Wider-Bodied ME After Year 1? - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Notices
C8 General Discussion The place to discuss the next generation of Corvette, be it mid-engine, Zora, or whatever form it may take.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Wider-Bodied ME After Year 1?

Reply

 
 
 
Old 03-02-2018, 03:14 PM
  #1  
elegant
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
elegant's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,591
Thanked 1,191 Times in 588 Posts
Default Wider-Bodied ME After Year 1?

I was talking with a couple of long-term Corvette friends and while we believe we will see a HP version(s) starting in year 2 (e.g., more power, bigger, maybe actively aero), we are all thinking that the ME will appear as a wide-body in year one, and not gain body panel width thereafter.

What do you think?

Last edited by elegant; 03-02-2018 at 03:31 PM.
elegant is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to elegant For This Useful Post:
Jinx (03-03-2018)
Old 03-02-2018, 03:56 PM
  #2  
gthal
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,018
Thanked 76 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Given the success of the mid-cycle wide-body in the last few generations of the Corvette, I'm not sure why GM would change the philosophy. Introduce the ME, sell a lot of them because they are new and awesome and when sales level off/slow, introduce a wide-body to bump sales until the C9.

It would surprise me if they mess with that very successful sales formula?

Last edited by gthal; 03-02-2018 at 03:57 PM.
gthal is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to gthal For This Useful Post:
elegant (03-02-2018), JerriVette (04-29-2018), zhopper05 (04-09-2018)
Old 03-02-2018, 04:27 PM
  #3  
elegant
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
elegant's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,591
Thanked 1,191 Times in 588 Posts
Default

You make a very good point. What we were thinking, perhaps wrongly, was that for a given generational model, such as a Ferrari 458, or certain Lambo models when they juice them up in a second or later year, most do not go to a wide body style, but instead most go with power and aero add-ones — again leaving the body width as is.

Secondly, if the C7.R is “long in the tooth” as some allege (even though we won the last two years in a row in the U.S.), given what Doug Fehan just confirmed about being required to stay with a specific body for a three year period once IMSA certified, if Corvette racing wishes to bring out the ME.R next year co-junc with the ME itself, that would prevent Corvette racing from changing a wider body style until year 4. Of course, we can “reverse argue” that as Corvette racing is doing fantastically well to this point in time, they could wait and not campaign the ME.R until the year after next (co-junc with the 2021 ME).

Lastly, to “juice up” second year sales if the ME’s body does not get wider, that second year could be the year when the “DOHC, twin stage, twin turbo motors,” active aero, and other major ME enhancements are first introduced.

Not disagreeing with the validity of your post gthal, just thinking out loud... I sure as hell have no inside knowledge either way.

Last edited by elegant; 03-02-2018 at 04:29 PM.
elegant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 06:22 PM
  #4  
gthal
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
gthal's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,018
Thanked 76 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by elegant View Post
You make a very good point. What we were thinking, perhaps wrongly, was that for a given generational model, such as a Ferrari 458, or certain Lambo models when they juice them up in a second or later year, most do not go to a wide body style, but instead most go with power and aero add-ones — again leaving the body width as is.

Secondly, if the C7.R is “long in the tooth” as some allege (even though we won the last two years in a row in the U.S.), given what Doug Fehan just confirmed about being required to stay with a specific body for a three year period once IMSA certified, if Corvette racing wishes to bring out the ME.R next year co-junc with the ME itself, that would prevent Corvette racing from changing a wider body style until year 4. Of course, we can “reverse argue” that as Corvette racing is doing fantastically well to this point in time, they could wait and not campaign the ME.R until the year after next (co-junc with the 2021 ME).

Lastly, to “juice up” second year sales if the ME’s body does not get wider, that second year could be the year when the “DOHC, twin stage, twin turbo motors,” active aero, and other major ME enhancements are first introduced.

Not disagreeing with the validity of your post gthal, just thinking out loud... I sure as hell have no inside knowledge either way.
Part of me doesn't want them to put out a wide body because then I'll need to sell my ME C8 and buy it
gthal is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 07:24 PM
  #5  
tooold2race
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Keller Texas
Posts: 210
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Back top my earlier thoughts.... With the current 4 models of the C7 covering everything from the high $50K market to around $150K, I submit that the C8 will be positioned at the HIGH side of the market.... hence it could very well come out fully loaded with lots of power and 'class leading' features.

Then as the C7 fades out into the sunset (and all the 'early adapters' have that high end C8 in their garage) the General will bring out some 'down market' variations of the ME to fill in the gaps left by the FE models that have been phased out.

That would also allow the General to add new technology (ie: hybrid or electric powertrains, etc) to continue to keep the top dog version of the C8 relavent in the marketplace.

That's my way of saying I think the body at introduction will not change much beyond going 'drop top' or targa.

Just a thought.....
tooold2race is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 12:41 PM
  #6  
Jinx
CF Senior Member
 
Jinx's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 7,596
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

I can't think of any performance car that was introduced at the high end, then supplemented by lower-performance versions in subsequent model years.

