No manual trans = Garbage
05-28-2018, 04:15 AM
#41
I thought the 911 R showed everyone that the manual transmission is still relevant in the eyes of enthusiats. And now the GT3 is available with a stick shift once again.
For me, it's manual or nothing. At least while I am still physically able to operate the clutch. I just prefer the additional connection to the car, attempting to heel/toe (and GM's rev-matching even lets me be lazy when I want), etc.
The manual offers things that any automatic (DCT, slushbox, or otherwise) can not match. Conversely, the automatics offer straight line performance, shift speed, and shift precision that a manual can not consistently match. In an enthusiast type car, both should be available, IMO.
Hopefully GM can do that (or are they just not as capable as Porsche, who seems to manage...).
-T
For me, it's manual or nothing. At least while I am still physically able to operate the clutch. I just prefer the additional connection to the car, attempting to heel/toe (and GM's rev-matching even lets me be lazy when I want), etc.
The manual offers things that any automatic (DCT, slushbox, or otherwise) can not match. Conversely, the automatics offer straight line performance, shift speed, and shift precision that a manual can not consistently match. In an enthusiast type car, both should be available, IMO.
Hopefully GM can do that (or are they just not as capable as Porsche, who seems to manage...).
-T
Last edited by Trackaholic; 05-28-2018 at 04:17 AM.
05-28-2018, 08:41 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.
^That was my thought precisely when I saw the interview when he stated that. Isn't "using a little ring to steer the car" also a mundane process when you define it like that? I guess the ultimate is to buy a Corvette that just hustles you around a road course like an amusement park ride?
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05-28-2018, 10:28 AM
#46
Safety Car
Can someone with one of the various VW DCTs(Audi, Porsche, Lambo) tell me what happens when you go from a 5th gear straight to a 1st or second gear turn. Does it shift from 5th to first? or sequentially down from 5th making 4 shifts? I see all of the talk about the speed of downshifts. Is that normally a problem on a track? Or just in unexpected street racing? Aren't usually braking with plenty of time to down shift? I thought that was what heal and toe was for? On a manual you can shift from 5th to 1st in one shift. Same on upshift, but there is less call for that to happen quickly. I don't ever recall doing that on a track.
Speed on upshift, I get.
Speed on upshift, I get.
05-28-2018, 10:32 AM
#47
Safety Car
2020 Z06 and ZR1 manuals will be available.
05-28-2018, 01:28 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
I thought the 911 R showed everyone that the manual transmission is still relevant in the eyes of enthusiats. And now the GT3 is available with a stick shift once again.
For me, it's manual or nothing. At least while I am still physically able to operate the clutch. I just prefer the additional connection to the car, attempting to heel/toe (and GM's rev-matching even lets me be lazy when I want), etc.
The manual offers things that any automatic (DCT, slushbox, or otherwise) can not match. Conversely, the automatics offer straight line performance, shift speed, and shift precision that a manual can not consistently match. In an enthusiast type car, both should be available, IMO.
Hopefully GM can do that (or are they just not as capable as Porsche, who seems to manage...).
-T
For me, it's manual or nothing. At least while I am still physically able to operate the clutch. I just prefer the additional connection to the car, attempting to heel/toe (and GM's rev-matching even lets me be lazy when I want), etc.
The manual offers things that any automatic (DCT, slushbox, or otherwise) can not match. Conversely, the automatics offer straight line performance, shift speed, and shift precision that a manual can not consistently match. In an enthusiast type car, both should be available, IMO.
Hopefully GM can do that (or are they just not as capable as Porsche, who seems to manage...).
-T
I think the 1st few years the ME will be only available in a DCT, then the performance model will be available in both manual and DCT. It’s a guess that i am sticking with
makes marketing and manufacturing sense. Keep cost down while developing the car overtime.
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05-28-2018, 02:42 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
I think part of the problem is that engines have gotten so powerful they are outpacing the availability of high quality clutch material/setups that will meet the demands of OEM reliability for a wide... spectrum of users. Who will each use a "clutch" differently.
They need a solution that "anybody" can drive "poorly" that won't cost $1000 in parts to change each time.
They need a solution that "anybody" can drive "poorly" that won't cost $1000 in parts to change each time.
05-28-2018, 04:37 PM
#52
Team Owner
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05-28-2018, 05:48 PM
#53
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Ever go toe to toe against a 600rwhp gtr from a 35mph and hang? Thats in a intake/tune c6z06.
i have.. i aint worried about it
05-28-2018, 06:35 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
Unbelievable...I just read your statement...
So there going to sell the 2020 c7 zo6 and zr1 and the
2020 C8 mid engine side by side?
If that is the case,I’ll go all in ....
If they do decide to build a FRONT engine corvette at the same time as the new MID engine corvette,
The front engine car ,will and can only be a low volume and higher priced car then the mid engine C8,
So there going to sell the 2020 c7 zo6 and zr1 and the
2020 C8 mid engine side by side?
If that is the case,I’ll go all in ....
If they do decide to build a FRONT engine corvette at the same time as the new MID engine corvette,
The front engine car ,will and can only be a low volume and higher priced car then the mid engine C8,
05-28-2018, 09:37 PM
#55
Can someone with one of the various VW DCTs(Audi, Porsche, Lambo) tell me what happens when you go from a 5th gear straight to a 1st or second gear turn. Does it shift from 5th to first? or sequentially down from 5th making 4 shifts? I see all of the talk about the speed of downshifts. Is that normally a problem on a track? Or just in unexpected street racing? Aren't usually braking with plenty of time to down shift? I thought that was what heal and toe was for? On a manual you can shift from 5th to 1st in one shift. Same on upshift, but there is less call for that to happen quickly. I don't ever recall doing that on a track.
Speed on upshift, I get.
Speed on upshift, I get.
A well executed DCT will be just as fast. On my M4, you could click the downshift paddle 3 times (literally as fast as you could click it) and it would immediately downshift 3 gears. The reality is it's rare you are skipping more than two gears and a DCT will do it as fast as I can in my manual cars. They absolutely skip gears. The other things DCT's will do is automatically shift to the lowest available gear... say I'm cruising in 7th on the highway, I floor the car and downshift once... the M4 would automatically shift to the lowest possible gear instantly skipping everything in the middle.
I love manuals. Of the 35+ cars I've owned, probably 28 were manuals. My dedicated track car was a manual and I can shift as fast (up or down) as the next guy. However, in no situation on a track (or the street) was I not faster in the DCT in my M3 and M4.
I'm all for people wanting a manual for subjective reasons but no one will ever convince me that a properly executed DCT is not faster in
practically every way compared to even very skilled manual drivers.
I'm not sure yet if I'd buy the C8 in a manual (if offered) or a DCT. Unlike some people, I drive my DCT's in manual mode 100% of the time and it is absolutely fun and engaging. So is a manual
Last edited by gthal; 05-28-2018 at 09:44 PM.
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05-28-2018, 09:42 PM
#56
Drive two completely identical cars... one with a DCT and one with a manual and see which will give you a faster time. You can debate this till the cows come home but it doesn't change the fact that all else the same, a DCT is faster. It is not physically possible for you to be as quick... not to mention many cars today with turbos keep them spooled up with a DCT between shifts and don't with manuals.
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05-28-2018, 10:17 PM
#57
Safety Car
I would love for all who from now on in their posts, says “no manual = no ME for me” to, from now on to state that they have or have not driven a DCT within the last four years (when even more enhancements to them have come on line).
Conversely, if one next year were to drive a 2020 ME Corvette and then post, “I tried it, but do not like it and am thus getting a 2020 Z06, ZR1 or other manual,” I would be 1000% good with that.
And also 1000% fine with someone who has recently driven a DCT, saying that they will only get a clutched-pedal-manual in the future.
Conversely, if one next year were to drive a 2020 ME Corvette and then post, “I tried it, but do not like it and am thus getting a 2020 Z06, ZR1 or other manual,” I would be 1000% good with that.
And also 1000% fine with someone who has recently driven a DCT, saying that they will only get a clutched-pedal-manual in the future.
Last edited by elegant; 05-28-2018 at 11:24 PM.
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05-28-2018, 10:52 PM
#58
Racer
Member Since: Nov 2017
Location: Wentzville MO & Port Charlotte, FL
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Right now it's not even humanly possible to shift faster than a modern DCT, I don't care how fast you think you can shift with a manual. You're not going to shift faster than a DCT, you can do all the chest pumping you want about it but it's literally not humanly possible. As far as whether the C8 will have a manual and DCT I think that is possible to have both, doesn't really bother me what they put in it, standard auto, manual, or dct I'll drive one.
I haven't looked on my Lambo but I know within the next 5 years there is no major service needed to the DCT but it's a dual clutch not a single clutch.
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05-29-2018, 04:03 AM
#60
Le Mans Master
I think they should offer a manual. It's just a part of Corvette to have it available. Sure, there is no way anyone is going to shift faster than a DCT or even the 10spd in the ZL1, check out some videos if you haven't, it's pretty amazing.
They might even land some cross shoppers by offering it in a mid engine. A manual gear box offers a certain connective relationship with the car that an auto gearbox just can't give. Also having that direct control over gears and rpms, a driver can find their personal "sweet spot" on their favorite track, or twisty road. Sometimes a computerized gearbox just won't get that for you. Yes, the stick's lap time might be a little slower, but for some it's more about the experience than those couple of tenths. I feel like the Corvette team understands this about their car and their customer.
They might even land some cross shoppers by offering it in a mid engine. A manual gear box offers a certain connective relationship with the car that an auto gearbox just can't give. Also having that direct control over gears and rpms, a driver can find their personal "sweet spot" on their favorite track, or twisty road. Sometimes a computerized gearbox just won't get that for you. Yes, the stick's lap time might be a little slower, but for some it's more about the experience than those couple of tenths. I feel like the Corvette team understands this about their car and their customer.
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