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Aero Treatment We Might See On the HP Version?

Old 06-13-2018, 01:22 PM
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Default Aero Treatment We Might See On the HP Version?

McLaren pioneered the “hidden side skirt aero channel” on its 720S. I am guessing it has some air bleed attribute, maybe venting air from inside the front wheel cavity.

While the aero channels are not visible on the 720S, for the 2019 R8, Audi has decided for an aesthetic or functional reason, it should be very visible.

Might this become a feature of a 2021 high performance ME Corvette?


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Old 06-13-2018, 04:40 PM
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Default Boy He sure likes to spend money!? ;)

If the ZR1 has a chance, and it appears it does, on track, it is because the McLaren doesn't have adequate DF!!!! That sucker is all about speed!

Middle ground or more aero like the Viper and ZR1 is the cost effective race car like solution to that high speed grip!

Come on now this is a Corvette we are talking about here. Time to get back to basics (ME Style!).

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Old 06-13-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by johnglenntwo View Post
If the ZR1 has a chance, and it appears it does, on track, it is because the McLaren doesn't have adequate DF!!!! That sucker is all about speed!

Middle ground or more aero like the Viper and ZR1 is the cost effective race car like solution to that high speed grip!

Come on now this is a Corvette we are talking about here. Time to get back to basics (ME Style!).
same with the gt, both the 720s and gt are all about aero but they have little downforce enhancements

maybe chevy will follow the same path as the 720s to the senna?

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Old 06-13-2018, 05:47 PM
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There are lots of ways to create downforce. Our C7 aero packages, culminating with the big wing ZTK package is very exciting to most, however somewhat off-putting to others.

Just because the McLaren 720 S is a very visual opposite of the ZR1, let us not assume it has little downforce. The picture below shows one, ever-adjustable rear spoiler in its max downforce postion.

But there is so much more to 720 S. For example, even the headlight LED’s are angled in a way to increase downforce. Even the body shape, with all its internal ducting, creates 56% more downforce than the 650 S. [Source for both stats is McLaren Motorcars.]

As another example of aero and downforce not needing to be the beautiful (IMO), sharp-edged exterior mounted splitter, side skirts, spoiler/wing treatments we are used to in our C7’s, here a great video on how the Ferrari Pista (where “Pista” means track in Italian), accomplishes its aero without the C7 like sharp edged exterior components.


I think many are going to be very surprised as the entry ME’s, and much more so the later high performance ME’s, means of accomplishing its aero, including its downforce, with it “much softer” body sculpting, aero channeling models of the 720 S and the Pista.

The ME aero visuals are going to be so different than the beautiful C7 aero components we are used to.

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Old 06-13-2018, 05:56 PM
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Default How'bout the C6 ZR1 to the C7 ZR1 in the (3,200lb) Z51 Track Pack!

Originally Posted by eyedeekay View Post
same with the gt, both the 720s and gt are all about aero but they have little downforce enhancements

maybe chevy will follow the same path as the 720s to the senna?
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:39 PM
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Unlike GM, McLaren and Ferrari have had experience in F1 for many decades, and in F1 the name of the game is downforce.
I don't think we should just assume the C8 will have the aero sophistication of the other 2.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:45 PM
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It may have a few tricks that are big leaps for a "mass produced" GM vehicle, but expecting anything close to a McLaren, Ferrari, or Lamborghini will result in a big letdown.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:39 PM
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Default Besides, it's not even arguable that there are better ways to use up a budjet! ;)



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Old 06-13-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeG37 View Post

It may have a few tricks that are big leaps for a "mass produced" GM vehicle, but expecting anything close to a McLaren, Ferrari, or Lamborghini will result in a big letdown.
To be fair, GM has some of the best engineers in the industry. No they definitely won’t have the experience or resources Ferrari and McLaren have with their F1 teams but Lamborghini doesn’t have any more racing presence than Corvette and they came up with the very clever “ALA” active aerodynamics.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:58 AM
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Also GM does not need to invent the wheel, just astutely review and incorporate some or even many of other ME’s aero devices. Some of them, such as the Ferrari Pista’s underbody, mid-body vortex generators to reduce drag, can be easily added. Others are already shown on the CAD drawings to be on the ME such as the base air bleed, drag reduction ducts under the taillights (as shown in a 488 aero picture below).
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:41 AM
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Default A High Tech 3,200lb Automatic and eLSD option! ;)

The ZR1 has 950lbs of DF. The 488 has ~750lbs and is happy to do RW drifting!

EVOLVING LESSONS LEARNED! AERO!? NSM!

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Old 06-14-2018, 11:02 AM
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Serious downforce is needed for max-G cornering, but fixed downforce devices (even thought becoming more efficient) slow the car in the straights (or drag race/mile).

Active aero is the key to optimize downforce as needed for maximum efficiency throughout the performance envelope. GM's recent patent applications for front/rear active aero (combined with accelerometers and wheel/suspension sensors) appears to indicate that we may see the technology applied to the ME.

IMHO, active aero is essential as the ME will need every advantage it can get to outperform the "old-school" FE C7 ZR1.

Last edited by tomlink; 06-14-2018 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tomlink View Post
Serious downforce is needed for max-G cornering, but fixed downforce devices (even thought becoming more efficient) slow the car in the straights (or drag race/mile).

Active aero is the key to optimize downforce as needed for maximum efficiency throughout the performance envelope. GM's recent patent applications for front/rear active aero (combined with accelerometers and wheel/suspension sensors) appears to indicate that we may see the technology applied to the ME.

