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Oh, so you have seen the 800hp version? Marvelous.
As far as engine intakes go, anytime the car is actually running there is going to be such a drastically negative pressure area at the intake because of the engine that the physical size of the intake is more of a design factor than a functional one. Just look at the intakes for the 570hp Ferrari 458 Italia and 710hp McLaren 720S:
Last edited by NewYuriCity; 02-17-2018 at 09:47 PM.
I just don’t see why you’d doubt one of the biggest companies in the world, especially when they’re so invested in it.
Not answering for Shaka, but a lot of us are "concerned" about cooling, since this big car company is fresh off the heels of underdesigning the C7Z cooling system, which has been proven OK for the street but deficient for track use. They drastically changed the ZR1 cooling system as a fix ....... point is, mistakes can always be made when engineering new products, and sometimes it takes a year or so of production to begin to hash out issues. With the C8, indications are they will eventually add considerable horsepower over the C7Z, while at the same time placing the engine in a new location presenting new heat transfer issues and requiring new cooling solutions.
Not answering for Shaka, but a lot of us are "concerned" about cooling, since this big car company is fresh off the heels of underdesigning the C7Z cooling system. With the C8, indications are they will eventually add considerable horsepower over the C7Z, while at the same time placing the engine in a new location presenting new heat transfer issues and requiring new cooling solutions.
A big jump in power is not needed and that is not what they are after . Current power levels are fine. Going mid engine is about being better able to put that power to the ground and improving handling dynamics. The front engine rear wheel drive platform was pretty much maxed out and any further improvements to that platform would be marginal at this point. Putting the engine out back and incorporating a DCT transmission will be a game changer. GM is removing their self-imposed handcuffs against the likes of Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, etc.
800hp is rediculous, considering that a 720s makes 710hp.
The latest McLaren (the Senna) will put out 789hp + 590lbs with a 4.0L TT.
Since it has been leaked a 5.5L TT is slated for the GM ME at some point, 800hp isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
The latest McLaren (the Senna) will put out 789hp + 59w0lbs with a 4.0L TT.
Since it has been leaked a 5.5L TT is slated for the GM ME at some point, 800hp isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
I think the point was, these horsepower figures are getting ridiculously high. Beyond a certain amount, it’s overkill. Better to focus on balance and putting that power down most efficiently and effectively. Look what the GT3 can do with “just” 500hp. GM needs to focus on maximizing the handling characteristics of this car and making it easier to drive fast. I think that’s where development dollars and focus should go. Just my 2 cents given that most of us here probably can’t even handle pushing 300 hp to the limit...
Last edited by Paulchristian; 02-18-2018 at 09:25 AM.
Those side intakes are difficult to make effective. You have to have a massive Coke bottle shape and a wide rear end but even then, the airflow just doesn't go down that far,
The bottom view of the CAD does suggest a significant Coke bote shape as confirmed by c7. If the flow can reach the 488 intake as you point out...I am sure it can reach the larger c8 intake.
Be advised: I have placed 4 members on DSP. (Double Secret Probation.) Girls, behave yourselves, OK.
Lol.
Ok. Animal house reference. Mildly amusing.
I just think you don't know funny or comic timing. It's ok. We can't all be clever.
As you know, what I said was 100% accurate. Don't know why you are so skeptical and negative about the c8 design. We don't know nearly enough for you criticize and think this design positively can't work.
I seriously doubt they would be designing it this way if it didn't work. Your examples and your comparisons contradict each other.
By the way. I am happy you admitted that my render was accurate since c7 used mine and only slightly modified it and you complimented the correct and beautiful perspective view. Thanks again!
Knight to queen's level four...
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 02-18-2018 at 11:57 AM.
Guys, some of you need to lighten up and not take things so seriously. Everything in this thread at this point is pure speculation.
Either people take it easy or we can just lock up this thread and no one can express their opinions......that's all everyone is doing in this thread-expressing their opinions.
I think the point was, these horsepower figures are getting ridiculously high. Beyond a certain amount, it’s overkill. Better to focus on balance and putting that power down most efficiently and effectively.
No argument here.
GM needs to focus on maximizing the handling characteristics of this car and making it easier to drive fast. I think that’s where development dollars and focus should go. Just my 2 cents given that most of us here probably can’t even handle pushing 300 hp to the limit...
I think the point was, these horsepower figures are getting ridiculously high. Beyond a certain amount, it’s overkill. Better to focus on balance and putting that power down most efficiently and effectively. Look what the GT3 can do with “just” 500hp. GM needs to focus on maximizing the handling characteristics of this car and making it easier to drive fast. I think that’s where development dollars and focus should go. Just my 2 cents given that most of us here probably can’t even handle pushing 300 hp to the limit...
I agree. Just look how well Porsche manages to put the measly 500 HP(that's less than my C6 Z06) to the pavement with it's NORMALLY ASPIRATED 4L flat six in the GT3, with it's really measly 339 lb-ft of torque.
