Boiler_81

It will come down to where GM thinks it can position the ME in the market. GM just can't push an ME Corvette into the space occupied by the Italians and have people lined up to buy it. Given that, a high volume reasonably priced strategy seems appropriate. If that is the case, the price delta would be the current cost plus the normal generational bump plus a small amount for the additional features. Time will tell.

Jeff V.

I think this thing will be priced to undercut the R8 and NSX rather than the high end stuff.

JerriVette

A stingray z51 pretty much takes out the recently replaced Ferrari California in performance ....and in many people's eyes in looks but costs 55 grand versus the Ferrari californias 200 grand plus options...

I don't see why a rear mid engine platform actually developed just before old GM s bankruptcy where all the research and development costs we're jetisoned with the bankruptcy of 2009...would cost so much more than today's model...

So for the most part the added cost for rear mid engine should be minimal for the upcoming 2020 model

Add in the same ohv LT1 derived engine that's an offshoot of a Silverado engine.,,so that's not a huge cost increase factor..

The production site has always maintained a dedicated chassis corvette and producing a chassis with a rear mid engine location versus a front mid engine location really doesn't cost more to produce..

The current c7 sports models z51, gas and z06 all have a Ton of remote radiators and coolers etc so that doesn't add much cost to the c8 model with the exception of various changes in location ...

I do agree the transaxle bought From an outside supplier could cost about five grand more....but a planned 30k unit volume a year could entice the vendor to bring in some added value..

GM does buy an outside supplier manual gearbox so there is history to do such a thing without massive price increases as the manual gearbox from I believe tremec has been the standard gearbox....

Let's throw in the possibility that Cadillac has shown some interest in the c8 platform by JDN a couple of years back as part of JDN s plan of offering an Audi R8 competitor to elevate cadillacs stature in the market as he did with Audi...

...and a portion of any of the actually added costs could have been partially funded by the cadillac division and again there is potiential for added value in the pricing of the c8...

This joint cost theory by the Cadillac division is based off their involvement with the c6 generation and Cadillac funding the various changes Fromm c5 to c6 to accommodate the production feasibility of the Cadillac XLR...(before JDn s arrival from Audi)

The investment to the c6 generation changes from c5 were funded by cadillacs quite heavily...which is giving credence to the c8 developments cost sharing by cadillacs quite a bit of validity.

These are all the reasons I think starting prices of the c8 will be a few grand more than today's models..whether it's the base standard stingray or z51 ..that I can't guess...

Btw

This is all in Good fun guys...whatever ends up being the final base msrp will be what it will be.

One more thing.....I personally believe the camaro design team will when the c8 arrives...be allowed to evolve the camaro s styling in a more revolutionary manner as the 6 th gen camaro is an amazing performance platform with somewhat too much evolutionary styling of the fifth gen and its sales have been softer than expected...

I'd hope that as the corvette goes rear mid engine the camaro radically gets a 7 th gen iteration on its existing excellent platform that transforms the nice but somewhat long in tooth styling into something's totally different.....more along the lines of today's Ferrari portifino...(I'm sure I'm dreaming but hot dam that is one good looking 2 plus 2)

Throw a Chevy motor and trans in ...on an alpha platform...style it like the portifino and I'd pony up the cash for that...with the little 2 plus 2 seating...I'd buy that for my better half and the rear mid engine for myself..

I always would rather give my money to GM...there product development is awesome...and maintaince and repair is always been reasonable compared to vehicles that cost 4 times as much and almost perform as well as GM s two killer sports cars...the camaro SS, 1LE , ZL1...and of course corvettes..

The camaro portion of my future product insights are totally based on nothing other than a few drinks....

The corvette based insights or personal projections are based on actual historical evidence of past corvette team actions on previous generations

DebRedZR1

NOT going to happen. There is so much speculation and misinformation. If I wanted a Camaro I would buy one not be FORCED to buy anything especially something I have ZERO Interest in.

MikeG37

Just look at the price difference between the Z51 and a ZR1, and they are well over 90% the exact same car. You can buy two Z51 2 LTs for the price of one base ZR1.. they're built on the same assembly line by the same people using the same tools and take the same amount of time to build. Based on materials and labor alone there's no way in the world the different parts used (that would easily fit in the bed of a small truck) cost GM an extra $60,000. I think the development cost spread over their projected production #'s, and what GM believes the market will accept sets the price.

