View Poll Results: Which C8 ME model would you buy?
LT1 Engine - 500 HP model
66
28.33%
5.5L V8 600HP+/- model
74
31.76%
Twin Turbo 5.5 V8 800HP+/- model
56
24.03%
Hybrid (Twin Turbo 5.5 V8 + electric motor 1000HP+/-) model
23
9.87%
I won't but the C8 ME
14
6.01%
Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll
Which C8 ME Model/Engine would you buy? Poll
04-20-2018, 02:02 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I'm with Jerri on this one. I like the LT1...at the right price. The beauty of the LT1 is if, down the road, you want more power, there are a lot of aftermarket options, (e.g superchargers, cams, etc.) I doubt it will be very easy to upgrade a high tech DOHC twin turbo 4.2L or 5.5L V8.
I'd go with the 2LT interior and the Z51 package (if there is such a thing...)
I'd go with the 2LT interior and the Z51 package (if there is such a thing...)
The LT1 is a great engine, but my only concern is that the car would be too similar to my C7 in some ways if I go with the LT1.
04-20-2018, 02:07 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Actually de Nyschen did not say the 4.2L was a Cadillac exclusive. He did however say this 4.2L going into his Cadillac (which GM calls a LTA) is a Cadillac exclusive. I agree on that, that no LTA will find its way into any Corvette.
However that does not preclude a 4.2L, also a 32 V, DOHC V8, however with with some parts differences (most exterior to the engine), which GM calls a “LTB” (or “LT11” or whatever) , from going into the 2020 ME Corvette.
However that does not preclude a 4.2L, also a 32 V, DOHC V8, however with with some parts differences (most exterior to the engine), which GM calls a “LTB” (or “LT11” or whatever) , from going into the 2020 ME Corvette.
Imagine for a sec, GM using the 4.2L engine as the base engine for the next gen FRONT engine Corvette.
That way they can put some distance between the higher priced 5.5L engines. If the C&D article is correct, the LT1 in the ME will only be for the beginning so the 5.5L will eventually become the base for the ME.
I'm always in for more choices for the consumers.
05-02-2018, 01:58 PM
#43
Safety Car
I. Using boost in the C7 Z06 was Tadge's idea to cut costs by eliminating one model and people hate it
It must be really painful for GM to see this poll, if any from GM are looking. Tadge's strategy to effectively kill the Z06 variant in the C7 and have a boosted Z06 is the exact opposite of what people wanted. At the track it's equally painful to watch, C6s still outnumber the C7s for a good reason. Light and naturally aspirated is the way to go.
II. Boost has failed us recently
I see folks saying boost is the future. Remember Europe has been boosted and saying this since the 90s but what it got us was unrealistic fuel economy ratings that don't work in the real world and the emissions scandal. So if you want to save gas only on paper and cheat then sure, boost is the way.
III. The future of ICE is right sized atmospheric with boost used for something else
Mazda's new ICE is the future. That is the reason Toyota decided to join forces and the reason why Mazda has no in house hybrid development. The way they have re-thought ICE is the pinnacle. Mazda gets the benefit of sparkless combustion and has for a long time used the right sized no-boost engine approach. There is a supercharger in the equation for the new Skyactiv but it's not a standard setup by any means.
IV. The high output naturally aspirated version of an engine is always going to have the highest potential
Start with a screamer 5.5L DOHC if you want to add power. What happens when you want to get the most power? You boost it, but now you also have a high flowing head. Which is Honda's most powerful engine to date on stock internals? The high revving naturally aspirated S2000 engine. It has more potential for high power than the new Type R turbo they created. Simply, the head flows better. You can say the same about AMG too. What would happen if you started with the 6.2L high revving SLS engine and added boost? You would destroy the new 4.0L that comes boosted stock but it's not meant to rev.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 05-02-2018 at 01:59 PM.
05-02-2018, 02:34 PM
#44
Race Director
I prefer a near 500 hp derivative of the LT1 as that's what I deem appropriate for a rear mid engine sports car and I'd like to enduldge in a dct transmission with a z51 like heavy duty suspension package.
