Details on likely C8 engine
#21
Safety Car
Thanks Jag. Good point. So if it were not called a Corvette, could be called a ZORA, i.e., after all, Zora Arkus Duntov’s first mid engine was the Chevrolet Engineering Research Vehicle in 1959.
Last edited by elegant; 03-29-2018 at 01:20 AM.
#22
Race Director
I find it hard to believe 3000 built TT Dohc engines built in bowling green are going to be split between the various cadillacs and also the c8 corvette...
There isn't enough annual volume of the TT Dohc 4.2 engines...
Can't go into the corvette..
1500 units for Cadillac sedans and a thousand for cuv s while the rest used for the derivative of the mid engine corvette along with its traditional 10 speed torque converter automatic..
Just a guess on my part....
Probably some supplier sending over a short annual run of the 3000 blocks to give Cadillac an AMG like product...
Hop fully corvette doesn't get this nonsensical engine.
There isn't enough annual volume of the TT Dohc 4.2 engines...
Can't go into the corvette..
1500 units for Cadillac sedans and a thousand for cuv s while the rest used for the derivative of the mid engine corvette along with its traditional 10 speed torque converter automatic..
Just a guess on my part....
Probably some supplier sending over a short annual run of the 3000 blocks to give Cadillac an AMG like product...
Hop fully corvette doesn't get this nonsensical engine.
Last edited by JerriVette; 03-29-2018 at 08:05 AM.
#23
Team Owner
I think the argument is about the 4.2L Caddy engine going into the Corvette, which the boss of Caddy clearly said it is not.
Last edited by JoesC5; 03-29-2018 at 08:11 AM.
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jagamajajaran (03-29-2018)
#24
Team Owner
If you have ever driven a 911 type Porsche, then u understand how the steeply slopping hood(frunk)gives u a visual connection with the road u simply do not get w the Vette. The ME will bring that to the Corvette world. Coupled w the lower CG of the ME platform and overall more neutral balance, the ME Corvette will make the FE look like an anachronistic memory in the evolution of this American icon. It will make obvious how we have all been muscling that front end around all these years.
#26
You have to remember things like the LSA vs LS9. It doesnt take much to get a different designation between engines, example LS1 vs LS6 ... It doesn't carry much weight to say it's not going into the corvette when all they have to do is change a camshaft profile, manifold, or turbocharger size to give it a different designation.
#27
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You're not the only one. Go back over my posts the last year and a half or so and you'll see me say the same thing repeatedly. What I'm convinced of is that the 2020 ME is not the 8th Gen Corvette. That said, I'm not convinced as to which name the ME will wear... Cadillac, Chevrolet, Corvette, Zora, or something else.
#28
Safety Car
Cadillac’s all electric mid engine sports car might be coming, but not for two to three more years, as they are now aggressively shoring up major product holes in their current portfolio. The 2020 ME Corvette will be out at least one, probably two years earlier than the Cadillac’s — that is if the Cadillac’s comes out at all.
Cadillac is now filling out its CUV line, then has other holes to fill, and has announced 21 new products in the next three years, including its halo Escala in 2021 — which could even have a 5.5L up-sizing of the 4.2L announced two days ago.
Cadillac is now filling out its CUV line, then has other holes to fill, and has announced 21 new products in the next three years, including its halo Escala in 2021 — which could even have a 5.5L up-sizing of the 4.2L announced two days ago.
#29
Race Director
Cadillac needs to get their investment in bowling green back...
Cadillacs budget to become more successful makes what GM invests in corvettes look like chump change...
Remember a good portion of the c8 and even the hot v TT v8 from Cadillac were designed prior to the GM bankruptcy and the costs for research and design were cast aside...with the bankruptcy...
Cadillacs budget to become more successful makes what GM invests in corvettes look like chump change...
Remember a good portion of the c8 and even the hot v TT v8 from Cadillac were designed prior to the GM bankruptcy and the costs for research and design were cast aside...with the bankruptcy...
#30
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Not only would putting the ME in Cadillac be a mistake for the ME, but it would hurt Corvette. IMHO, if they do this, Mary Barra needs to dust off her resume.
Last edited by roadbike56; 03-29-2018 at 02:17 PM.
#31
Team Owner
Cadillac’s all electric mid engine sports car might be coming, but not for two to three more years, as they are now aggressively shoring up major product holes in their current portfolio. The 2020 ME Corvette will be out at least one, probably two years earlier than the Cadillac’s — that is if the Cadillac’s comes out at all.
Cadillac is now filling out its CUV line, then has other holes to fill, and has announced 21 new products in the next three years, including its halo Escala in 2021 — which could even have a 5.5L up-sizing of the 4.2L announced two days ago.
Cadillac is now filling out its CUV line, then has other holes to fill, and has announced 21 new products in the next three years, including its halo Escala in 2021 — which could even have a 5.5L up-sizing of the 4.2L announced two days ago.