One thing I noticed from C7pimps drawing is that the rear taillight is drawn bulging out and reward but in the CAD image that he drew over he suggested that there was a V shaped angle cut in to the light. I Hope his next rendering clarifies this.
One thing I noticed from C7pimps drawing is that the rear taillight is drawn bulging out and reward but in the CAD image that he drew over he suggested that there was a V shaped angle cut in to the light. I Hope his next rendering clarifies this.
I hope to God it doesn’t have bulging lights... that is probably my biggest pet peeve on automobiles. It’s tacky...only Ferrari pulls it off with its round lights...
And a big thanks to firstvettesoon and c7pimps efforts. All this takes a lot of work and time and they are generously doing it for free. Some people may doubt the info from c7pimp but if you have been on the forums enough you eventually can easily sniff out the bs, and it is clear that c7pimp is genuine. It is best not to bite the mouth of the gift horse that feeds you
Last edited by TripleBlack99; 02-18-2018 at 03:06 PM.
A big jump in power is not needed and that is not what they are after . Current power levels are fine. Going mid engine is about being better able to put that power to the ground and improving handling dynamics. The front engine rear wheel drive platform was pretty much maxed out and any further improvements to that platform would be marginal at this point. Putting the engine out back and incorporating a DCT transmission will be a game changer. GM is removing their self-imposed handcuffs against the likes of Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, etc.
Agreed with most of that (except all indications are that a high power model is likely). Cooling was the subject though, and even at 500hp levels, cooling is an issue. Getting air into the side inlets isn't a trivial issue as has already been pointed out in this thread. I believe the C8 design team is certainly addressing this, my concern is more with hoping they build in enough design margin for a good driver on a hot track day. I'm betting (and hoping) the C8 will be much improved here, based on their past experience.
The GT3 is a great example of how to do more, with less. And it doesn't get hot.
\/ This car didn't have enough cooling overhead....only 550hp and it would overheat with me in fewer laps than a stock A8 C7Z. I'm very interested in the side inlet airflow on the C8 as well.
As far as engine intakes go, anytime the car is actually running there is going to be such a drastically negative pressure area at the intake because of the engine that the physical size of the intake is more of a design factor than a functional one. Just look at the intakes for the 570hp Ferrari 458 Italia and 710hp McLaren 720S:
The 348 has inlets behind the side window for the airbox. The two engine radiator inlets before the spoiler are in a high pressure area because of the spoiler augmented by a very low pressure out the back of the car where there is the lowest pressure of all.
The McLaren inlets are split at a high pressure area for coolant and airbox. The type of surface and pressure gradient at intake design determines the efficiency of the heat exchange.
The airbox chamber and ducting is designed to pressurize the plenum and prevent supersonic velocities. The radiator inlet must go thru a velocity change from high to low as it expands over the radiator. Effectiveness of air passing over the radiator is velocity and temperature dependant. Many cars, even old ladies cars have all types of velocity control for intake.
Attachment or boundary layer control is very difficult to achieve. Aircraft slow intake velocity to subsonic and car intakes speed it up. Both achieve 0.93 Mach which is the cruise speed of a 747.
Separating the intake nozzle from the poor boundary layer of the aircraft removes turbulence.
The F4 uses a vari ramp with bleed air off the compressor to suck the boundary layer away and control flame outs from shadows over the intake caused by adverse yaw. Car aerodynamicists are doing the same. Cars have high Reynolds numbers on side surfaces.
Another Col. John Boyd design, the F15 and his later f16, were the first aircraft using his EMT theory and his own math to reduce energy loss in high G turns. A lot was learned from the F4.
The P51's radiator scoop actually produced thrust at low speeds because of the Meredith effect which is being used on some car designs.
The colors I use on this render depict pressure variations. The F12 has a clever way to reduce the thickness of the boundary layer down the side of the car by directing the airflow thru the front fenders from the hood to the side of the car. Below that groove is not a good place to have an intake.
(I just watched some F16s fly over Daytona.) This intake probably will go to plenum intake as you said, brakes and Xaxle. Flow is augmented by the rear outlets in a very low pressure area and as you said, suction from the intake. Much better to have higher pressure into the inlet.
Engine coolant radiator up front with exit over the roof is good. The turbo car's intercoolers will probably utilize different intakes that we have yet to see. We might see mods to the flying buttresses like the Lambos have.. Lots of possibilities behind the rear glass.
Some vari ramp possibilities on side intakes including bleed offs from turbines at partial throttle for attachment to intake ramp and yaw induced shadow management.
Last edited by Shaka; 02-19-2018 at 09:47 AM.
Reason: Spelling.
We have had too many good threads closed in the last six weeks.
I have learned a lot from a lot smart folks on this and other ME threads. Let us all please leave out snarky comments (both sides of the aisle) and keep our good threads going.
02-17-2018, 09:45 PM