I will say I am also considering a final year c7 z06 manual as I personally would get a kick out of a 650 hp supercharged beast as its quite impressive and final year always has attractive incentives...but I'll probably go for the rear mid engine c8...
It's been promised for decades how could I not want one of those...
Torch red and black interior...
I will say I am also considering a final year c7 z06 manual as I personally would get a kick out of a 650 hp supercharged beast as its quite impressive and final year always has attractive incentives...but I'll probably go for the rear mid engine c8...
It's been promised for decades how could I not want one of those...
Torch red and black interior...
05-02-2018, 11:00 PM
#45
For discussion sake, let's assume that the recent rumors are correct and the ME price increase will be roughly $10K +/- and the basic engine specs from C&D are all accurate.
1.) Now, let's say the base ME starts at $68,500 in the 1st model year and then creeps up... would you buy it? Keep in mind this will have the same LT1 motor tuned to 500HP.
2.) Or would you wait for the 5.5L V8 DOHC producing in the 600HP range version which will likely start at $78,000ish (based on base model’s price), before options.
3.) Or… would you wait for the turbo 5.5 liter V8 is supposed to make 800HP range, which I would assume starts at around $90k.
4.) Or would you go all in, and wait for the hybrid (5.5 V8 turbo + electric motor 1000HP +/-) which will clearly be the world beater version and if they include world class things like active aero you see in the Huracan Performante, I won't be surprised if it starts between $160K to $200k.
So would you buy one or not and if so, which one an why?
1.) Now, let's say the base ME starts at $68,500 in the 1st model year and then creeps up... would you buy it? Keep in mind this will have the same LT1 motor tuned to 500HP.
2.) Or would you wait for the 5.5L V8 DOHC producing in the 600HP range version which will likely start at $78,000ish (based on base model’s price), before options.
3.) Or… would you wait for the turbo 5.5 liter V8 is supposed to make 800HP range, which I would assume starts at around $90k.
4.) Or would you go all in, and wait for the hybrid (5.5 V8 turbo + electric motor 1000HP +/-) which will clearly be the world beater version and if they include world class things like active aero you see in the Huracan Performante, I won't be surprised if it starts between $160K to $200k.
So would you buy one or not and if so, which one an why?
Second: No M7, why buy?
Third: No removable top, why buy?
Fourth: Adding all 1, 2, and 3 is reason why I bought a 2019 C7 SO 2Lt M7
05-03-2018, 01:32 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
I would love the all motor DOHC, I'm strictly against boost and here is why.
I. Using boost in the C7 Z06 was Tadge's idea to cut costs by eliminating one model and people hate it
It must be really painful for GM to see this poll, if any from GM are looking. Tadge's strategy to effectively kill the Z06 variant in the C7 and have a boosted Z06 is the exact opposite of what people wanted. At the track it's equally painful to watch, C6s still outnumber the C7s for a good reason. Light and naturally aspirated is the way to go.
II. Boost has failed us recently
I see folks saying boost is the future. Remember Europe has been boosted and saying this since the 90s but what it got us was unrealistic fuel economy ratings that don't work in the real world and the emissions scandal. So if you want to save gas only on paper and cheat then sure, boost is the way.
III. The future of ICE is right sized atmospheric with boost used for something else
Mazda's new ICE is the future. That is the reason Toyota decided to join forces and the reason why Mazda has no in house hybrid development. The way they have re-thought ICE is the pinnacle. Mazda gets the benefit of sparkless combustion and has for a long time used the right sized no-boost engine approach. There is a supercharger in the equation for the new Skyactiv but it's not a standard setup by any means.
IV. The high output naturally aspirated version of an engine is always going to have the highest potential
Start with a screamer 5.5L DOHC if you want to add power. What happens when you want to get the most power? You boost it, but now you also have a high flowing head. Which is Honda's most powerful engine to date on stock internals? The high revving naturally aspirated S2000 engine. It has more potential for high power than the new Type R turbo they created. Simply, the head flows better. You can say the same about AMG too. What would happen if you started with the 6.2L high revving SLS engine and added boost? You would destroy the new 4.0L that comes boosted stock but it's not meant to rev.