#32
Race Director
I prefer the ease of getting parts that are shared with the rest of the Chevy lineup..
Low number production of 3000 units as stated for the 4.2 TT v8 are better left to the Germans...
Over the lifetime of the vehicle where parts become scarce is a royal pain in the butt...
That's why I'm not a fan of exotics...who needs that nonsense.
I'm sure there will be offshoots that land in GM s trucks and that would make for a nice high output motor for corvettes if need be..
I'll still take the 6.2 ohv engine but I'm sure some variants of the hot v Cadillac will appear over time
All depends what happens to GMs pickup truck powerplants..
Ford went to TT v6 s for its pickup lineup so a v8 might not be needed...
Relegating the ttv8 to low volume high cost status for Cadillac escalas and maybe a torque converter A10 TT hot v v8 for its variant of the rear mid engine platform built in bowling green..
Nice ways to differiate the brands on a single platform.
We might even see aluminum sheet metal for the Cadillac..
The xlr and xlr v were chastised for their panel gaps because of the composite body panels need for expansion etc.
These are qualities corvette owners don't really care about...so it might be a way again to create two distinct vehicles off one platform.
Low number production of 3000 units as stated for the 4.2 TT v8 are better left to the Germans...
Over the lifetime of the vehicle where parts become scarce is a royal pain in the butt...
That's why I'm not a fan of exotics...who needs that nonsense.
I'm sure there will be offshoots that land in GM s trucks and that would make for a nice high output motor for corvettes if need be..
I'll still take the 6.2 ohv engine but I'm sure some variants of the hot v Cadillac will appear over time
All depends what happens to GMs pickup truck powerplants..
Ford went to TT v6 s for its pickup lineup so a v8 might not be needed...
Relegating the ttv8 to low volume high cost status for Cadillac escalas and maybe a torque converter A10 TT hot v v8 for its variant of the rear mid engine platform built in bowling green..
Nice ways to differiate the brands on a single platform.
We might even see aluminum sheet metal for the Cadillac..
The xlr and xlr v were chastised for their panel gaps because of the composite body panels need for expansion etc.
These are qualities corvette owners don't really care about...so it might be a way again to create two distinct vehicles off one platform.
Last edited by JerriVette; 03-29-2018 at 02:55 PM.
#33
Race Director
You're not the only one. Go back over my posts the last year and a half or so and you'll see me say the same thing repeatedly. What I'm convinced of is that the 2020 ME is not the 8th Gen Corvette. That said, I'm not convinced as to which name the ME will wear... Cadillac, Chevrolet, Corvette, Zora, or something else.
#34
Team Owner
I prefer the ease of getting parts that are shared with the rest of the Chevy lineup..
Low number production of 3000 units as stated for the 4.2 TT v8 are better left to the Germans...
Over the lifetime of the vehicle where parts become scarce is a royal pain in the butt...
That's why I'm not a fan of exotics...who needs that nonsense.
I'm sure there will be offshoots that land in GM s trucks and that would make for a nice high output motor for corvettes if need be..
I'll still take the 6.2 ohv engine but I'm sure some variants of the hot v Cadillac will appear over time
All depends what happens to GMs pickup truck powerplants..
Ford went to TT v6 s for its pickup lineup so a v8 might not be needed...
Relegating the ttv8 to low volume high cost status for Cadillac escalas and maybe a torque converter A10 TT hot v v8 for its variant of the rear mid engine platform built in bowling green..
Nice ways to differiate the brands on a single platform.
We might even see aluminum sheet metal for the Cadillac..
The xlr and xlr v were chastised for their panel gaps because of the composite body panels need for expansion etc.
These are qualities corvette owners don't really care about...so it might be a way again to create two distinct vehicles off one platform.
Low number production of 3000 units as stated for the 4.2 TT v8 are better left to the Germans...
Over the lifetime of the vehicle where parts become scarce is a royal pain in the butt...
That's why I'm not a fan of exotics...who needs that nonsense.
I'm sure there will be offshoots that land in GM s trucks and that would make for a nice high output motor for corvettes if need be..
I'll still take the 6.2 ohv engine but I'm sure some variants of the hot v Cadillac will appear over time
All depends what happens to GMs pickup truck powerplants..
Ford went to TT v6 s for its pickup lineup so a v8 might not be needed...
Relegating the ttv8 to low volume high cost status for Cadillac escalas and maybe a torque converter A10 TT hot v v8 for its variant of the rear mid engine platform built in bowling green..
Nice ways to differiate the brands on a single platform.
We might even see aluminum sheet metal for the Cadillac..
The xlr and xlr v were chastised for their panel gaps because of the composite body panels need for expansion etc.
These are qualities corvette owners don't really care about...so it might be a way again to create two distinct vehicles off one platform.
