RUMBL B

Manual all the way! Having a transmission shift for you... 1. is boring, and 2. is lazy (unless handicapped).

sunsalem

It is pretty funny how much time he has spent ragging on the C7 around here.

jimmyb

Not sure if it's "funny" or just ridiculous...

Actually, I am sure. It's ridiculous. I truly don't understand why Joe doesn't spend his time in the C6 Z06 sub forum. It is VERY lively, plenty of discussion, instead, the guy has talked about HIS C6 Z06's light weight, it's gas mileage, etc ad nauseum, ALL on the C7 forum. I can't wait for his view on the C8, although I bet I can write every thing he will have a problem with when it comes out.

sunsalem

After awhile, his shtick seemed more like trolling than anything else.
Honestly, I got so tired of it I put him on my Ignore List a long time back.

FlyinLow

All the statements about the Corvette sales dying because its going mid engine or no manual trans, there are a few things to think about. I remember how Cadillac was going to die when they stopped building old people cars and started the new edgy styling, what happened is they attracted a new market of buyers, which was what they were after. The same thing could likely happen with the Corvette. Alot of younger people don't want to buy the Corvette as they look at it as an old persons sports car, same old platform its always been (although more than capable). With the move to mid engine and DCT, they are going to attract a new wave of buyers to make up for anyone who decides they don't want to buy Corvettes anymore. Personally I'm looking forward to the new mid engine, hoping for a little more cabin room now that there's no need for the huge center tunnel.

Michael A

I don't think that's a good example. Cadillac sales are lower now than in 1998 just prior to the adoption of the "Art and Science" styling. In 1998, Cadillac sold 187,343 vehicles with the "old persons" styling. Last year, they only sold 156,440.

Sounds like they better keep the manual trans.

sunsalem

You're forgetting something...how many of Cadillac's "old people" have died since 1998?

HC-C7

Dude sorry to ruin your incorrect info .
But the 8 speed auto will smoke anyone or idiot who thinks the C7 ZO6 in manual trans is faster. If your info is correct why dont you put your money where your mouth is and race a 8 speed ZO6 for your cars title . Try not to cry when you lose your car not one time everytime genius.

gthal

This is off topic but Cadillac's real issue is brand image. No matter how edgy the styling is, no matter how the car performs... it is still a "Cadillac".

The ATS is a real alternative to the BMW 3 series but there is no way in hell you will see me driving a Cadillac. Heck, my wife would tease me about it not to mention the massive ribbing I'd get from friends!! I'm 45 and can't see me driving one because of the image of the car and the name. Similar to "Buick". It's not about the prestige of the brand but the perceived demographic of owners and it being a car for "more experienced" people regardless as to how much GM tries to change that. You won't find more than a handful of 30-something professionals choosing a Caddy over Audi, BMW, MB or even Lexus. GM needs to create a brand new luxury brand and move past the image of Cadillac IMO.

I suppose Corvette had a similar brand issue but it was FAR less of an issue and the C7 really did change that. Everyone I know in the 30-50 range appreciate the Corvette.

ltomn

You must not be paying attention to the races. Cadillac has been taking it to all competitors in IMSA. Literally to the point, like Corvette, of being dictated to downsize and down power their engines to make things more competitive. I think your grandfather's Cadillac is long gone!

Rapid Fred

Sadly, though, that does not seeem to have much of a dent on their image in America.

And, to the point of our Vettes, even the C7 has not really changed the Vette ownership demographic significantly. It is still largely purchased by old guys. If I can make a possible anology. When I was a real young guy, the C3 definitely seemed cool and desirable. By the time I was a "young" (30) man the C3 was considered a joke -- a terrible "image car" nowhere near as desireable as a host of Japanese and German competitors -- IMO for good reasons. Then the C4 came out, and my 30-YO sports car-fan friends were: "Hey, this thing changes the game -- wish I could afford one." (Sound familiar?)

C8/ME/Zora should further improve Vette appreciation among young, but not enough to change the buying demographic, I'm afraid. Hope I'm wrong...

sunsalem

You have a point.
They really do have an image problem.
The brand needs a complete re-think on how to market their cars.
Frankly, I don't really know what the solution is.
I have had 3 Cadillacs in the last 20 years: Escalade, XLR, CTS-V.
I loved 'em all.
The 2 cars constantly received compliments and questions everywhere I drove them.
Folks were surprised when I told them they were Cadillacs.
IMO, the change began with the C6 and the exposed headlights, but you're right, the C7 hit it out of the ballpark.

