Boiler_81

I have said pretty much the same thing since the C8 rumors started. The material costs and labor will be near to what we are seeing now. The components are pretty much the same and with modern modular assembly, I don't see a difference in assembly costs.

People look at the Italian mid engines and automatically think the mid engine configuration is driving the cost. It is not. The Italians charge so much because they can. Price has no relationship to cost. In the case of the Italians, they have a large gap between cost and price. People are willing to pay for the exclusivity of an Italian exotic.

In the case of the Corvette, people are not willing to pay those prices. If Corvette is going to be successful with a mid engine, it is going to have to be priced at what people are willing to pay. In order to be profitable, their production cost better be lower than the price. I think it will.

PuckDracon

That is what I am hoping for as well.

Keep the traditional layout Vette for the mid price point, release the ME as a different platform that sits above it, and possible have some overlap with the higher trim FE models like the Z06.

Will help flush out their line up - instead of just Camaro>Corvette it will be Camaro>Corvette>ME Platform. Add in all the trims and there will be a great performing GM coupe for almost every price point, from the stellar value V6 6th gen Camaro for ~$28k to whatever the flagship 6-figure ME will be (not saying the ME's will all be 6 figures since they may squeeze the base models under that, but any higher trim level model surely will be).

3 Z06ZR1

One of the C8's/ME will have the lt4 not NA.

NemesisC5

I agree and two completely different styled vehicles no matter how close the performance gap may narrow, literally apples and oranges. GM stated several years ago they discussed and considered making Corvette its own brand with individual dealerships selling and servicing several Corvette branded vehicles. The purpose of this "discussed change" in business model would be to leverage Corvette brand equity into a larger more profitable business unit. In the end it's ALL about generating more profit for GM and shareholders, this is not a humanitarian mission to make a mid engine Corvette affordable to the masses.

Last night after I signed off CF I "Googled" Bowling Green expansion and read once completed BG will have an additional 870,000 sq ft of floor space with "speculation of possibly more" before completed. It's inconceivable to me that publicly traded GM would increase floor space by "almost" one million sq ft only to manufacture a lower volume C8 mid engine replacement for 66 years of proven success and iconic style of front engine C7 (and all previous generations). In addition to construction costs incurred by GM you have to add additional utility costs, maintenance costs, insurance cost and property taxes to this investment. In my opinion there would have to be much more than merely a transition from front engine C7 to mid engine C8 to support all costs incurred.

JustinStrife

And of course we both know there's even more to it than just the things you and I have argued. But we're not going to get through to some people here.

Well, we'll know in a couple of years, on way or another.

tcinla

I could buy a camaro... if they slap a 'camaro' badge on a corvette...

JoesC5

Plus the fact that GM entered into an agreement with the state of Kentucky, that they(GM) will increase the workforce in Bowling Green by ~270 employees, in exchange for some favorable tax breaks from the state.

You don't increase the floor space by the size of three Walmart Super Centers and also increase the workforce by 28% just to build the same number of Corvettes(or less) selling at the same price(or a couple of thousand more).

conceptmachine

I just couldn't see running a C7 for 2 more model years into the ME run at small increase in price over the C7.
If you think C7s have steep discounts now, the '19s and '20s would be collecting dust for an eternity on dealer showrooms.

tcinla

Phasing out the base model as the next gen approaches makes sense. By then you get to charge more and have worked costs down. To GM a GS would be similar to producing a base model by then. So declining sales, due to expectations of the next model, wouldn't be as big a financial hit as it would be otherwise.

tcinla

From a certain perspective, it does make sense that GM would not be developing a FE C8 along side a ME car.... Unless, as in the 928/911 scenario brought up earlier, people continue buying FE corvettes.

Do the FE sales figures (trends) bear out that sales are maintaining levels to justify keeping it around ?

Jeff V.

The last couple years of sales have been weird because GM did the short 2018 run, and pulled 2019 ahead by 6-7 months. So they had to load up a lot of rebates to move the unsold cars.

Year over year the sales look pretty strong. There's a big lull in 2008 (09 model year) due to the economic downturn, but that's to be expected.

https://www.corvsport.com/corvette-sales-volume-year/

NemesisC5

This chart was from the link provided by Jeff V.