I do like the idea of the new car not taking on swelled fenders in subsequent years.

Z07 provides a method of distinguishing higher-performance models without adding flared fenders to your flared fenders.

They can also denote Serious Business by changing the side intakes without increasing overall width.
Jinx is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 03:13 PM
  #7  
tooold2race
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Keller Texas
Posts: 210
Thanked 97 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Well here's another thought..... The new ME could be priced at the LOW end of the Corvette line.... say in the $60-70K range and thus eliminate the base, Z51 and Grand Sport. Then as the 'performance' versions are introduced, they would phase out the Z06 and ZR1!!!

That would allow for more aggressive exterior styling to follow in years 2 and so on.

Anybody feel that the Corvette line will become a full series (like Porsche and Ferrari) with everything including sedans and SUV's???

By the way, the most recent additions to the Ferrari line was the California back 10 years ago, priced at the bottom of their line, although they always seem to slipped in various 'special editions'.....
tooold2race is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 04:48 PM
  #8  
TripleBlack99
CF Senior Member
 
TripleBlack99's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2002
Posts: 1,010
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

when you really really want to up the track performance you generally want to go with wider tires, which a lot of times is going to mean wider fenders, for example 2018 911 gt3 to gt2 rs.
Knowing corvette, judging by recent history, if they go to build a Zora it will very likely be wider than the base model, "because physics". Wider contact patch means better cornering in general and better cornering mean better track times in general. And when you go for broke like they kind of do with the zr1s and z06s etc. you want to take the physics up to another level. plus the extra width helps stability. and looks badder assier. I guess maybe they could start out wider, and have enough space to fit wider wheels later on, but since that is not generally what happens, maybe there are good reasons they dont do that, relating to suspension geometry and whatnot, i think a suspension engineer would know, or maybe its packaging considerations i.e. that space could be used for other things like cargo etc.

Last edited by TripleBlack99; 03-03-2018 at 05:12 PM.
TripleBlack99 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 09:44 PM
  #9  
pkincy
CF Senior Member
 
pkincy's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2003
Location: San Diego Ca
Posts: 3,629
Thanked 390 Times in 311 Posts
Default

I am wildly speculating as we all are, but I expect the same formula they have used near forever. Normal car the first year and performance variants afterwards. I plan on waiting until the WB is out. For a couple of reasons. Will not pay dealer pack and also want to let the teething problems be solved.

Last edited by pkincy; 03-03-2018 at 09:45 PM.
pkincy is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 10:15 PM
  #10  
Dominic Sorresso
CF Senior Member
 
Dominic Sorresso's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Bartlett IL
Posts: 4,849
Thanked 59 Times in 49 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tooold2race View Post
Well here's another thought..... The new ME could be priced at the LOW end of the Corvette line.... say in the $60-70K range and thus eliminate the base, Z51 and Grand Sport. Then as the 'performance' versions are introduced, they would phase out the Z06 and ZR1!!!

That would allow for more aggressive exterior styling to follow in years 2 and so on.

Anybody feel that the Corvette line will become a full series (like Porsche and Ferrari) with everything including sedans and SUV's???

By the way, the most recent additions to the Ferrari line was the California back 10 years ago, priced at the bottom of their line, although they always seem to slipped in various 'special editions'.....
They make more money on Z06s and ZR1s. As a little factoid, recall that the FRC in the C5 was supposed to be a de-contented C5.
Dominic Sorresso is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 10:19 PM
  #11  
elegant
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
elegant's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,591
Thanked 1,191 Times in 588 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pkincy View Post
Normal car the first year and performance variants afterwards.
I totally agree with the quote above (as noted as in my OP), i.e., most of us believe that we will be getting a more powerful ZORA in year 2+. Yet...

This is the seventh year now of Lamborghini Aventador production, and the current S model (the fifth-introduced performance variant) produces more horsepower than did the original one; and, it additionally has improved other performance components than did its first year Aventador.

Yet, the S has the identical body panel width as the first year, non-S Aventador which had less power.

Whether the ME’s body panel width will become greater in year 2+, remains a valid question — for as the Aventador vs. Aventador S has shown, performance level vs body panel width can be mutually exclusive.

Last edited by elegant; 03-03-2018 at 10:31 PM.
elegant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 06:56 AM
  #12  
LIStingray
CF Senior Member
 
LIStingray's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Long Island New York
Posts: 1,889
Thanked 259 Times in 171 Posts
Default

What it really comes down to, is whether GM believes the ME from day one needs to out perform the C7 Z06 - if it does, and frankly I think it must, then the C7 formula of base car, then upping the HP and wide body a year later will need to change. I know the C6 ZR1 was a better performer than the C7 Z51, but that was a very expensive ($120k) C6. I don't think the ME will need to out perform the C7 ZR1, but assuming the ME comes with a price increase (which it will) if the ME equivalent of the current Z51 lags far behind the current Z06 for $5,000 less (Z51 w/ MSRC and M7 is only $14k less than a Z51) it will get more negative press than GM can afford.
The entry level ME needs to be a step up in performance from today's GS and Z06 right out of the box, with future upgrades in performance bringing it to levels unseen today.
LIStingray is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 08:47 AM
  #13  
fasttoys
CF Senior Member
 
fasttoys's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Posts: 825
Thanked 175 Times in 85 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by elegant View Post
I totally agree with the quote above (as noted as in my OP), i.e., most of us believe that we will be getting a more powerful ZORA in year 2+. Yet...

