sunsalem

This is getting funny.
When posters start to wax poetically about a manual transmission the thread has outlived its usefulness.

JoesC5

lt4obsesses

As mentioned, I wonder how much of the auto sales on the Stingray are due more in part to dealership stock orders, than customer preference. Most people buy from dealer stock, and perhaps some dealerships use this as a tool to get that Z51 shopper to upgrade to the Z06, (if the customer has the means)

BillY2KFRC

Well produced video that may help articulate the feeling behind why some of us will miss the manual:

jimmyb

My only point was that you "blamed" the base Stingray convertible for the high automatic percentage. I provided the info that shows that, like it or not, nearly 75% of Corvette buyers STILL choose automatics on the "enthusiast" cars (GS/Z06 Coupe). I left out the Stingray Z51 because it's numbers were clearly impacted by the GS. But since you asked, here they are, 2016 (No GS) and 2017 (GS):

2016 Corvette Stingray Coupe:
21,387 total cars
16,945 were automatics: 79.2%
10,415 were FE3 (Z51) or FE4 (Z51 with mag ride): 48.7%
Of that 10,415 FE3/FE4 equipped cars 8,081 were automatics (77.6%)

2017 Corvette Stingray Coupe:
11,253 total cars
8,927 were automatics: 79.3%
3,705 were FE3 (Z51) or FE4 (Z51 with mag ride): 32.9%
Of that 3,705 FE3/FE4 equipped cars 2,946 were automatics (79.5%)

Throw those FE3/FE4 Stingray coupes into the "ENTHUSIAST" category (GS/Z06 COUPE) and the automatic percentage climbs to 75.3%

Note that while the automatic percentage was basically the same, FE3/FE4 percentage dropped nearly 16% (I would attribute that to the GS).

I'm not trying to argue here, just providing real NUMBERS instead of just saying here's how it is. The convertibles (regardless of model) don't skew the % that greatly (because Convertibles are less than 20% of the total Corvettes made). Take the info I provided and draw ANY conclusion you desire. If you don't see the point, no problem.

But this "snobbery" that if you DON'T track your Corvette, you're a POSER gets really old. I guess most GT3 owners are "POSERS" also.

Go back and read YOUR post (#130), you stated that "most automatics are bought with convertible base cars..."
The only reason I went through the exercise was to show that the above statement is patently untrue. And the numbers prove it. And instead of you saying: "Wow, I had no idea", you say you don't see the point or take rate of individual models doesn't matter. Well, first it did matter to you by implying that base convertibles were skewing the auto number way up (which they aren't), then you're proven wrong, and then you don't see the point.
Certainly base convertibles have a VERY high auto take rate, but the "enthusiast" cars still sit at 75% automatic and YOU can't blame that on convertibles.

I NEVER said people buy automatics because they're faster. I don't believe that's the reason. I think they buy autos because they: don't want to/are tired of, shifting gears. The fact that the autos ARE faster give the insecure a reason or justification for BUYING an automatic (even though they sure as hell don't need one...their money, their choice.)

Shaka

Why don't you Google TC stall speed and quit making things up.

jimmyb

There is no question that after the first year of a new generation, the automatic percentage jumps up. The HIGHEST number of manuals produced in the Stingray was 2014. The HIGHEST number of manuals produced in the Z06 was 2015. The first year is actual customer orders.
After that, you have dealers ordering inventory and they order more autos.
In 2014, automatics made up only 52.4% of FE3/FE4 Z51 Coupes.
In 2015, automatics made up only 44.3% of Z06 coupes.


Now, in 2019, try to find an IN STOCK 7 speed manual Convertible. It is tough to do, even though the first year of the C7, when it was CUSTOMER orders, the Convertible take rate was 65% auto/35% manual.
Again, I DON'T CARE what someone's preference is, transmission wise. My reason for taking MY time to research and type the information was to point out that it's not the "POSERS" (I hate that term) buying base Stingray convertibles that has driven the automatic number so high. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm pretty certain folks buy automatics because they don't want to shift gears....
Making any more out of this is kind of silly.

NY09C6

The number of people who know how to drive a stick is not large. The number of people who really enjoy driving a stick is even smaller. Everyone else will choose the auto.

sunsalem

I think this notion of folks not knowing how to work a manual trans. is overblown.

Anyone over 50, at a minimum, knows how to work a 3rd pedal.
Middle aged guys grew up with manuals...if you didn't know how back then, you didn't drive.
The Corvette demographic certainly knows how.
The vast majority of those who have the A8 just don't want to be bothered with an extra pedal or have health issues that make it difficult to live with.

Hell, the ricers (future Vette owners) use manuals.

jimmyb

^^^

Shaka

OK, so why do timing chains break on C6 Z06 manuals only? I bet you don't even know. Do you know that the C7 uses a C5R timing chain even though it has rev matching.
You can hear the lunartics on track days abusing their gear boxes through ignorance. My mother could shift gears, anybody can shift gears but not like Ricky Rudd and Boris Said.



What do you suppose they are doing with their left foot on the brake pedal? Mmmm.

Michael A

Actually, I am really enjoying all the deep thinking here on the "philosophy of the manual transmission".

jimmyb

In the end, if the C8 doesn't offer a manual, WE (the market) caused that. I still have very serious doubts that the C8 will by automatic only, we'll find out soon enough.

MitchAlsup

It is not an AUTO.
It is a DCT.

The DCT does NOT have a hydraulic clutch.

jimmyb

^^^^

Please, don't start this again....

Will it shift itself? Then it's an automatic. How it's built doesn't enter in to it. Shift itself is the very definition of "Automatic".
EVERY review in EVERY periodical describes a DCT: "Seven speed automatic with manual mode"

Kingtal0n

Alot of people that bypass the 600whp mark complain about manual transmissions being too 'needy' for performance driving.

I guess the gear ends so quickly you spend all your time shifting and trying to get it into the next gear four times per run gets old fast.

jimmyb

^^^^^

I think there's a lot of truth in that. Let's face it, things happen a LOT faster in a ZR1 than a GS.

Shaka

You're right, it has two. Two clutch packs with multiple discs each.

JoesC5

The 460 HP Z51/GS gears "ends so quickly" than the 650 HP Z06 and the 755 HP ZR1's gears do.

But the Z06 and ZR1 do accelerate up to speed in each gear faster, even with their taller gears.

The M7 Z51/GS has to shift from 1st to 2nd gear at 51 MPH, while the M7 Z06/ZR1 shifts at 66 MPH.

So, the question is, does it take longer for the Z51/GS to reach 51 MPH or does it take longer for the Z06/ZR1 to reach 66 MPH?

Kingtal0n

I just feel like the manual has its place but high power and heavy traffic isn't really where it shines.