IMO the mid engine car is an additional model that will start around the price of a modestly optioned Z06/loaded Grand Sport, and fully loaded will easily exceed the price of an all option ZR1.

Sometime this year/early next year we'll start hearing rumors and seeing pictures of weird looking C7's buzzing around Michigan that will turn out to be the actual C8.. an evolution of what we have now. In January next year while Tadge is introducing the mid engine car he'll soothe the mob, with their torches and pitch forks, by letting it be known that this new car isn't a replacement for their VERY successful, 66 year old layout. But he won't give us any details because he "can't discuss future products"..

Jeff V.

I suspect they'll use a phrase similar to "an exciting new addition to the Corvette family".

MikeG37

^^

NemesisC5

Apple includes exclusive premium features (dual lense camera for example) only on their premium iPhone X and although cost doesn't escalate a vast amount, their profit margin % does escalate a vast amount because many people want and are willing to pay for the feature. Samsung recently revised their business model to copy Apple's for increased profit.

Charging top dollar for premium features is smarter and proven successful at generating higher profits amongst companies with strong brand equity. Compare this to upstart companies that must offer premium features at discount price just to get your attention and bump sales. Pick a brand or product with well strong brand equity whether it be automobile, private aircraft, watercraft, watches, lawnmowers, etc. and you will pay a higher margin % for premium features. If GM neglected opportunities to create higher returns for shareholders a CEO would lose their job. An opportunity exists to add the ME halo car (Zora?) carrying a host of premium features to the Corvette brand and be manufactured alongside the current C7 and after that alongside the front engine C8.

We work in a capitalistic system that never sleeps seeking to develop the next "silver bullet" that will generate more profit, not the same profit.

tcinla

It's interesting to see that C7 sales never topped c6 sales in it's best year.

NemesisC5

The right side of this chart was slightly cut off. The actual numbers and years are below and it was very very close but the C7 eclipsed the C6 in total units sold.

C7 2018 = 40,689 units
C6 2007 = 40,561 units

Jinx

Camaro and Corvette have always overlapped.

Old Corvette buyers get old and move on; new buyers come to the brand -- whether the product evolves a little or a lot. With every new generation there are absolutely some Corvette fans who don't like the new stuff and walk away.

GM is a belt-and-suspenders company. They parse out risk. When Cadillac reinvented its sedans in BMW's image, it kept the big front-driver. When they debut a new platform, it's usually with an existing powertrain.

They completely reinvented the Bowling Green assembly plant -- building the same old C7. They learned new assembly tech using a thoroughly-debugged late-cycle car and supply chain.

The new Bowling Green isn't about building a mid-engine Corvette and a front-engine Corvette side-by-side. It's about building whatever low-volume high-margin vehicles they might want to build.

They could build an electric sports car for Cadillac, or next-gen crossovers evolved from CT6 for both Cadillac and Corvette.

There are about 5,000 buyers a year for a 1LT Corvette coupe (13% of MY2014 production, 52% of MY2017 base coupe production).

Camaro will be all-new again a year after the CT5 debuts. (ATS and CTS end in 2019.)

GM has limited engineering resources, especially development resources that smooth the rough edges and make cars great.

GM also has limited marketing resources. Look at their product release timing over the past decade.

GM can't let a front-engine Corvette stagnate, because they can't let Camaro stagnate, lest Mustang eat their lunch. But maintaining development on both front-engine and mid-engine Corvettes would consume a lot of limited resources.

I posit that committing to the mid-engine chassis for Corvette is the more conservative approach -- the more GM approach. C8 will creep (not leap) upmarket, C7 will overlap short-term, Camaro and CT5 will serve the front-engine GT/sportscar niche, and long-term Bowling Green will build a Corvette sports car and something that isn't a Corvette or isn't a sports car.

JoesC5

What!!!!!!

Calendar year 2017, Corvette sold 25,079 in the US and (estimated) 27,500 worldwide.

In calendar year 2018(year to date), Corvette sold 1005 in the US and (estimated) 1100 world wide.

