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I agree with the OP. If Ford can charge $400,000 for its mid-engine supercar, why can’t GM make a very exclusive quality mid-engine high-priced supercar? Of course, I personally believe it will be sold as a separate model, and the front-engine Corvette will continue on.
Why would they want to is a better question. Ford is not making a DIME on the Ford GT. Ford is not even BUILDING the Ford GT - a Canadian company, Multi-Matic is building them for Ford. The Ford GT was a limited edition marketing exercise to promote the Eco-Boost V-6 and win LeMans. Period. The guy who pushed the idea at Ford, Raj Nair, did such a great job on that business case, he got fired.
For GM to make money on a new model car, you need sales volume. Corvette currently is the King Kong of the sports car world in sales volume, in that it holds over 50% of the US market for sports cars. If GM built the Ford GT, in Bowling Green, they could complete the entire planned production run IN ONE WEEK, and close the plant down for the rest of the year. Does that make ANY sense ? NO !!!
NOBODY can sell 33,000 cars priced over $100K in one year - NOBODY. If GM wants to retain its market share, it has to price the car close to what the C7 is selling for now. Any other argument is simply not observing the inability of the target market to buy such an expensive car.
In addition, it makes no sense to in-source a limited production car (less than 3000 units/year) in a dedicated plant like GM Bowling Green. (If you don't believe me, ask the Honda guys how building the NSX is working out for them.) If they wanted to do a Zora super-duper car, the logical approach would be to outsource it to someone like Multi-Matic or Dallara. They are NOT doing so. Cognito Ergo Zoom - they are building the ME C8 just like the C7 in the same plant with the same workers, so the price will be (about) the same. Nothing else closes the business case.
BTW, GM will likely sell and build about 1500 2019 ZR1's and (maybe) another 1000 next year. Anything over that is gravy. That is ~4% of total production.
I love these posters that start a thread, and then disappear.
There are FACTS here, contrary to what people say:
1. The plant just underwent an $800 MILLION re-do
2. BGA plant manager said the plant is set up to make 33,000 cars a year.
3. The IVER's we have seen are CLEARLY BASE cars (based on brakes, alone)
AND A BONUS "FACT"....
4. My dog knows the night watchman's dog and she has ALL the info. I sent this to Steven almost 2 years ago, it still stands. DOGS DON'T LIE. Ask Steven, he KNOWS.
I can't believe you are saying this! If you get a car like the list of accouterments suggests, you won't be able to handle all of it as it's issued and you're talking about modifying it? What about the warranty that you blow away with any of the above????? Enjoy the car and don't screw up a nice, well engineered car.
I know it seems odd to many... I've modified every car I've ever had... prolly just tune, intake and exhaust while in warranty... it doesn't void warranty, the dealer has to prove the mods caused the problem... think the law changed around 2004 or something...
if its a 911 turbo....that too will get modded within just a month or so...
I know it seems odd to many... I've modified every car I've ever had... prolly just tune, intake and exhaust while in warranty... it doesn't void warranty, the dealer has to prove the mods caused the problem... think the law changed around 2004 or something...
if its a 911 turbo....that too will get modded within just a month or so...
3,118lbs!?
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-18-2018 at 06:52 AM.
4. My dog knows the night watchman's dog and she has ALL the info. I sent this to Steven almost 2 years ago, it still stands. DOGS DON'T LIE. Ask Steven, he KNOWS.
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NOBODY can sell 33,000 cars priced over $100K in one year - NOBODY. If GM wants to retain its market share, it has to price the car close to what the C7 is selling for now. Any other argument is simply not observing the inability of the target market to buy such an expensive car.
An alternative way of looking at this is: they do not plan on a sales model of 33,000 cars. The ME is, as many have conceptualized, an additional model. The mere fact that they can build it on the same line, via skillet use, is cream. That appreciably reduces the cost but the added goods that have been seen on CAD drawings, is expensive.
Why would they want to is a better question. Ford is not making a DIME on the Ford GT. Ford is not even BUILDING the Ford GT - a Canadian company, Multi-Matic is building them for Ford. The Ford GT was a limited edition marketing exercise to promote the Eco-Boost V-6 and win LeMans. Period. The guy who pushed the idea at Ford, Raj Nair, did such a great job on that business case, he got fired.
For GM to make money on a new model car, you need sales volume. Corvette currently is the King Kong of the sports car world in sales volume, in that it holds over 50% of the US market for sports cars. If GM built the Ford GT, in Bowling Green, they could complete the entire planned production run IN ONE WEEK, and close the plant down for the rest of the year. Does that make ANY sense ? NO !!!
NOBODY can sell 33,000 cars priced over $100K in one year - NOBODY. If GM wants to retain its market share, it has to price the car close to what the C7 is selling for now. Any other argument is simply not observing the inability of the target market to buy such an expensive car.
In addition, it makes no sense to in-source a limited production car (less than 3000 units/year) in a dedicated plant like GM Bowling Green. (If you don't believe me, ask the Honda guys how building the NSX is working out for them.) If they wanted to do a Zora super-duper car, the logical approach would be to outsource it to someone like Multi-Matic or Dallara. They are NOT doing so. Cognito Ergo Zoom - they are building the ME C8 just like the C7 in the same plant with the same workers, so the price will be (about) the same. Nothing else closes the business case.
I absolutely hate it when a member makes a post with facts and logic to back it up...
Of course we are talking MSRP. If there is an ME vette with an updated LT1 that costs over 100K, I'll be buying one at a discount in later years after getting tired of my C7
....Common sense will prevail that in 2021 or 2022 there will be a C8 front engined Corvette that is a heavily revised FE C7. That is pure logic.
I agree, IMO the ME is not a C8 but rather a higher performing platform with more advanced everything targeting Euro mid engines. The widely stated rumor that ME and C7's will be produced at the same time for 2-3 years pretty much guarantees that new buyers would choose ME if it were priced a mere $10k more...no business case here for continued FE production. I still believe the best business case is C8 FE platform replacing C7 generation and selling at comparable MSRP. The forthcoming advanced performance ME platform "Zora" priced $10-15k above C7 ZR1 MSRP.
Something to consider, WEC discontinuing LMP1 class and replacing with new class "based" on manufacturer hypercars equipped with hybrid power units, AWD, etc. This may be "convenient" timing for GM to race new ME platform across the pond in WEC series in revamped top class. As I watched 24 Hours Lemans over weekend an announcer claimed 2018 would be the last 24 Hours of Lemans for the C7 with rumored new ME from GM would taking its place 2019. Although I can't see his timing being 100% accurate it supports talk of change at Corvette Racing coming over next 2 years. GM supports 2 classes stateside in IMSA, DPi with Cadillac and GTLM with Corvette. View Doug Fehan's comments in link immediately below;
They would be leaving to much on the plate....
They could charge between 10 and 15k more then that,
and we will still run in herds to go buy them.
65-69k
will buy a base corvette mid engin coupe ,just like the one we saw in that perfectly staged video by autoguide in the country side.
I absolutely hate it when a member makes a post with facts and logic to back it up...
This place seems to attract guys that dip their toe in the water with pronouncements from the mountain top....not backed by any facts or silly stuff like that. Then, when you point out FACTS, they go back to basement and scream for meatloaf.
For the 1000th time . . . Those who know, don't talk - and those who talk, don't know. We go through this every time a new generation of Corvette is on the horizon. All will be revealed in the fullness of time, and then (and only then) will we know. There is nothing to be gained in idle speculation until then.
What a bunch of great posts by everyone. I just think the price will be 100k as GM really wants to take the Corvette to the super car level. Phasing out the C7 over the next couple of years so everyone gets used to the high priced Zora models.
It makes sense but does suck for the 65k car guys. I might be wrong but well have to see.
Good luck to anyone getting one. Cant wait to see some on the roads !!!!!
The forthcoming advanced performance ME platform "Zora" priced $10-15k above C7 ZR1 MSRP.
I can't see a price that high for a Chevrolet...unless it was truly "exotic" (something GM isn't known for).
Originally Posted by jimmyb
This place seems to attract guys that dip their toe in the water with pronouncements from the mountain top....not backed by any facts or silly stuff like that. Then, when you point out FACTS, they go back to basement and scream for meatloaf.