IMHO, active aero is essential as the ME will need every advantage it can get to outperform the "old-school" FE C7 ZR1.
Thanks tomlink for reminding about GM’s active aero patent!

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...or-the-c8.html

I sense some earlier posters are feeling that GM is second-rate in some aero areas. Conversely, I have confidence that future ME’s will similarly demonstrate GM’s expertise.

Last edited by elegant; 06-14-2018 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:34 AM
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Default Then what will the Truck Torque do!? ;)

That's right this is for the little higher end V8 Turbo!

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Old 06-14-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by elegant View Post
Also GM does not need to invent the wheel, just astutely review and incorporate some or even many of other ME’s aero devices. Some of them, such as the Ferrari Pista’s underbody, mid-body vortex generators to reduce drag, can be easily added. Others are already shown on the CAD drawings to be on the ME such as the base air bleed, drag reduction ducts under the taillights (as shown in a 488 aero picture below).
You seem to be a pretty decent fellah and I don't mean to insult you. I am anticipating the Zora with as much anxiety as everyone else here. Unfortunately, the misinformation (Fake news) generated in the C8 section is quite disturbing.
I've been designing cars since the late 60s.
I design and build my own chassis and aero systems. I'm ret. air force and an advanced aerobatic instructor. I know how airfoils work. I'm a mech. engineer.
This Ferrari video is nonsense. The squiggles all over it are not from CFD files and the descriptions of the functions of each element are created from a ill informed mind, just like our friend, FCS does.

I'm afraid that what you have stated above is not accurate at all. You can be fooled by the internet if you have no knowledge.

We have had great engineers on this forum years ago that have left. You have talked to them.
We had the aerodynamicist for the C5 and 6 on this forum. He used a different wind tunnels for each car and wrongly determined that the drag coefficient was lower on the C6. Each wind tunnel is different just like engine and chassis dynos.

The aircraft and auto industry, including F1, rely on CFD data which is far more reliable than wind tunnel info. I am using a CFD add on my design program on my new car.

My 600 hp 08 Z06 weighs 2900 lbs, the engine is 10" further back than stock, the rear upper A arms are my design which correct the poor geometry which still exists on the C7. The roll cage stiffens the chassis and I removed the torque tube. Those things that help feed my side feeder system for my rear diffuser are not vortex generators and not even boundary layer energizers.




















Once again, we have a derogatory comments on the Ford GT that ignores advances in modern aero development in sports cars.



Skank has a list of new technologies. I'm going to add some stuff to it regarding much misinformation about chassis design. It will probably fall upon deaf ears.













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Old 06-14-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by elegant View Post
Thanks tomlink for reminding about GM’s active aero patent!

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...or-the-c8.html

I sense some earlier posters are feeling that GM is second-rate in some aero areas. Conversely, I have confidence that future ME’s will similarly demonstrate GM’s expertise.
I don't think they are "second-rate" in terms of road car aerodynamics.
Road car aero doesn't demand the latest and greatest developments.
But if you are talking about state-of-the-art aero development, then yeah, they are.
McLaren and Ferrari are forever working on aero for their racing teams and that trickles down a little to their street cars.
Their F1 teams have annual budgets in the hundreds of millions dollars...every year.
And a large chunk of that goes into their aero programs.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by johnglenntwo View Post
That's right this is for the little higher end V8 Turbo!


What??


This has nothing to do with anything being discussed. I guess it shouldn't be surprising since you have no idea what is being discussed. Utterly clueless.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:04 PM
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Default C8R Aero! ;)

Originally Posted by Sub Driver View Post
What??
C8R homogolated frame, motor, and Aero - first! Then the street car. Then this hytec engineering lurefest!
Making my Corvette before the exotic wins! And it technically has to exist to legitimize the C8R.
Compensating for street tires and weight with a Porsche like mechanical locking diff/ braking should work too....

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Old 06-14-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sunsalem View Post
I don't think they are "second-rate" in terms of road car aerodynamics.
Road car aero doesn't demand the latest and greatest developments.
But if you are talking about state-of-the-art aero development, then yeah, they are.
McLaren and Ferrari are forever working on aero for their racing teams and that trickles down a little to their street cars.
Their F1 teams have annual budgets in the hundreds of millions dollars...every year.
And a large chunk of that goes into their aero programs.
All true points sunsalem, and while some elements of F1 aerodynamics translate into roadcars (like the undertray of the 488 Pista) the biggest challenge in Formula 1 aerodynamically is channeling all of the air around the giant wheels that it has, which are basically giant aerodynamic walls for the car. That's why the endplates of the front wing have so many vortex generators to channel air outside and over the wheels. While there is some small percentage of the wheel exposed to the oncoming air in a road car, the body blocks the vast majority of the wheel from interrupting the airflow, and hence why you don't see so many absurd shapes and winglets on prototype race cars. On road cars one of the biggest aerodynamic challenges from a drag perspective is the back of the car where air flowing around the car needs to rejoin quickly, creating a vacuum and significant parasitic drag. This is something the 488 Pista resolves with channeling air through the car to mitigate the vacuum effect:

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Old 06-14-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by elegant View Post
Also GM does not need to invent the wheel, just astutely review and incorporate some or even many of other ME’s aero devices. Some of them, such as the Ferrari Pista’s underbody, mid-body vortex generators to reduce drag, can be easily added. Others are already shown on the CAD drawings to be on the ME such as the base air bleed, drag reduction ducts under the taillights (as shown in a 488 aero picture below).
Utter nonsense.
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