sunsalem

Have a rough St. Patrick's Day?

JerriVette

No actually not.. I had a good time ...

Ronstar

What’s everybody see here?

NoOne

awd.

elegant

Having read posts by two members and also seeing the prediction in the Markit Engine Forecast that the 2020 ME will come in an OHC V8, and two TT, DOHC versions, I am thinking “not so fast.”

Reason: As we have agreed, cooling an ME is even harder than a FE. And GM has its work cut out for its to develop a ME itself, with all of it already known changes. Know to consider that they would working on three different power plants with their small staff.

Personally, I highly doubt it. Maybe two power plants over the first two years, but just do not think adding in a third makes “work load” sense.”

LT1 Z51

Based on GM's frame rail design, and the height of GM blocks, they don't fit. Try swapping a DOHC GM V6 into a Corvette. OR measure the hood to block height differences in a Camaro between a V8 and a V6. Or compare a C5 or C6 to an XLR in terms of hood height. That car had a Northstar DOHC V8. It is a fact that to get the Northstar into the XLR even with the raised hood involved reducing its output due to the supercharger pulley having to change to fit. Also remember that was all before European pedestrian standards (which the new ZR1 does not meet). The regular Stingray however does meet those standards (albeit barely).

Mercedes uses a different architecture, it's not even a valid comparison and superfluous information to the discussion. You know this. Stop trying to start an argument which you refuse to bring data to. I've given you my data above, if you choose to not accept it, that's your problem not mine. Could GM redesign the frame rails, sure, will they, they haven't since the C5, so my bet there would be not going to happen.

I mean, c'mon man really, give it a rest.

LT1 Z51

Maybe not at the suppliers, but at some point people at GM were talking two cars internally. I don't think that's been the case since this program got green lighted almost 5 years ago. Business case wise I think they decided it was better to just do one car.

I thought De Nysschen would remake the discussion when he arrived. It appears so far he has not. I'm actually surprised he hasn't been able to.

RedLS6

According to ZERV it's a Tremec DCT -

The back of the transmission is different in this latest ZERV pic posted today, and pasted below...... the rearward ribbed case and dual chassis mounts on the tranny in the new pic weren't shown in the previous engine/chassis pic.

Same tranny with more of the rearward case shown, versus the previous pics? Or different tranny from the previous pics?

NoOne

I was going with the Caddy part because all of the talk of it here and assuming it has some validity.

With the spec's you posted and price if there were two cars my guess would be the Caddy is first for all the reasons I mentioned.

If there is only one car then it'll be interesting to see how the dealers shake out.

I haven't really asked around either. I have quite a few suppliers as customers including 2 Tier 1's but in the end the car will be what the car will be.

If its 100K with 600hp and RWD I'd have to see how it optioned out. If its 100K with 600hp and AWD I'd be in line as soon as I could be.

I just cannot see them going after the customer they are going after with their dealerships. Big part of the reason why Cadillac made sense.

LT1 Z51

I tend to agree.

Here in the CAD with the LT1 you might be looking at a "package protect" study.

This is done in development all the time. The ATS-V CAD started with an LT1 in it, and in fact remains package protected for it. It was at one point the original engine before they went to the V6 TT.

My guess, the ME was developed with the idea that "worst case" the LT1, LT4, and LT5 had to package into the vehicle. Since height isn't an issue (due to the natural design of an ME) they probably used the LT1 CAD to represent all those engines.

The only reason to ever put an LT in the ME would be to replace the base C8 car. This would mean financially it makes more sense to not refresh the C7 into an FE C8 and instead jump to the ME platform. With the C7 not ending until 2021, the decision to make a C8 doesn't need to be made until this year, as you need about 36 months to run a program (and the C8 wouldn't need to launch until July 2021 which is 39 months away).

There is officially a Y2XX FE program out there, but like the C7 (which was a 2012 until the financial melt down in 2008/9) things can always change. So if we don't see supplier sourcing in the next 3-6 months you have the answer.

Also to ZERV's comment, if the FE Corvette is eliminated there is no reason to keep any V8 OHV all the other cars and trucks can package protect a DOHC. The Corvette FE platform currently as designed is the only one which cannot.

The only problem is a 6.2L DOHC NA engine makes about as much power as a 4.4L TT engine, or somewhere in the 600 HP range. It doesn't make sense to do both. Personally I'd rather see a base HA engine making 600 HP instead of a TT. I'm a NA fan.

Race engines also don't make sense, as 5.5L is the NA limit while 4.0L is the TT or Supercharged limit. This is why the C7.R has a 5.5L V8.

LT1 Z51

I think there is a hybrid, if anything, the transmission is clearly pointed to the rear of the car, the only thing you'd add on to the back of a car would be an electric motor.

ZERVs comment on the 10 Speed is also interesting, I'd bet that was the high torque transmission, and the DCT is the "manual replacement" since it only has 7 gears.

I wonder if the 5.5L V8 has too much torque for the DCT. There is a reason the Dodge Demon doesn't have a manual, it's the over 800 ft-lbs of torque.

Kappa

Doubt it. Even if it did, the Corvette team would limit torque through the lower gears just like Ferrari and McLaren. The 720S puts out damn near 800hp/650tq from the factory with a DCT.

The Demon doesn't have a manual because it doesn't make sense for a drag car. If the TR-6060 can handle the LT5, it can handle the Demon motor.

JerriVette

Will Cadillac ever get a derivative of the rear mid engine corvette?

Never say never

Lack of Supplier whispering and gossip within earshot of corvette forum members notwithstanding of course

LT1 Z51

Actually your statement about the LT5 is false, the LT5 has less torque than the Demon, so it has no bearing in the discussion.

LT1 Z51

I think you underestimate the knowledge that many people here have.

Kappa

A difference of 2lb-ft on regular 93(55lb-ft on 100 octane) is insignificant. So yes, I feel it does have bearing.

Again, the TR6060 would no problem handling either engine.

LT1 Z51

Considering the Demon was designed to have that 100 octane performance, as an Engineer that isn't insignificant.

The car has 770 lb-ft of torque as designed.

Shaka

What's 'package protect'? A OHV N/A engine is much cheaper to produce which is perfect for the entry level ME Vette. The C7R has the same engine as the GT1 C5R. FIA forced this 5,5 l formula. To this day it still has FIA forced handicaps.

JerriVette

I've been a member since the forum began in 1999...

Believe me I m not underestimating anyone.

Never say never although I agree a Cadillac rear mid engine is a waste of resources

ltomn

4.4 TT, not 4.6TT? 5.5 TT, not 5.4 TT?