lt4obsesses

https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06
3619
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/camaro-zl1
3883
https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/r8...8-Coupe/392828
3737
https://www.caranddriver.com/mercede...l63-sl65/specs
4068
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/911-gt2-rs/specs
3660
https://www.caranddriver.com/ferrari/812-superfast
3900

I guess neither the AMG SL63, nor the Ferrari 812 Superfast are "sports cars" either?

JerriVette

The Europeans especially the Italians have been giving curb weight dry meaning no fluids for years.

The Italians have been notorious for the "special " meathods of describing their curb weights...

The Americans take the car they would sell in a dealership and weigh the vehicle.

I don't think you ll find Italian cars weighing what is published in street trim.

The camaro zL1 is an amazing performance vehicle....

It's devouring European exotics on the racetrack.

The apha chassis underpinning the camaro zL1 is extremely capable.

It's the body work that seems a little retro at this point and a little too long in tooth as it's very close to the fifth gen camaro that sold so well.

I believe the corvette has to go rear mid engine because the camaros alpha chassis is in fact so good...

Plus that will free the camaro design team to finally leave the body design that clearly mimics both the first and fifth gen.

Consumers are tired of the similar first and fifth gen styling and the pricing is too high compared to the other "pony cars"

Ford and dodge are giving away their cars compared to what the transaction prices are for the camaro models.

Dodge has a hit with the demon and hellcat and it's carrying the entire model line. Ford GT is value priced to start...even though consumers walk in to the dealership...they add options to elevate individual pricing.

Challengers awd 300 hp v6 is a huge hit as it also has a real backseat and the car is cheap.

Challengers body hasn't changed in many many years and all the tooling was paid for before FCA took over for free..so of course Sergio's team is just adding a supercharged beast of a motor to create a halo effect for all the challengers that come with v6 or hemi motor...

The ultimate poser cars and what really put volume in this pony car segment...

Challenger sales are eclipsing camaro sales each month quite often. Something they never did during the fifth gen years.

I believe mustang convertible and v6 challengers are heavy into rental car fleets as well to generate volume...

The camaro is the most expensive of the bunch and not as popular in the rental car game..

Bottom line the alpha based camaro SS, 1LE and zL1 machines are performance icons in their respective field...so close to corvette that the corvette has to go rear mid engine...

But very few corvette owners will ever go "down" to a camaro...they will hold their corvettes longer and just wait if the new car pricing continues to escalate further...when the c8 releases...

Right now you can buy a grand sport c7 manual for as little as 54 grand brand new.(MSRP $65,500) ..and the zL1 is what in the 60s...? And the ZL1 incentive deals aren't as good...

Corvette z51 s base msrp is $60500 and they are advertised here for 49 grand.
Standard c7 msrp is 55,500 and are being listed at 43 grand.

See the confusing trend that needs to end and will with the stunning new c8.

It's not the msrp that needs to go up...with the new mid rear engine c8 but rather the transaction price will move back to current msrp and a few thousand for the fact it's a new model...but pricing is not designed to move corvette consumers to camaros...it's designed to just move consumers back to msrp of the corvette in general.

That feat alone will generate tremendous extra income for the corvette brand..



The rear mid engine demand will allow GM to stick close to msrp for many many years as demand will be high...

I don't see discussed msrps of corvette c8 s escalating that much higher than current c7 model MSRPs ..maybe the options will go up in msrp pricing...(but the dealers will sell the car for many years at msrp without incentives)

What we will see is the lack of GM s need to offer 20 to 25 percent discounts to move corvettes for many years to come and that's how you build a brand...

THe discounting off msrp motivates consumers to purchase but it confuses the brand identity...

And that's something GM wants to avoid as much as possible...

JMO

Jinx

If GM is willing to make the next-generation Corvette press story something other than "all this and it's still only $58,000!" they could even out the demand curve by making all first-year cars Z51 with 2LT or 3LT, and not offer 1LT base cars until the third model year.

JustinStrife

I see proponents of an ME Corvette say this, but where is the proof?

elegant

How can their be proof until the car is on the market.... All that is factually known, is that the BGA capacity has been reduced from 40,500 units annually to 33,000 (both numbers using max overtime).

And since GM is planning to sell the C7 at least for two years along side of the ME, with again a reduced max output for the two models, if the demand is strong for the ME, coupled with C7 demand, price could remain at MSRP for years.

But until we fast-forward two or more years, the proof (either way) is what they are actually selling for; until then we are all conjecturing — which is what is 99.9% of all forum posts about the future.

JustinStrife

Of course there is no proof. That is my point.

PurpleLion

There is a difference between "sports" cars and "grand touring" cars! Not the same thing!

JerriVette

I'd suggest 30000 units every year would preclude the need for heavy discounts to move higher production volumes which degrade brand equity,.

Plan on less discounts throughout the c8 production...

I'd suggest msrp and none of this 20 percent off msrp ..