Not to mention their complete domination of the World Challenge series in the CTS-V.R and the ATS-V.R

I do too.
Over the years many have said Cadillac should have produced this car:

lt4obsesses

Buying a brand new Corvette requires a couple of things. First and foremost, enough disposable income to put into a recreational vehicle. Or if it is going to be the only car, a lifestyle that doesn't require more than two seats, or too much cargo space.

Given that, there is only one real demographic that fits, and that is the 50+ crowd. At that time people have reached or are near the pinnacle of their careers, equity on the home is more than is owed, and the kids are living on their own, or at least off to school. The trick is to design and market the car for the group entering that demographic.

What I have noticed, though I wouldn't even know where to find numbers to fact check it, is that more under 30's are buying used Corvettes. Perhaps this is a direct result of the reimaging from the C7, or perhaps it is just that the early C6's are now getting into the low $20K high teen mark. My experience and conversations with younger people (<30) is not that they think the Corvette is an "old man's car", most would love to have one, it's just that they perceive that only old men can afford one, which is true to a point. (bearing in mind that their definition of old may differ from ours, lol)

Back to topic, I think the most credible argument that there might not be a manual in the ME is the engineering aspect, though I'm confident they can do it, and will do it. Also I really think the ratio of manual cars to auto would be much different if dealers ordered more manuals for their lots.

lt4obsesses

Well, they kind of did, in making the CTS coupe. At least from the overall exterior design perspective.

ByByBMW

I would NEVER have confused this with my CTS coupe.

Kingtal0n

I mean, isn't using a lever stick "too automatic"? Why not open the trans case and push gears manually REALLY manually by hand, sliding them forwards and backwards. Using lever arm + shift fork to do this MANUAL job for you is alot like using a computer and a bunch of wires to move the same fork isn't it?

SBC_and_a_stick

Great math, too bad it is not answering the right question. Statistics is a tool not the q and a. What you really need to look at is take up rate for each type of car. Autos are picked more frequently for boulevard cruisers and less frequently for the sportier models.

I don't even have to think much to drive a manual in traffic. My muscles take it without ache. I don't get what folks are on about. It's like saying eating with chop sticks is too difficult so one has to use the fork everytime. I never finish a meal and complain about my forearm muscles aching or brain fatigue. Besides, working your brain and muscles is what keep them young. We are organisms not machines.


Perfect thought process! Indeed, taken seriously, the faster is better approach will lead to full automatic control of the car.

lt4obsesses

Ha ha, nor would I. Point is the inspiration for the coupe is there.

SBC_and_a_stick

Brilliant topic. Yes, I believe answering this question is very revealing for why the modern stick is such a great package.

There were nth iterations of the manual transmission. It is a package that was refined over a century. What we have today is finely tuned man machine connection. We have identified what we wish to control manually and have created an interface that is both engaging, effective, and cost efficient. The manual is a mature human invention.

It engages every limb while at the same time automating portions of car control that distract from the operation of the vehicle. I don't need to look at where the pedals or the stick are, it is intuitive and ergonomic. It requires enough effort to receive feedback from the machine but not too much effort to where it is hopelessly too tiring to operate. The location of the controls, the weight, the shape, the actuation range, these are all fine tuned mechanical pieces.

I don't think the future has much for us in terms of a true physical and mental man-machine connection. Get used to your keyboard and mouse.

jimmyb

OK.
Here it is, by model for 2017 model year (which was a FULL MY and the reason I used it).

Stingray Coupe: 11,253 total cars. 8,927 autos. 79.3% Automatic
Stingray Convertible: 2,298 total cars. 2,068 autos. 89.9% Automatic
GS Coupe: 9,912 cars. 7,685 autos. 77.5% Automatic
GS Convertible: 2,046 total cars. 1,723 autos. 84.2% Automatic
Z06 Coupe: 6,197 total cars. 4,297 autos. 69.3% Automatic
Z06 Convertible: 1,076 total cars. 856 autos. 79.5% Automatic

No surprise that Convertibles (of all flavors) have a higher percentage of automatics and skew the numbers higher in the automatic's favor. However, if we take out all the cars except the "enthusiast" models (GS Coupe and Z06 Coupe) the auto/manual percentage is STILL 74.3% auto/25.7% manual.