I. Using boost in the C7 Z06 was Tadge's idea to cut costs by eliminating one model and people hate it
It must be really painful for GM to see this poll, if any from GM are looking. Tadge's strategy to effectively kill the Z06 variant in the C7 and have a boosted Z06 is the exact opposite of what people wanted. At the track it's equally painful to watch, C6s still outnumber the C7s for a good reason. Light and naturally aspirated is the way to go.
II. Boost has failed us recently
I see folks saying boost is the future. Remember Europe has been boosted and saying this since the 90s but what it got us was unrealistic fuel economy ratings that don't work in the real world and the emissions scandal. So if you want to save gas only on paper and cheat then sure, boost is the way.
III. The future of ICE is right sized atmospheric with boost used for something else
Mazda's new ICE is the future. That is the reason Toyota decided to join forces and the reason why Mazda has no in house hybrid development. The way they have re-thought ICE is the pinnacle. Mazda gets the benefit of sparkless combustion and has for a long time used the right sized no-boost engine approach. There is a supercharger in the equation for the new Skyactiv but it's not a standard setup by any means.
IV. The high output naturally aspirated version of an engine is always going to have the highest potential
Start with a screamer 5.5L DOHC if you want to add power. What happens when you want to get the most power? You boost it, but now you also have a high flowing head. Which is Honda's most powerful engine to date on stock internals? The high revving naturally aspirated S2000 engine. It has more potential for high power than the new Type R turbo they created. Simply, the head flows better. You can say the same about AMG too. What would happen if you started with the 6.2L high revving SLS engine and added boost? You would destroy the new 4.0L that comes boosted stock but it's not meant to rev.
Mercedes-Benz is leading on this issue and their 2020 product plan is a 3.0L turbo I-6 with a 48V ISG and a battery for almost every car in their line-up. Porsche is not far behind, and every Porsche sold today is boosted with the lone exception on the GT3. Eventually the same will be true for GM and Corvette.
From a drivability standpoint, the big issue with turbos is lag, however two approaches mitigate this - close coupling of the turbos to the exhaust manifold via the "Hot Vee" setup, and the use of an ISG, to provide the initial torque boost when the driver pushes the throttle. Another benefit is that the ISG allows the engine to run without belts or any other mechanical coupling to the car's accessories. This allows load mgt., including load-shedding when higher priority needs are occur through the 48V bus. If you've flown on a B787 recently, you've already encountered the future in a "More Electric Aircraft". The B787, is, by far, the most efficient jetliner ever built. The Mercedes 48V system is the automobile equivalent of the B787 More Electric Aircraft, and is coming to a car near you soon - including Corvette.
05-03-2018, 04:59 PM
#48
Team Owner
Unfortunately, from an engineering standpoint, boost is the future for ICE's, as is a 48V integral starter-generator (ISG) between the flywheel and the transmission, that is tied to an Li-Ion battery to store energy. The reason has less to do with real world fuel economy than it does with increasingly tough emission regulations from every government in the world.
Mercedes-Benz is leading on this issue and their 2020 product plan is a 3.0L turbo I-6 with a 48V ISG and a battery for almost every car in their line-up. Porsche is not far behind, and every Porsche sold today is boosted with the lone exception on the GT3. Eventually the same will be true for GM and Corvette.
From a drivability standpoint, the big issue with turbos is lag, however two approaches mitigate this - close coupling of the turbos to the exhaust manifold via the "Hot Vee" setup, and the use of an ISG, to provide the initial torque boost when the driver pushes the throttle. Another benefit is that the ISG allows the engine to run without belts or any other mechanical coupling to the car's accessories. This allows load mgt., including load-shedding when higher priority needs are occur through the 48V bus. If you've flown on a B787 recently, you've already encountered the future in a "More Electric Aircraft". The B787, is, by far, the most efficient jetliner ever built. The Mercedes 48V system is the automobile equivalent of the B787 More Electric Aircraft, and is coming to a car near you soon - including Corvette.
Mercedes-Benz is leading on this issue and their 2020 product plan is a 3.0L turbo I-6 with a 48V ISG and a battery for almost every car in their line-up. Porsche is not far behind, and every Porsche sold today is boosted with the lone exception on the GT3. Eventually the same will be true for GM and Corvette.
