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Happen to have Super Car Build on with the R8 being covered. A slow production process that builds just 17 cars per day, an engine that at 936 lbs weighs close to twice the weight of the LT4 and its supercharger/intercooler. They are leaving a lot of room for competition to sweep them off their feet. As for Orange Peel the one car shown at the end of the line just finishing its quality checks has just as much as my 15 Z06.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 03-13-2018 at 09:47 PM.
Sold My 6 speed manual R8 to a surgeon in California and now waiting for my ME. First in line at my dealer. I am glad GM is moving to mid engine, I know some don’t like change I been waiting for years. My only complaint wish they could hurry this along. I do wish the ME was going to be a manual but I am good with dual clutch, if it’s programmed correctly. Like The new Ferrari Pista https://488pista.ferrari.com/en
I Heard the dual clutch is very fast and rough similar to the single clutch versions. When you shift in race mode it hits hard.
I think the comparison to the audi r10 is a good one. The c8 hopefully will be priced under that bogey, deliver similar quality (an Audi strong point, nice interior, tranny, engine, ect) and have better performance
a tt me dohc 5.5 v8 with 850 hp and weight around 3200 with a solid transmission at 120k will outperform the current 2019 ZR-1 which is already competative with most exotics in terms of "numbers"
With a clean sheet design, GM I believe will hit those quality and competition bogeys with a more cost effective alternative that can actually be fixed at the dealerhip without you fainting from the repair bill.
look at the service costs on most ME cars and you WILL see why people are afraid of them. If the corvette could "drop the rear cradle" with about 8 bolts so the engine could come down for service, with most repairs having enough room to be done from "up top" much of those ridiculous repair costs can hopefully be minimized.
reliability of the modern cars is better, but when I hear of the service intervals and costs on the ferrari and lambo guys I'm glad I drive a TT C5 and a LPE C4 ZR-1. I can afford them.
I think the comparison to the audi r10 is a good one. The c8 hopefully will be priced under that bogey, deliver similar quality (an Audi strong point, nice interior, tranny, engine, ect) and have better performance
a tt me dohc 5.5 v8 with 850 hp and weight around 3200 with a solid transmission at 120k will outperform the current 2019 ZR-1 which is already competative with most exotics in terms of "numbers"
With a clean sheet design, GM I believe will hit those quality and competition bogeys with a more cost effective alternative that can actually be fixed at the dealerhip without you fainting from the repair bill.
look at the service costs on most ME cars and you WILL see why people are afraid of them. If the corvette could "drop the rear cradle" with about 8 bolts so the engine could come down for service, with most repairs having enough room to be done from "up top" much of those ridiculous repair costs can hopefully be minimized.
reliability of the modern cars is better, but when I hear of the service intervals and costs on the ferrari and lambo guys I'm glad I drive a TT C5 and a LPE C4 ZR-1. I can afford them.
I agree but to play devils advocate there's precedence for affordable mid-engine sports cars with reasonable maintenance costs:
Porsche 914
Fiat X1/9
Lotus Europa
Toyota MR2
Acura NSX
Pontiac Fiero
Toyota MRS
Porsche Boxster/Cayman
Lotus Elise/Exige
Lotus Evora
Alfa Romeo 4C
Many of these vehicles are tracked regularly and many see above 150k miles of typical use without exuberant running costs. But they are doing so with modest powertrains. The base Corvette is already competing within price with several of these cars so I don't think there's much point in having the Zora in discussion here.
Maintenance is typically commiserate with the original MSRP of any vehicle sold. Lots of folks forget this in the second hand market where they can pick up a $50,000 Porsche Turbo that had a $150,000 price tag and except it to have the maintenance costs of a $50,000 Corvette. The challenge with any ME car is packaging and cooling - this is where I agree with your statement again; the supercar specials have this issue especially. Initial costs may be low but longer interval costs can rise significantly. Your Audi R8 with the included Audi care coverage was cheaper up to 40k miles than the same year Toyota Camry in scheduled maintenance, after that it's a hard inversion.
If we dismiss lots of marketing BS and brand loyalism there tends to be a relationship between quality and price, too. I would love for Chevrolet to knock the Zora out the park and continue with their successful formula with 70% the quality, 120% the performance at 60% the price.
But it's a significant benchmark and cars have kept up with the average income (skewed by the 1%). I'm amazed at how expensive most cars are. Then looking at sports cars and the numbers they produce - yowza.
Acura NSX - $157k
911 Turbo S - $162k
Audi R8 - $166k
Aston Martin Vantage - $189k
McLaren 570S - $191k
Lamborghini Huracan - $203k
Ferrari 488 - $256k
And of course the existing Z06 at $80k and the ZR1 at $120k
The question is going to be of the benchmark. There's no way the Zora pits against the 4C or Cayman since the standard Corvette is doing that. Ther Z06 is pitted gainst the track-day specials; 911GT3, Mustang 350R, GT4, AMG GT-R.
Hell even the in-house ZL1 1LE carries a base price of $71,295.
The stickler is going to be the Ford GT. In my mind, a hot variant of the Zora has got to be in the same discussion as the $450k GT. A hot-hot Zora TTV8 could come in at $250k with standard LT at $120k [that's the same spread between a C7 and a ZR1] with enough cushion to the track day special Z06 and ZL1. The maintenance would be equivalent to a the slew of new $120k sports cars with maybe a little premium on top - figure around $2,500 annually outside warranty and less than a typical Porsche/Jaguar dealership rate for early schedule maintenance items.