This is the seventh year now of Lamborghini Aventador production, and the current S model (the fifth-introduced performance variant) produces more horsepower than did the original one; and, it additionally has improved other performance components than did its first year Aventador.

Yet, the S has the identical body panel width as the first year, non-S Aventador which had less power.

Whether the ME’s body panel width will become greater in year 2+, remains a valid question — for as the Aventador vs. Aventador S has shown, performance level vs body panel width can be mutually exclusive.
I agree.

If you look at a GT3 Porsche verses a 911 S their are aerodynamics, suspension and motor diffences that are designed into the higher performance GT3. I expect the same for the faster performing ME. I will get the 1st gen ME, then if pricing makes sense get the next version. At some point these cars are getting so fast you can’t truly enjoy the extra performance unless your on a track or just because it’s the latest greatest.

Last edited by fasttoys; 03-04-2018 at 09:03 AM.
fasttoys is online now  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fasttoys For This Useful Post:
elegant (03-04-2018)
Old 03-04-2018, 10:59 AM
  #14  
Ted P
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Ted P's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: Streamwood Ill
Posts: 1,312
Thanked 78 Times in 52 Posts
Default

I doubt the base ME will outperform the c7z. base model will likely get 525 HP to keep the price reasonable with higher performance models to follow
Ted P is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 11:15 AM
  #15  
JockItch
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Sep 2004
Posts: 835
Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Ted P View Post
I doubt the base ME will outperform the c7z. base model will likely get 525 HP to keep the price reasonable with higher performance models to follow
I doubt it as well, at least in regards to HP and most performance numbers. However, I do think they should strive to make a car that is more balanced and enjoyable to drive from a performance perspective. That’s a goal I think they can easily attain with this new platform if done right.
JockItch is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 11:23 AM
  #16  
elegant
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
elegant's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2003
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,591
Thanked 1,191 Times in 588 Posts
Default

I too doubt that the entry ME will outperform the C7 Z06. That triumph will befall the later ZORA.

But the entry ME might have the same body panels as the ZORA — of course ZORA adding active aero and/or additional/larger aero components to achieve its higher performance levels.

Last edited by elegant; 03-04-2018 at 11:24 AM.
elegant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 12:29 PM
  #17  
copjsd
CF Senior Member
 
copjsd's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2013
Location: Lower Burrell PA
Posts: 231
Thanks: 0
Thanked 36 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Ted P View Post
I doubt the base ME will outperform the c7z. base model will likely get 525 HP to keep the price reasonable with higher performance models to follow
IMO, I believe "outperform" is a matter of definition. Out performing on a road course will probably be more attainable than outperforming on a drag-strip.
copjsd is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to copjsd For This Useful Post:
gthal (03-04-2018)
Old 03-04-2018, 12:49 PM
  #18  
Dominic Sorresso
CF Senior Member
 
Dominic Sorresso's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Bartlett IL
Posts: 4,849
Thanked 59 Times in 49 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by copjsd View Post
IMO, I believe "outperform" is a matter of definition. Out performing on a road course will probably be more attainable than outperforming on a drag-strip.
I would agree. Remember that the vehicle dynamics will be completely different due to the ME platform. Apparently, GM must believe that the ME platform provides a superior foundation to begin w. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the say Z51 version of the base ME comes close to an all out FE car. Ultimately it will more than surpass either FE Z cars. And could be less expensive to build given the inherent capabilities of the basic ME platform.

Last edited by Dominic Sorresso; 03-04-2018 at 12:50 PM.
Dominic Sorresso is offline  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dominic Sorresso For This Useful Post:
PurpleLion (03-04-2018)
Old 03-04-2018, 02:28 PM
  #19  
PurpleLion
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Dec 2017
Posts: 126
Thanked 51 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Also, keep in mind that one has to be careful if vehicle dynamics are one's ultimate goal. Specifically, you can not really trust GM given their past vehicle tuning choices.

For example, consider the chassis tuning for the Z07 option. Ostensibly, this is the option to choose if one desires the absolutely best handling Corvette. But, the Z07 front springs are significantly stiffer than both the Z07 rear springs and the regular front springs. The result? The Z07 suspension under-steers more than the suspension tuning that it replaces. One must be very careful when selecting options.
PurpleLion is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 03:37 PM
  #20  
Suns_PSD
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,123
Thanked 226 Times in 185 Posts
Default

There is something very Corvette ish about widebody options, that doesn't seem to mesh well with Mid engine designs. However considering the past success with wide body options, it's hard to imagine the GM would not want to continue with that very successful sales tactic.
Suns_PSD is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Wider-Bodied ME After Year 1?


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: