Anyone associated with C7 design working on C8?
05-09-2018, 01:58 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
I totally get that the ZR1 design enhancements are dictated by performance considerations. Like all things Corvette, it's a great engineering achievement. Almost unbelievable it's so good.
But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the C7 is the best looking Vette--by far--since the early C3s. BY FAR.
But the ZR1 looks like a C7 that got whupped with an ugly stick.
But beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the C7 is the best looking Vette--by far--since the early C3s. BY FAR.
But the ZR1 looks like a C7 that got whupped with an ugly stick.
The stylists then worked the add-ones to make it look "bad-a$$", and indeed it does, but it's not pretty anymore. Example - the rear wing - it could uave been a constant chord straight wing, but the stylists had to make it a cross between a boomerang and the head of a hammerhead shark. As an aerodynamicist by profession, I think it just looks goofy, but I'm an Occam's Razor kind of guy. The thing is, if they just wanted to make a C7 go faster around a track, they already had a race-proven example, the C7.R. It's a much better looking car than a ZR1. All they had to do was make it DOT-compliant, (i.e. reduce wing span, etc.). Everyone would have liked it and understood WHY the changes were made to it.
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IronV (05-09-2018)
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jimmyb (05-09-2018)
05-12-2018, 05:01 PM
#45
Safety Car
There are a lot of aspects I like about the C5 over the C7. The hood and quarter panels are lower. I like the roundness of it compared to all the sharp edges and creases on the C7. But I still want to upgrade to a C7 for the performance. Would prefer a C8 to a C7 but it's out of my price range for a while.
05-14-2018, 09:39 AM
#46
Race Director
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St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
I was at a dealer a few weeks ago looking at their C7 inventory. I definitely prefer the looks of the stingray to the GS or Z06.
There are a lot of aspects I like about the C5 over the C7. The hood and quarter panels are lower. I like the roundness of it compared to all the sharp edges and creases on the C7. But I still want to upgrade to a C7 for the performance. Would prefer a C8 to a C7 but it's out of my price range for a while.
There are a lot of aspects I like about the C5 over the C7. The hood and quarter panels are lower. I like the roundness of it compared to all the sharp edges and creases on the C7. But I still want to upgrade to a C7 for the performance. Would prefer a C8 to a C7 but it's out of my price range for a while.
Same here. I think the C5 has one of the best looking bodies of any Corvette, especially looking from the rear quarter forward. I might prefer the front end of the C6 slightly. But I bought and would buy again the C7 for the performance and pure fun. I still like the appearance of the C7, but would agree with you, the clean, smooth lines of the C5 are hard to beat.
05-14-2018, 03:02 PM
#47
Team Owner
Same here. I think the C5 has one of the best looking bodies of any Corvette, especially looking from the rear quarter forward. I might prefer the front end of the C6 slightly. But I bought and would buy again the C7 for the performance and pure fun. I still like the appearance of the C7, but would agree with you, the clean, smooth lines of the C5 are hard to beat.
05-15-2018, 05:50 AM
#49
Melting Slicks
I'm a fairly young guy and I hope to see a more sophisticated look with the C8, as compared to the ZR-1 and Z06. I think it would be worthwhile to bring some new designers in to aid the process that are going to come at it from a different angle. There are too many pars of those vehicles that appear to be aftermarket accessories.
Still mostly good looking cars, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
Still mostly good looking cars, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
05-18-2018, 12:34 PM
#50
Race Director
^^^^^^
I agree. The best looking C7, IMO, is the BASE car. No spoiler, just a nice, clean, modern design. I did NOT get Z51 BECAUSE of the tacked on rear spoiler (Z51 was only $2,800 extra when I ordered my car in August 2013 so it sure wasn't the money). I even asked if they would build me a mag ride Z51 and leave the rear spoiler off. Obviously, that answer was NO.
I agree. The best looking C7, IMO, is the BASE car. No spoiler, just a nice, clean, modern design. I did NOT get Z51 BECAUSE of the tacked on rear spoiler (Z51 was only $2,800 extra when I ordered my car in August 2013 so it sure wasn't the money). I even asked if they would build me a mag ride Z51 and leave the rear spoiler off. Obviously, that answer was NO.
Last edited by jimmyb; 05-18-2018 at 12:35 PM.
05-18-2018, 01:27 PM
#51
Race Director
Plus, available evidence suggests it was much more of a coincidence than a copy. You are surely aware of the clearly influential Vette design studies, starting with 1986's Corvette Indy, then the 1990 CERV III, followed by Peters' "red car" and Cafaro's "black car," which all predate the release of the 3rd Gen RX-7.
Perhaps the Mazda designers, who were not afraid to channel Porsche themes into their first 2 RX-7's, were more influenced by what the Vette design team had been floating...
Let's hope the current crew gets the Zora right at they did with the C5 -- classy, Vette through and through -- but not gaudy, over-wrought, or "trendy."
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FrankLP (05-26-2018)
05-20-2018, 11:18 AM
#52
Le Mans Master
Just keep in mind that the ZR1 is an over the top car with over the top performance. Much of the things that some are objecting to are things you want the car to have at 200+ mph.
I suspect that the next Corvette will look pretty nice, like every other Corvette produced (given what was happening at the time)
I suspect that the next Corvette will look pretty nice, like every other Corvette produced (given what was happening at the time)
05-20-2018, 02:23 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
05-20-2018, 03:05 PM
#54
what do you think,they fired everybody and got new people?,most of the engineers work 20-30 years on the cars,so they work on 100+ new/different cars/trucks
and some engineers will work on 5 different cars/trucks at 1 time
and some engineers will work on 5 different cars/trucks at 1 time
05-20-2018, 03:21 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
Veyron is a completely different platform. But, yeah, it has a wing, and inlets in the front etc. Packaged a little differently of course.
https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/b...05.html#agal_2
In 2005 it ran a 7:40 on the ring. Considering the Camaro Zl1-1LE ran a 7:16 on it this year, I suspect the Veyron could use a little more of the ZR1 stuff, perhaps.
But, if we're talking about straight line speed, I digress.
https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/b...05.html#agal_2
In 2005 it ran a 7:40 on the ring. Considering the Camaro Zl1-1LE ran a 7:16 on it this year, I suspect the Veyron could use a little more of the ZR1 stuff, perhaps.
But, if we're talking about straight line speed, I digress.
Last edited by lt4obsesses; 05-20-2018 at 03:28 PM.
05-20-2018, 03:36 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Feb 2018
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GM lost their way with current Z06 and ZR1
I'm a fairly young guy and I hope to see a more sophisticated look with the C8, as compared to the ZR-1 and Z06. I think it would be worthwhile to bring some new designers in to aid the process that are going to come at it from a different angle. There are too many pars of those vehicles that appear to be aftermarket accessories.
Still mostly good looking cars, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
Still mostly good looking cars, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
05-21-2018, 04:15 PM
#57
The C7 design team is the ME design team, with the exception of the GM Chief of Global Design Ed Welburn who resigned last June, and who was replaced by Michael Simcoe.
The person who initially sketched the C7, Hwasup Lee, who developed the sketch that became the C7, is working on the ME, as is Kirk Bennion (Chief Designed, Tom Peters (Director of Exterior Design for High Performance Vehicles), and many more.
Essentially, the C7 team is with that one exception, the ME design team.
The person who initially sketched the C7, Hwasup Lee, who developed the sketch that became the C7, is working on the ME, as is Kirk Bennion (Chief Designed, Tom Peters (Director of Exterior Design for High Performance Vehicles), and many more.
Essentially, the C7 team is with that one exception, the ME design team.
05-21-2018, 04:58 PM
#58
Safety Car
I never saw the pre-C7 ME design sketches. Anyone have them?
The only older sketch I have is when “Americana” interviewed Ed Welburn in the GM Design Studio in 2015, and was at that moment talking with Christine Park. Notice what is in the upper right background? Perhaps this was one of the early design sketches (though with all us knowing that early sketches are often exaggerated “idea forms” which later get toned down and/or outright changed as they evolve into production versions).
We have heard, similar to the hood on that sketch, that the ME at least in its HP version, will have multiple hood ducts, so???
The only older sketch I have is when “Americana” interviewed Ed Welburn in the GM Design Studio in 2015, and was at that moment talking with Christine Park. Notice what is in the upper right background? Perhaps this was one of the early design sketches (though with all us knowing that early sketches are often exaggerated “idea forms” which later get toned down and/or outright changed as they evolve into production versions).
We have heard, similar to the hood on that sketch, that the ME at least in its HP version, will have multiple hood ducts, so???
Last edited by elegant; 05-21-2018 at 05:07 PM.
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RedDropTop (05-21-2018)
05-21-2018, 05:50 PM
#59
Safety Car
Just found this which Don Sherman of Car and Driver says was a 2006-2008 GM Engineering proposal for a future mid engine Corvette. However, as noted in the below article, the rendering was not done by GM, but by C&D’s artist.
https://www.caranddriver.com/flipboo...et-corvette#11
Originally Posted by Car & Driver
2006–2008 C7 Engineering Proposal
Instead of adopting a mid-engine layout for the sixth-generation Corvette, introduced in 2005, engineers focused on enhancing performance with better handling and additional power. The Z06 version packed 505 horses into a 7.0-liter small-block. Topping the 6.2-liter V-8 with a supercharger yielded the 638-hp ZR1. A cost-effective Grand Sport brought comprehensive suspension and brake upgrades.
These achievements did not hinder assistant chief engineer Tadge Juechter from championing the move to mid-engine just like his predecessors. GM designers played along with a full-size clay and more than a dozen scale-model alternatives. (The image here was created by C/D’s own Cory Wolfe, not GM.) Tom Wallace, Juechter’s boss and an inveterate road racer, was an easy sell. GM product chief Bob Lutz was initially skeptical but became convinced by the Juechter-Wallace tag team. The three mid-engine musketeers then won over chairman Rick Wagoner.
Unfortunately, GM was bleeding cash, and it slipped into bankruptcy when the Great Recession hit in 2009. The mid-engined Corvette—along with every dollar aimed at developing any new sports car—left the building with Wagoner. When the feds arrived to revive GM, an early discovery was the fat profits associated with selling 30,000 or so Corvettes per year. Work on the seventh generation quickly resumed, but the time was not right to risk the mid-engine move.
Fortunately, C7 has helped GM thrive, and the planets have finally swung into alignment. Just as Road & Track did in 1970, we’ll stake our reputation on the mid-engined C8 Corvette arriving before the end of next year
Instead of adopting a mid-engine layout for the sixth-generation Corvette, introduced in 2005, engineers focused on enhancing performance with better handling and additional power. The Z06 version packed 505 horses into a 7.0-liter small-block. Topping the 6.2-liter V-8 with a supercharger yielded the 638-hp ZR1. A cost-effective Grand Sport brought comprehensive suspension and brake upgrades.
These achievements did not hinder assistant chief engineer Tadge Juechter from championing the move to mid-engine just like his predecessors. GM designers played along with a full-size clay and more than a dozen scale-model alternatives. (The image here was created by C/D’s own Cory Wolfe, not GM.) Tom Wallace, Juechter’s boss and an inveterate road racer, was an easy sell. GM product chief Bob Lutz was initially skeptical but became convinced by the Juechter-Wallace tag team. The three mid-engine musketeers then won over chairman Rick Wagoner.
Unfortunately, GM was bleeding cash, and it slipped into bankruptcy when the Great Recession hit in 2009. The mid-engined Corvette—along with every dollar aimed at developing any new sports car—left the building with Wagoner. When the feds arrived to revive GM, an early discovery was the fat profits associated with selling 30,000 or so Corvettes per year. Work on the seventh generation quickly resumed, but the time was not right to risk the mid-engine move.
Fortunately, C7 has helped GM thrive, and the planets have finally swung into alignment. Just as Road & Track did in 1970, we’ll stake our reputation on the mid-engined C8 Corvette arriving before the end of next year
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RedDropTop (05-21-2018)