We have no idea what the demand will be for the 4.2L engine if it does happen to show up in a half dozen new products that could just have a lot higher production volume than the CT6.
Maybe, just maybe, Cadillac is trying to wean itself off Chevrolet sourced engines to better position themselves to compete with the Germans.
Last edited by JoesC5; 03-29-2018 at 06:55 PM.
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Shaka (03-29-2018)
#35
Race Director
Supposedly Cadillac has a new product for release every six months for quite a long time..
I'm sure your right Joe...the separate engine has been requested by JDN to differiate these vehicles from other GM brands.
I'm sure your right Joe...the separate engine has been requested by JDN to differiate these vehicles from other GM brands.
#36
A few things we want to remember.
*The 4.2L is the smaller sibling to the 5.5L — which is also a 32V, DOHC, TT, V8 and the latter which could develop up to “an estimated 850 HP” (source: Markit Engine Forecast);
* ZORA is not coming until 2021 or 2022 — at which time a comparison of ZORA and the ZR1 would be warranted — though for the reasons below, it might not take until ZORA arrives for this to be a great competition;
* The engine in a ME is roughly 2” closer to the pavement, e.g, a much lower center of gravity than a FE with consequent better handling;
* The engine in a ME is roughly located right over the rear wheels, i.e., giving much greater traction coming out of a corner than a front engine/rear wheel drive;
* As noted in today CT6 press release, the 4.2L weighs less than the 6.2L. Couple this with probable other weight reductions in the ME, we could get 4.2 L, 2020 ME Corvette weighing perhaps 100-150 pounds less than a FE C7.
Put all five factors together, and sorry all FE lovers (and I am one), the ME will be, by time ZORA arrives, be more competitive in the world of performance sports cars.
*The 4.2L is the smaller sibling to the 5.5L — which is also a 32V, DOHC, TT, V8 and the latter which could develop up to “an estimated 850 HP” (source: Markit Engine Forecast);
* ZORA is not coming until 2021 or 2022 — at which time a comparison of ZORA and the ZR1 would be warranted — though for the reasons below, it might not take until ZORA arrives for this to be a great competition;
* The engine in a ME is roughly 2” closer to the pavement, e.g, a much lower center of gravity than a FE with consequent better handling;
* The engine in a ME is roughly located right over the rear wheels, i.e., giving much greater traction coming out of a corner than a front engine/rear wheel drive;
* As noted in today CT6 press release, the 4.2L weighs less than the 6.2L. Couple this with probable other weight reductions in the ME, we could get 4.2 L, 2020 ME Corvette weighing perhaps 100-150 pounds less than a FE C7.
Put all five factors together, and sorry all FE lovers (and I am one), the ME will be, by time ZORA arrives, be more competitive in the world of performance sports cars.
#37
Le Mans Master
1-Year! ;)
C8 OHV Z51(comparison #s), and C8.R OHV, minimum; Electric cars have me a minimalist on motors. Autonomousness and the 720s's aero/ venting has me backing off, period. All bets are off!
#38
Burning Brakes
C8 ME Mfg where?
I have been told by a reliable source from the Tonawanda Engine Plant.... that the power plant is currently being assembled there. Seems to be slowly leaking out as the excitement grows ...and curiosity continues...
source has always been reliable in past with different projects that have sourced at this location.
source has always been reliable in past with different projects that have sourced at this location.
Last edited by trumanjd1; 03-31-2018 at 07:08 PM.
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JerriVette (03-31-2018)
#39
Cadillac needs to get their investment in bowling green back...
Cadillacs budget to become more successful makes what GM invests in corvettes look like chump change...
Remember a good portion of the c8 and even the hot v TT v8 from Cadillac were designed prior to the GM bankruptcy and the costs for research and design were cast aside...with the bankruptcy...
Cadillacs budget to become more successful makes what GM invests in corvettes look like chump change...
Remember a good portion of the c8 and even the hot v TT v8 from Cadillac were designed prior to the GM bankruptcy and the costs for research and design were cast aside...with the bankruptcy...
If you go back to some of Ed Welburns' interviews, from when he retired almost two years ago, he seemed to already know and be excited for the C8 over his own baby.
Last edited by jma242; 03-31-2018 at 11:03 PM.
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JerriVette (04-01-2018)
#40
Burning Brakes
GM DOHC V-8/10 Engine Plan
Built in bowling green KY at the corvette plant.
Hand assembled 3000 units
http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...autonews-daily
Hand assembled 3000 units
http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...autonews-daily
2020 is another year.....and production of GM DOHC 4.2L TT's may be more like 17,000-20,000, depending on what platforms this engine finds its way into. It could also be built in Tonawanda, once the automated processing is worked out.
Has anyone besides me figured out that a V-10 version of this engine would displace about 5.5L ????
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JerriVette (04-01-2018)