I agree, IMO the ME is not a C8 but rather a higher performing platform with more advanced everything targeting Euro mid engines. The widely stated rumor that ME and C7's will be produced at the same time for 2-3 years pretty much guarantees that new buyers would choose ME if it were priced a mere $10k more...no business case here for continued FE production. I still believe the best business case is C8 FE platform replacing C7 generation and selling at comparable MSRP. The forthcoming advanced performance ME platform "Zora" priced $10-15k above C7 ZR1 MSRP.
Something to consider, WEC discontinuing LMP1 class and replacing with new class "based" on manufacturer hypercars equipped with hybrid power units, AWD, etc. This may be "convenient" timing for GM to race new ME platform across the pond in WEC series in revamped top class. As I watched 24 Hours Lemans over weekend an announcer claimed 2018 would be the last 24 Hours of Lemans for the C7 with rumored new ME from GM would taking its place 2019. Although I can't see his timing being 100% accurate it supports talk of change at Corvette Racing coming over next 2 years. GM supports 2 classes stateside in IMSA, DPi with Cadillac and GTLM with Corvette. View Doug Fehan's comments in link immediately below;
A hybrid mid-engine Corvette likely wouldn’t arrive for another 7-9 years if the mid-engine Corvette follows the C7’s timeline:
Year 2019: LT1-powered Stingray and Stingray hardtop convertible are available
2020: Z06 is introduced with the 4.6L TT engine, and the C8.R or mid-engine Corvette endurance racecar debuts alongside it
2021: paint options change, many issues fixed, LT1 replacement could be introduced
2022: Grand Sport is Introduced with the LT1’s replacement (DOHC N/A V8) and the Z06’s body, suspension brakes, etc.
2023: paint and option changes
2024: ZR1 debuts with the 5.4L TT V8
2025: refer to 2023
2026: When I think the hybrid will be available
2027: refer to 2025
2028 final year of the first mid-engine generation or C8, whatever it’s called
The next GTLM/GTE-PRO Corvette will use a mid-engine layout. There’s no way they can win in those classes now with a front-engine layout, other than by making the winning strategy calls. If there’s a front-engine C8, it would likely compete in GTD and other series that GTD cars are eligible for, including WEC as a GTE car. The potential WEC hybrid or Hypercar class would essentially be the Aston Martin Valkyrie AMR Pro vs the Mercedes-AMG Project 1 vs the McLaren Senna GTR vs Porsche’s 918 successor. A hybrid mid-engine Corvette would be humiliated in that class. I think expanding to GTD and full-time GTE is Corvette Racing’s next move. Competing in a class like LMP1 shouldn’t be considered until that happens, in my opinion.
A hybrid mid-engine Corvette likely wouldn’t arrive for another 7-9 years if the mid-engine Corvette follows the C7’s timeline:
Year 2019: LT1-powered Stingray and Stingray hardtop convertible are available
2020: Z06 is introduced with the 4.6L TT engine, and the C8.R or mid-engine Corvette endurance racecar debuts alongside it
2021: paint options change, many issues fixed, LT1 replacement could be introduced
2022: Grand Sport is Introduced with the LT1’s replacement (DOHC N/A V8) and the Z06’s body, suspension brakes, etc.
2023: paint and option changes
2024: ZR1 debuts with the 5.4L TT V8
2025: refer to 2023
2026: When I think the hybrid will be available
2027: refer to 2025
2028 final year of the first mid-engine generation or C8, whatever it’s called
The next GTLM/GTE-PRO Corvette will use a mid-engine layout. There’s no way they can win in those classes now with a front-engine layout, other than by making the winning strategy calls. If there’s a front-engine C8, it would likely compete in GTD and other series that GTD cars are eligible for, including WEC as a GTE car. The potential WEC hybrid or Hypercar class would essentially be the Aston Martin Valkyrie AMR Pro vs the Mercedes-AMG Project 1 vs the McLaren Senna GTR vs Porsche’s 918 successor. A hybrid mid-engine Corvette would be humiliated in that class. I think expanding to GTD and full-time GTE is Corvette Racing’s next move. Competing in a class like LMP1 shouldn’t be considered until that happens, in my opinion.
that 8-9 year run does make sense... gonna be exciting ...!!! got my popcorn ready..
06-18-2018, 12:55 AM