Those forum members hopeful for higher pricing will see that in transaction prices ....incentives will be gone and the msrp s will be a few grand higher and transaction costs will be very close to msrp throughout the slightly lower production run

Sure will deliver the higher costs to own so many forum members have been clamoring for. In the c8 section..

I don't quite understand some of the forum members desire to pay more for the c8 (closer to msrp transaction prices) but it sounds like you'll get what you want.



Figure to spend about 20 to 25 percent more than many of you did for the c7....as msrp will probably be more widely held without corporate incentives ...

I guess you guys were right.,

lt4obsesses

Right on, that is correct. However, not many out there really get the difference, not to mention that difference is very blurry when it comes to production street cars. As the comparison shows, the weight difference in these cars is about equal to one well fed passenger. The real designation is where and how that weight is placed in the chassis. But for the most part, in order to put a car on the street legally, then add the public demand for creature comforts and "connectivity" the days of feather light true "sports cars" are done, and have been for some time.

The current Corvette is certainly closer to that sports car ideal than the Camaro, there is no dispute about that.

Really, all I'm thinking is that GM will have to keep moving the Corvette forward. In so doing, the price of the car will have to go up and some point, many who are in the market today, will not be when this happens. So, GM is making the effort now to up brand the Camaro in an attempt to retain some of those customers. You may not be one of those customers, I get that, many won't be, but many will.

The Camaro is not a Corvette, that's clear. The point is, that for the money, it is a solid option.

B-Vette

I'd get into a Cadillac CTS-V Sedan before I got into another Camaro again. If I'm going with GM's Alpha platform, I might as well go with the model with better access to the back.

JerriVette

Consumers are just not interested in the CTS v or ATS v vehicles...

Great vehicles but just little interest...

Consumers are bored with variations of the same old same old...

That's why the corvettes going rear mid engine...

New twist in the corvette story that has lasted 65 years...

I don't believe msrp will go up that much....but transaction prices will jump 20 percent off today's corvette lineup....

elegant

Agree totally about “out the door” pricing climbing more than a little. I am guessing and hoping the options list on the ME would be considerable.

That is personally fine. Specifically, I would hope there is a “5 level interior” option. Would be fine with more and real leather, and would pay an additional $5K to have that choice. As I would for a $2,500 “front axle lift system”, and similarly for an active aero system.

Separately, I believe it was your post elsewhere, I too think that we are not even going to have a 1 level interior option.

PurpleLion

I have no problem with a 1 level option if it represents a significant weight savings - 75-100 lbs. I will be buying a "sports car". I would like to keep it as close to 3000 lbs. as possible!

elegant

I hope you are right, but personally doubt it will be less than 3,130 pounds — the lowest weight Corvette in a decade, e.g., the 2006 Z06. After it comes out, we will ask, “what was your ME weight target?”

Again, I hope you are correct!

PurpleLion

I guess I would be happy with 3200 lbs, i.e. lighter than a Ferrari!

dcbingaman

The Camaro sells about 75,000 units a year, and GM is gunning for the Mustang, which sells about 100-110K each year. This is a different market than the Corvette. If the idea is to move 33-40K in Corvette sales to Camaro to catch the Mustang, there is no reason to keep GM Bowling Green open. The $900M investment in Bowling Green says this is not the case. The Corvette will continue to sell about 33,000 cars each year to maximize the profit from Bowling Green. To do that will require an incremental increase in MSRP from Camaro, which has been about 50% (on average). I don't think that will change to a 100% increase in MSRP which some on this forum have postulated.

Second, Kai Spande stated at the Bash that the two biggest reasons for the investment were to improve the paint shop for composite-bodied cars, and to allow two models to be built on the same line. He didn't mean for Corvette and Camaro. There is no good reason to build Camaros in BG when GM has excess capacity for the Camaro elsewhere. He meant two models of a composite-bodied car. You don't need the new paint shop for a metal-bodied car. Those two models are anyone's guess, but I don't think one of them is on sale at a GM dealer today, hint, hint.

vetteship

The ZL1 Camaro is already a higher HP level than a Stingray. In any case, two completely different cars and different buyers.

"Could GMs Plan be to force Stingray buyers to Camaro by pricing the C8 high?
Simply put, no.

z edge

I've actually never driven a 5th or 6th gen Camaro (though i have owned several 2-4th gen cars) but honestly after sitting in a 5th Gen my first thought was the blind spots appeared horrendous. I suppose that was massaged a bit with the 6th gen car along with better looks, at least i would hope so.

ArmchairArchitect

Best thing GM could do for Corvette's image is make Corvette a separate brand and not have it fall under Chevy.

z edge

The 6th gen looks to be a big improvement over the 5th, imho, though the front on the 2020 model is a disaster.

I guess my only real problem with them is...they are everywhere.....which is fine for me since I don't own one. But if I did I would get tired of seeing myself coming and going. When I see a C7 on the road it's a surprise and a treat for me and most likely them as well.