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No because most people have already graduated from the Camaro and moved up-scale to a Corvette, Porsche, BMW or whatever. Sure there might be some overlap, but not much! Kind of apples and oranges or Budweiser and Dom P (slight exaggeration).
I had a Camaro when I was in my late teens and still liked them up to my mid 20's but after 30 my taste evolved so now I have zero desire in them. But I do hope GM moves the C8 slightly even more upscale and creates a little more separation in price between the two models. I wouldn't mind a C8 priced $70-$150K+.
Varying packages from 650HP base for $65k to Top of line Supercar ZORA for $155k
Your dreaming if you think the base ME will.have 650 HP and be priced at 65k.
There may well be a 650 version but expect it to be 90k plus option.
The C8 base will be old technology when it come to the engine. A updated version of the LT1 and I believe will start in the 69k range and quickly go well into the 85 range with z51 and 3lt options.
My 2014 Z51 3lt was 75k in Oct of 2013
My 2015 Z06 3lt was 93k Jan 2015
My 2016 Z06 3lt Z07 was 110k plus another 19k for the Callaway sc757 package for 130k total.
If you add 5k for new model designation and 5k for the DCT Trans that's about where these ME will be priced as above plus 10k
Your dreaming if you think the base ME will.have 650 HP and be priced at 65k.
There may well be a 650 version but expect it to be 90k plus option.
The C8 base will be old technology when it come to the engine. A updated version of the LT1 and I believe will start in the 69k range and quickly go well into the 85 range with z51 and 3lt options.
My 2014 Z51 3lt was 75k in Oct of 2013
My 2015 Z06 3lt was 93k Jan 2015
My 2016 Z06 3lt Z07 was 110k plus another 19k for the Callaway sc757 package for 130k total.
If you add 5k for new model designation and 5k for the DCT Trans that's about where these ME will be priced as above plus 10k
hi vettman...interesting take for sure.... are you thinking then. 150k for a ME... all out? then...?? it actually wouldn't surprise me if it was 150k for a "full on" ME... if thats the case... I'll be in a 911 turbo s... quick... 150k for a Vette .. will be impossible to justify when 200 will get a martini turbo s with full warranty... and no bugs...
Hmm. I really don't buy new. I would rather see someone else take the hit for driving it off the lot. Corvette's are a model that it's quite easy to find a really low milage garage queen. In the C6's I have, I have already purchased my dream car. Only one other dream car on my list, and that's a Ferrari.
Camero? A first gen RS/SS, past that? Not a chance in hell. Yes I have driven the new ones. Still unimpressed.
Anyone thinking the c8 will be a 650hp car for 65k is smoking crack. A c7 Z06 sells for 100k currently.
if anything base c8 with about 500hp will sell for about 70k or more.
Dreaming big is fun though. Dont think GM is going to worry about folks with 60k budgets any longer.
Other than the typical yearly inflation price adjustment why would the price of a C8 be any higher than a C7?
They will both consist of the same parts just like any other car or truck, both will have plastic bodies with about the same amount of material. The only difference will be where the occupants sit and where the engine/drivetrain are located. Same parts gets you the same cost whether front or mid engine, same body materials and amounts gets you the same cost and there is no difference in assembly cost based on where the parts are located. Every car/truck manufactured takes in the range of 19 to 20 total assembly hours charged to that vehicle. The only difference in price will be what they can charge for it. For example it doesn't cost more than a few percentage points more to build a Escalade than it does a Cruze but there is a huge percentage point gap in price. For example a Cruze may cost GM 95% of the cost of an Escalade to build but the Cruze sells for 25% of the price of an Escalade. After the initial engineering and manufacturing tooling investments are paid off the Corvette probably costs about the same to build as an Escalade (which is a little bit more than a Cruze) and the sale price of each isn't much different.
Bill
The chassis on the C8 will not need the Torque Tube since there is no bending force from the front to the rear under hard acceleration. THis makes the C8 LESS expensive to build than the C7.
I don't understand why when it's a mid-engine design it has to be so expensive. Why does putting the engine right behind the passenger compartment make manufacturing so much more expensive?
Anyone thinking the c8 will be a 650hp car for 65k is smoking crack. A c7 Z06 sells for 100k currently.
if anything base c8 with about 500hp will sell for about 70k or more.
Dreaming big is fun though. Dont think GM is going to worry about folks with 60k budgets any longer.
The chassis on the C8 will not need the Torque Tube since there is no bending force from the front to the rear under hard acceleration. THis makes the C8 LESS expensive to build than the C7.
I agree. That torque tube / drive shaft, with required bell housings, has cost (and weight).
Originally Posted by theandies
I don't understand why when it's a mid-engine design it has to be so expensive. Why does putting the engine right behind the passenger compartment make manufacturing so much more expensive?
Anyone thinking the c8 will be a 650hp car for 65k is smoking crack. A c7 Z06 sells for 100k currently.
if anything base c8 with about 500hp will sell for about 70k or more.
Dreaming big is fun though. Dont think GM is going to worry about folks with 60k budgets any longer.
but a camaro ss instead.
That is what made the Corvette. The guy or gal that's "made it" and has always dreamed about owning a Corvette and DRIVING IT. That entry level experience right now is around 60k in this day and age and right now the Corvette is profitable. Why would GM be so stupid as to repel this entry level customer which I bet accounts for 75 to 80% of Corvette sales. Base models with a few option boxes checked. Don't get me wrong as I can see the greedy executives doing it.
