rear hatch ventilator frame could easily allow a glass overlay detail that could create a split window look or leave it off for people that don't want it. With that rear view camera a rear window is actually unnecessary.
In fact, it kind of makes all sorts of sense to do this as the 63 split window coupe is a Icon for Corvette. They could treat the rear window frame as a design element that could be Matte black, Carbon Flash, Dark Grey, body colored, or even centerline bookmatched Carbon Fiber like the ZR1 and many other high end exotics. This is going on the list.
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