Sales of C7's have dropped each year as shown on the graph(including the right side that was chopped off).

NewYuriCity

I believe he meant 40,689 units for 2016 instead of 2018:

https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2016-...bers-released/

MikeG37

Much better chart, and it's broken down by model too. The C6 and C7 totals look almost identical their first 3 model years.

JoesC5

Maybe so, but 2016 wasn't cut off the right side of the graph as he was apparently trying to imply that sales of 2018 made a huge jump for 2018.

The 40,689 units were the number of 2016 model year Corvettes built, not the number sold in calendar year 2016.

GM way overbuilt the model year 2016, and it let to massive discounts to get rid of them in calendar year 2017. The glut of 2016's led to a reduction in model year 2017's being built which also let to the shut down of the plant for 3 months(which GM then used to do the changeover to the assembly lines).


Sales of the C7 have in fact decreased each year. Production numbers vary from sales numbers, each year. While GM built 40,689 2016 C7's, they only sold ~33,000 Corvettes in 2016. And the next year(2017) they only sold ~27,500 C7's.

JoesC5

This chart is the number of cars built each model year, not the number that was sold each model year. The other chart was the number of Corvettes sold each calendar year, not built each calendar year.

If you want to know what the missing column is(model year 2017) for the above chart....

Coupe...........21,165
convertible......4,344
Z06................7,273

Total.............32,782

If you want the breakdown for the 2008 MY C6 to compare....

Coupe...........20,030
convertible......7,545
Z06................7,731

Total.............35,310

For the first five model years of the C6, GM BUILT 164,220(and had some left over going into the sixth model year of production).

For the first five model years, of the C7, GM BUILT 154,675(and had some left over going into the sixth model year of production).

At the close of each model year GM does release the number built, but they only disclose the number that are sold each month(retail sales by the dealers). Since, at any given time, sales will usually include multiple model years during any given month, there is no way to say exactly how many (for example) 2016's were sold during August of 2015, as there will be left over 2015's(that went out of production in June of 2015) that were also sold during that same month. GM does not breakdown(for the public) the number of each calendar model year Corvette sold in each month. For example, of the 1005 Corvettes sold last month(January 2018) we don't know how many of them were left over 2017 CY models and how many were new 2018 CY production. That is true for almost every month of sales as there is always left over previous model year cars that are still sitting on dealers lots while the next model year cars are being delivered to that same dealership.

NewYuriCity

This was probably done to account for the shortened 2018 model year, where only 9,686 were built and production only resumed roughly 3 weeks ago

JoesC5

I'm not 100% sure of the exact date that production of the 2018's resumed, but I believe it was back in November, 2017, not the first week of February, 2018(3 weeks ago.

True that they only built 9,686 model year 2018's, they sold more than that during calendar year 2017, due to overproduction in the two years prior.

NewYuriCity

Yes you are correct, I saw that they had only begun 2019 production roughly 3 weeks ago on January 29th 2018, the plant resumed work November 6th.

I do not for a second, however, think that Chevrolet produced so many cars in 2016 for any other reason than to have sufficient supply for the scheduled shortened 2018 model year.

JoesC5

That makes no sense. Why would GM over produce in 2016 just to heavily discount them long before any planned shutdown of the plant. It makes more sense that they would instead over produce the 2017 models to have cars to sell during the planned shutdown, but instead they had to cut production drastically for 2017 model year because they had too many left over unsold 2016's.

You don't over build 2016's to have them sit for two years until the 2018's were stopped for the planned shutdown. You over build the 2017's just before the 2018's start in production to have cars to sell.

GM just blew it thinking their C7 was going to sell above what the C6 sold in it's first five years. I believe that the sales of the 2014 and 2015 C7's wouldn't have been near what they were if the economy hadn't been so bad resulting in Corvette sales were miserable during 2009 through 2013. There was a hell of a lot of people that wanted a new Corvette during that time(2009-2013), but couldn't buy one as they either didn't have a job, or they had a serious cut in salary, or they didn't know how secure their job was, and a new expensive toy was out of the question. They waited until things were looking up, before buying, and by that time the C6 was out of production(as well as being long in the tooth).

It is a well known fact that SALES of the C7 have been declining every year since it's introduction.