From a drivability standpoint, the big issue with turbos is lag, however two approaches mitigate this - close coupling of the turbos to the exhaust manifold via the "Hot Vee" setup, and the use of an ISG, to provide the initial torque boost when the driver pushes the throttle. Another benefit is that the ISG allows the engine to run without belts or any other mechanical coupling to the car's accessories. This allows load mgt., including load-shedding when higher priority needs are occur through the 48V bus. If you've flown on a B787 recently, you've already encountered the future in a "More Electric Aircraft". The B787, is, by far, the most efficient jetliner ever built. The Mercedes 48V system is the automobile equivalent of the B787 More Electric Aircraft, and is coming to a car near you soon - including Corvette.
05-03-2018, 09:05 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Hybrid Voltage Standards
Hi, Joe. I looked through all the Honda propaganda and the SAE and IEEE Spectrum articles on the Acura NSX Hybrid / ISG (called a Direct-Drive Motor), and all I could find is that their Li-Ion battery is fairly small - only 1KW. They do not mention voltage except that they say the main bus has a DC/DC convertor to get 12VDC power for some accessories, (radio, etc.). Based on everything else I have read about auto industry accessory supplier trends, however, I would bet it is 48V like the Mercedes system.
The only other standards I know of are for aircraft which are either 28VDC 115V AC or 270V AC at 400 hz....I don't think they used any one of those.
If anyone else has a better idea on where these hybrids are settling out WRT to electrical specifications, the Corvette community would love to know.
The only other standards I know of are for aircraft which are either 28VDC 115V AC or 270V AC at 400 hz....I don't think they used any one of those.
If anyone else has a better idea on where these hybrids are settling out WRT to electrical specifications, the Corvette community would love to know.
05-03-2018, 09:54 PM
#50
Racer
On the other hand.......
Years ago the manual trans beat the slushbox handily. But having driven a Lambo with a dual clutch, I'm convinced that the manual cannot beat a dual clutch transmission, so why would you want to slow down your C8?
05-03-2018, 10:04 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
What is not clear is the one can commune with the car way better with a manual than with a DCT. For example: say one is cruising down the interstate and for some reason or another, you decide to downshift 4 gears, nail the throttle, to pass, then sift back into 7th. A manual can do this in 2 shifts, and 2 clutch depressions. A DCT takes 4 down and another 4 back up. {Yes it may take some good footwork to pull it off without a grind, but that learning is part of communing with the car--even if it is still slower.}
05-03-2018, 11:08 PM
#52
500 horse LT1 with a stick and rwd and I'm in.... KISS.
05-04-2018, 07:41 AM
#53
Team Owner
It is clear that a DCT will be faster than any human--even shifting a Lenco.
What is not clear is the one can commune with the car way better with a manual than with a DCT. For example: say one is cruising down the interstate and for some reason or another, you decide to downshift 4 gears, nail the throttle, to pass, then sift back into 7th. A manual can do this in 2 shifts, and 2 clutch depressions. A DCT takes 4 down and another 4 back up. {Yes it may take some good footwork to pull it off without a grind, but that learning is part of communing with the car--even if it is still slower.}
What is not clear is the one can commune with the car way better with a manual than with a DCT. For example: say one is cruising down the interstate and for some reason or another, you decide to downshift 4 gears, nail the throttle, to pass, then sift back into 7th. A manual can do this in 2 shifts, and 2 clutch depressions. A DCT takes 4 down and another 4 back up. {Yes it may take some good footwork to pull it off without a grind, but that learning is part of communing with the car--even if it is still slower.}
05-05-2018, 03:37 PM
#56
Safety Car
That’s because there will be no V6 (of any kind) in my ME. Mine will have a V8 — as will others.
I have rarely seen on person get on such a sustained kick after talking to just one person.. Please post back with your theory when you have second and third independent sources.
I have rarely seen on person get on such a sustained kick after talking to just one person.. Please post back with your theory when you have second and third independent sources.
The following users liked this post:
91ZR1 (05-05-2018)