I can tell you I'd not go for a Camaro SS instead of a Corvette. I'd just not buy a GM product. If it came down to that I'd either buy a used Corvette or a Dodge Challenger. I think the new Camaro is UGLY IMHO.
Anyone thinking the c8 will be a 650hp car for 65k is smoking crack. A c7 Z06 sells for 100k currently.
if anything base c8 with about 500hp will sell for about 70k or more.
Dreaming big is fun though. Dont think GM is going to worry about folks with 60k budgets any longer.
but a camaro ss instead.
There are (12) BRAND NEW Z06's for sale on Autotrader within 15 miles of my house - all from Chevy dealers. (2) 2019, (6) 2018, and (4) 2017's. All fully loaded. Medium ASKING Prices: 2017 $79K, 2018 $83K, 2019 $85K. Fully loaded 3LZ's, etc. The Z06 may have been MSRPed higher, but they are selling for between $79K and $85K. If GM thinks they will sell more than a couple thousand 650 HP C8's for over $100K, THEY are smoking crack. Base C8's will sell for about $65K and the next version up (Z06 equivalent) will sell for about $85K. The market has already spoken.
Early adopters may pay more, but they are really a small fraction of the market. I would expect that most MY2020 cars will sell close to MSRP in 2019, but discounts will start in 2020. We are also headed into a recession late next year (due to the trade war and rising interest rates), and that will have a negative impact on car sales and car valuations.
We do not know what the ME will start out at. For sure there are close to as many opinions here as there are members, e.g., ranging from $55,000 to $150,000 to start.
I however recently called two dealers and asked them the following question. Both are dealers I have known for years and who each share with me 95% of what I ask as long as I do not post what dealership I got the info from...
“What percentage of your new Corvette sales are out the door at $70,000 or less” (not including state, excise, similar taxes nor tags)?
The answer from both of them was the same, “roughly 20%.”
Hi, John. I think the guys are bluffing. The percentage under $70K is probably more like 40-50%. Take look at this chart from the BASH on 2017 sales. Almost 80% of 2017 sales were Stingrays or Grand Sports. Only 17% are verts, (which sell for a bit more). I am guessing the average Stingray sold for $65K or less, and the average GS sold for $75K or less. That means that probably ~70% of sales had to have been $75K or less, making room for the dudes who bought ALL the goo-gaa's and paid "the big potato". The Z06's probably sold for about $85-90K on average, so they raise the total average a bit, but they only represent about 20% of total sales.
absolutely dead on.. the FE platform is maximized by the camaro...w magnetic ride...etc.. and that will take the 65k usd crowd... I agree its ugly...and needs to get something new going.. the old school throwback just is aged... but performance wise.. camaro basically is a Vette now... till the ME comes out...and it better be real, real good if they want 120k for it.
I agree. That torque tube / drive shaft, with required bell housings, has cost (and weight).
Exactly.
The mid engine Cayman does not have a torque rube/ driveshaft with required bellhousings and I starts at $56,900 + delivery, processing and handling fee.
Since the 911 Carrera starts at $91,100 + delivery, processing and handling fee, then I take it that the reason it is $34,200 more than the mid engine Cayman is because it has a costly and heavy torque tube/driveshaft with required bellhousings.
Oh, you say that the 911 Carrera doesn't have a costly and heavy torque tube/driveshaft with required bell housings. Then please tell me why is it 60% more expensive than the $56,900 Cayman?
Could it be because Porsche wants a price difference so that the two different configurations are not in direct price competition with each other, Just like maybe GM doesn't want a mid engine Corvette to be in direct price competition with a cheaper front engine model.
The mid engine Cayman does not have a torque rube/ driveshaft with required bellhousings and I starts at $56,900 + delivery, processing and handling fee.
Since the 911 Carrera starts at $91,100 + delivery, processing and handling fee, then I take it that the reason it is $34,200 more than the mid engine Cayman is because it has a costly and heavy torque tube/driveshaft with required bellhousings.
Oh, you say that the 911 Carrera doesn't have a costly and heavy torque tube/driveshaft with required bell housings. Then please tell me why is it 60% more expensive than the $56,900 Cayman?
Could it be because Porsche wants a price difference so that the two different configurations are not in direct price competition with each other, Just like maybe GM doesn't want a mid engine Corvette to be in direct price competition with a cheaper front engine model.
And your point is ? The ZL1 Camero has almost 200 more horsepower and yet the Grand Sport is within .12 seconds ! Put a Lingenfelter cam in the Grand Sport for $9K and it's no contest. This a comparison of a great chassis GT car with a 650 HP engine in a 4000# stock car.
if you use your logic, nobody should be buying Porsche 911 GT3's either, since the ZL1 is likely faster than it. The problem with the ZL1 is it's a brute. It is about as useful on the street as a NASCAR stocker because it will knock your fillings out in the first mile. On top of that it is butt ugly, inside and out. There are a lot of reasons people buy cars - lap times really don't rank that high with most. If you really want to compare Camaro ZL1 to a Corvette, look to a Z06. In today's market, the difference in price is only about $5K.
06-20-2018, 05:55 PM