Corvette#2

It's certainly possible. I based my other guess on the leaked document talking about a conventional V-8, and two small displacement dohc turbo engines, if I remember right, a 4.5 and 5.4 liter.

It seems like ~50hp or so is the predictable upgrade to the base engine between generations. LT1-LS1-LS2-LT1 So I expect the base ME/C8 to have somewhere in the low 500's.

Although it's happened before, I would be blown away if the base C8 has the power of the outgoing C7 Z06. I mean if the cheapest C8 has 650hp, the Z06 and ZR1 would need to be ridiculous to justify the upgrade. So I thought around 500-525 for the base. Maybe something like the LT4 ZR1 engine will go in the C8 Z06, and the new dohc tt in the eventual ZR1 with like 900hp ? If that's realistic, I don't know. I think that's more power than just about any production car besides ultra exotic bugattis, and koenigseggs.

Jeff V.

Sure, if they're building a car of similar quality and complexity to what we have today. But we already know they're doing things like coilovers and a DCT. Those cost more than leaf springs and conventional transmissions. If they use advanced materials and techniques to get the mass down, and if they increase the quality of the interior or add more customization options, those all add costs. Even things like colored seat belts add costs because they have to be certified for crash worthiness. I was actually pretty surprised when they offered the red ones on the C7. If the chassis and electrical architecture is engineered to eventually accept a hybrid system, that also adds cost. LED or laser headlights (pending legality), 360* cameras, wireless charging and connectivity for mobile devices, running additional plumbing from one end of the car to the other...it all adds cost.

It'd be pretty pointless to build the same C7 with the engine in the back. This will need to be a significant leap forward in all respects, which will add cost.

JerriVette

Didn't the technology shift from c4 to c5 yet the price increase was only 295 dollars or there abouts.

Hopefully the optionlist will be so vast that all those that feel the need to spend as much as possible will get their needs met.

Boiler_81

Sure, upgrades may add some incremental costs but it's not going to be nearly the huge additional production cost many have speculated. Bill's post #43 is pretty much correct.

Many of the items you list below are minimal or no additional cost. I have had many years of experience as a tier one supplier of electrical systems, interior systems and some exterior parts. Many people would be surprised the see how small the cost difference is between a system for a mid class vehicle and a higher end vehicle.

I would also be surprised if there was a large cost delta between the current automatic and a DCT at the volume GM will be buying them. Coilovers are not exotic and will not be a big increase.

Of course price is independent of cost. The only stipulation is there better be enough people willing to pay a price higher than cost to make the endeavor worthwhile.

We will all find out in about a year what the real deal is. Then we can all start the speculation of what the C9 will be!

Jeff V.

I'm originally from Detroit. I've had friends in the industry, and I've worked positions associated with the industry. Yes, this stuff is ridiculously cheap when you compare it to retail price. It's the difference between buying 10,000 of something vs buying 10 of something.

With that said....if GM ends up selling 3/4 of a quarter million dollar Ferrari 488, then they'd be negligent to let that out the door for the same $60,000 that will get you into a C7 today.

As someone pointed out elsewhere, GM does not exist to make European exotica accessible to the moderately successful American. GM exists to make their shareholders as much money as possible. Positioning this mid-engine car as a more usable, near daily driven alternative to a boutique supercar would fulfill that goal nicely. I don't think this ME car exists as a replacement for today's Corvette. I think it exists for someone who wants near-Ferrari performance in a package they can drive to work occasionally and that they're not scared shitless to leave with a valet.

So even if it doesn't cost that much more than today's C7, it will cost more, and it will sell for a fair amount more.

C5Driver

I think the mid engine car will be the one and only C8 Corvette. If a new front engine car was truly in the making and lets say a 2022 model out on Dealers lots in September of 2021 thats only 3 years away. That would mean a new front engine Corvette would already have to be almost half way through its development cycle. No one has spotted any test mules and I have heard nothing at all about any buzz of a new front engine Corvette. This leads me to believe the mid engine car is it.

lt4obsesses

I do agree with this. I really believe that the mid engine car is a separate model, and the C8 will remain front engine. It is absolutely absurd to think that GM put all that money in to BG to just make one car on one chassis.

MikeG37

They could be running around right now in plain sight and no one has noticed them. These C6 bodied C7s began to be spotted less than 18 months before the 1-13-13 reveal.