Suns_PSD

Light makes right.

Once you get to 450 rwhp less weight is more important.

My dream C8 is sort of basic, NA 550 hp rating, manual, removable roof, 3100#. I know, nearly impossible.

_zebra

you can still buy A4s and A5s (quattros, even) with a stick

Kingtal0n

they probably did look at twin and triple type of clutch. I am sure it came up at some point as a possibility. In some applications they are used. It may have something to do with safety factor of putting that much power applied in direct control. Or maybe the noise of floater discs was off putting. Just guessing here. Love to guess. Maybe the cost of replacement was too high, as the unit would need to be extremely well built beyond typical OEM clutch. It is alot more like a racing clutch at this level that needs to be quiet, well cooled, and OEM wife driveable I guess. Its just what the crowd expects, maybe subconciously lol

sunsalem

Now THAT would be a great first step ME for GM.

JoesC5

GM has a patent on a DCT with a torque converter and I believe that Acura has a DCT with a torque converter in production.

JerriVette

Porsche managed to mimic a torque converter automatic at low speed crawl through computer tuning.

I’m sure GM has greater capability than Porsche in pcm tuning .

OF course I’m biased.


I personally don’t think we will see a torque converter in the GM chosen dct supplied but it’s just a guess.

None of us know anything. We are all bullish ting. That said I have not seen any official comments to back up the RUMOR of no manual transmission in the upcoming c8.

JGarland

Quinten33

C8 General Discussion, No manual trans = Garbage, post 125, 9:41am 6/1/18

Marked in my iphone calendar for 6/1/20

rgregory

If they use it solely to engage 1st gear and then lock it I would be ok with that.

JoesC5

I believe that that is the way they operate.

AORoads

That's not the argument I would use. After all, done properly (which, so far, not many have done well on public streets), the entire car can be "computer controlled." You get in, start the car, and off it goes w/o your, the driver's, input.

The lead up to that moment of "driver" non-involvement is coming and this is just one blip on that road to getting in and going. Indeed, at some point, no one in a car will be "a driver."

For me, I'd like to postpone that day for as long as possible.

SBC_and_a_stick

The full story on cost is that you have to develop the car from the get go to accept a 3-pedal h-pattern stick shift. The real reason GM will ditch the manual for the ME car is that it will cost some money to make a car compatible with both. That stamping you are talking about is just one of many parts that need to be specifically made for manual.

The truth is GM can offer a cheaper DCT if they only design the car around the DCT, bringing entry price lower. That's the reason they won't offer stick for 20% of the buyers who want one. The stick option brings up the development costs up for ALL cars.

Second, a car designed around only one transmission is a lighter, simpler car. We got those benefits before with cars like the S2000, except in all manual form.

Exactly! Most autos are bought with convertible base cars that don't see any competition, nor are they built for it. It's folks wanting to look good, cruise, and tan their bald head. Nothing wrong with all of that of course. But now we see the same guys trying to have their cake and eat it too, claiming that they got auto because it was the faster option. BS.

The fast guys love manuals because they are fun, reliable, high torque compatible, upgradeable, and cheap. Why would you sink tons of money in a transmission on the road course to get 2 tenths, when most guys can't afford the tires and brakes which lose them seconds? The only guys that can benefit from autos are building class wining cars for tons of $$$, only a few of those guys.

NY09C6

I have driven a DCT and a DCT is just as fun as an old school auto for me. Zero fun.

jimmyb

Alrighty then...it's the bald guys buying base convertibles that skew the automatic/manual thing. Great theory, completely WRONG.
Convertibles make up 17% of total Corvette sales. Automatics make up 80% (give or take a % +/-) of ALL models/body styles of the C7. Sorry, your math doesn't work.

Here IS the math, in nice round numbers (based on 80% automatic and 17% convertible):
20,000 C7's (Stingray/GS/Z06/ZR1) sold.
3,400 would be convertibles (17% of 20,000)
16,000 (out of 20,000) would be automatics. (80% of 20,000)

I AM one of those bald guys with a BASE Stingray...with a 7 speed manual. Clearly, most coupes, regardless of model, are automatics. Even if EVERY convertible was an automatic, the ratio (coupes) is still very heavily skewed in favor of the automatic.

One need only read the NEW CAR DAY! threads in the ZR1 forum. The vast majority of those posting bought automatics.

rgregory

I race a manual transmission. My fun driver has a SMG and I like it because it still has a clutch and does what is commanded. I never have liked the disconnected feeling between the engine and the wheels of a torque converter. I guess being an engineering I like the SMG technology but the newer cars do not have the raw feel of the SMG in my car.

JoesC5

One hand holding my camera out the driver's window, one hand steering and one hand shifting my manual transmission. All at the same time. Exciting.





Quickly running out of hands.

Kingtal0n

Couple of things I could comment on

Autos do better in traffic situation
burnouts are easier on the drivetrain and easier to initite and control with an auto
when tire is limited, automatic transmission + torque management is still faster and more consistent than any manual trans, even as a daily driver. Having it just kick the next gear without question, slightly spinning the tire perfectly is extremely satisfying.

And finally there is an auto called 4l80e which costs $500~ and supports 700-1000 horsepower. Some stock bottom end 6L gasoline trucks use this to go 9's reliably. So there is a way to use an auto without "sinking tons of money" if you use the right one. In fact this option is cheaper than any manual I am aware of @ 1000rwhp.

gthal

Then that's not a true DCT. My AMG had something similar and it was nowhere near as good as the true (no torque converter) DCT in my M3/M4.

LightningBolt

That's very presumptuous of you. You don't know what is underlying people's desires.

My wife had a DCT in her BMW. It was an expensive automatic that was no more fun to drive than our kid's Honda Civic. I don't care about any of the debates regarding which transmission is faster, technologically superior, etc. I just want to have fun driving my car, the automatic guys can steer anything they want. The automatic takes that connection away from me and at that point I might as well jump in a Tesla and set the Autopilot.

gthal

True... and some people get a similar level of enjoyment from a DCT.

I personally get the same joy driving a DCT in manual mode. I love both DCT's and MT's... for different reasons. I tend to buy a DCT and then miss the MT. Then buy a MT and then miss the DCT. Repeat. I often don't buy the same transmission 2 cars in a row. If I absolutely HAD to pick only one for the rest of my life, it would be tough... might be a DCT.

The intensity of reaction around transmission preference is worse than anything else!!!