Alfa is rumored to update the 4C soon, possibly with the Ferrari derived V6TT used in the Giulia. That with the new Porsche 718 GT4 which still uses the flat-6 and the forthcoming Audi R8 V6TT would be a solid mid-engine competing group to an LT Zora with fair cross-shopping pricing. I expect that range of cars to carry MSRP between $110-140k.
What I really hope Chevy does is incorporate a performance hybrid system. I think there's a lot of success in the mid-engine V8 hybrid formula for a performance car. I'm looking at the Porsche 918 as a template. I would happily trade my 911 in and place an order for a Jetstream Blue hybrid Zora packing 500 shrieking mini-explosions behind my head with 150+ electrons powering the front wheels, batteries in the floor board lowering the CG and a trick power handling system that makes me a lot faster than I think I am. Route it through a 9 gear paddle spanking tranny so my wife can scare the crap out of me after I've had a few drinks. All puns intended.
The NSX gets close to this but I don't fit in one and it sounds like ***. The BMW i8 doubles down on the ***-sound and misses any meaningful performance punch.
Another question; now that the Viper is a Dodo will Dodge come back sooner with an SRT Tomahawk should the Zora find big success?
I agree but to play devils advocate there's precedence for affordable mid-engine sports cars with reasonable maintenance costs:
Porsche 914
Fiat X1/9
Lotus Europa
Toyota MR2
Acura NSX
Pontiac Fiero
Toyota MRS
Porsche Boxster/Cayman
Lotus Elise/Exige
Lotus Evora
Alfa Romeo 4C
Many of these vehicles are tracked regularly and many see above 150k miles of typical use without exuberant running costs. But they are doing so with modest powertrains. The base Corvette is already competing within price with several of these cars so I don't think there's much point in having the Zora in discussion here.
Maintenance is typically commiserate with the original MSRP of any vehicle sold. Lots of folks forget this in the second hand market where they can pick up a $50,000 Porsche Turbo that had a $150,000 price tag and except it to have the maintenance costs of a $50,000 Corvette. The challenge with any ME car is packaging and cooling - this is where I agree with your statement again; the supercar specials have this issue especially. Initial costs may be low but longer interval costs can rise significantly. Your Audi R8 with the included Audi care coverage was cheaper up to 40k miles than the same year Toyota Camry in scheduled maintenance, after that it's a hard inversion.
If we dismiss lots of marketing BS and brand loyalism there tends to be a relationship between quality and price, too. I would love for Chevrolet to knock the Zora out the park and continue with their successful formula with 70% the quality, 120% the performance at 60% the price.
But it's a significant benchmark and cars have kept up with the average income (skewed by the 1%). I'm amazed at how expensive most cars are. Then looking at sports cars and the numbers they produce - yowza.
Acura NSX - $157k
911 Turbo S - $162k
Audi R8 - $166k
Aston Martin Vantage - $189k
McLaren 570S - $191k
Lamborghini Huracan - $203k
Ferrari 488 - $256k
And of course the existing Z06 at $80k and the ZR1 at $120k
The question is going to be of the benchmark. There's no way the Zora pits against the 4C or Cayman since the standard Corvette is doing that. Ther Z06 is pitted gainst the track-day specials; 911GT3, Mustang 350R, GT4, AMG GT-R.
Hell even the in-house ZL1 1LE carries a base price of $71,295.
The stickler is going to be the Ford GT. In my mind, a hot variant of the Zora has got to be in the same discussion as the $450k GT. A hot-hot Zora TTV8 could come in at $250k with standard LT at $120k [that's the same spread between a C7 and a ZR1] with enough cushion to the track day special Z06 and ZL1. The maintenance would be equivalent to a the slew of new $120k sports cars with maybe a little premium on top - figure around $2,500 annually outside warranty and less than a typical Porsche/Jaguar dealership rate for early schedule maintenance items.
Alfa is rumored to update the 4C soon, possibly with the Ferrari derived V6TT used in the Giulia. That with the new Porsche 718 GT4 which still uses the flat-6 and the forthcoming Audi R8 V6TT would be a solid mid-engine competing group to an LT Zora with fair cross-shopping pricing. I expect that range of cars to carry MSRP between $110-140k.
What I really hope Chevy does is incorporate a performance hybrid system. I think there's a lot of success in the mid-engine V8 hybrid formula for a performance car. I'm looking at the Porsche 918 as a template. I would happily trade my 911 in and place an order for a Jetstream Blue hybrid Zora packing 500 shrieking mini-explosions behind my head with 150+ electrons powering the front wheels, batteries in the floor board lowering the CG and a trick power handling system that makes me a lot faster than I think I am. Route it through a 9 gear paddle spanking tranny so my wife can scare the crap out of me after I've had a few drinks. All puns intended.
The NSX gets close to this but I don't fit in one and it sounds like ***. The BMW i8 doubles down on the ***-sound and misses any meaningful performance punch.
Another question; now that the Viper is a Dodo will Dodge come back sooner with an SRT Tomahawk should the Zora find big success?
Very nice post. I enjoyed reading it. IIt will be a miracle for the ME vette to come in below a $grand.
There is a rumored Toyota FT1 coming. It seems it will be on a BMW st 6 turbo platform. There goes the good reputation of Toyota if true.
03-13-2018, 09:42 PM
