What will the C8 Front Engine Generation Corvette entail ?
06-18-2018, 10:34 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
06-19-2018, 09:40 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
Ironically, the ME nailing it seals that fate! ;)
The dinosaur will just go extinct.
Depends!
(The trained Caddy and Camaro to hold that position.)
I like common sense over Rumors that sell cars!
Depends!
(The trained Caddy and Camaro to hold that position.)
I like common sense over Rumors that sell cars!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-19-2018 at 09:46 AM.
06-19-2018, 09:45 AM
#25
06-19-2018, 10:21 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
The exclusive images you see here, derived from hours spent secretly poring over the sheetmetal of two seventh-generation Corvettes, show the next step in the supercar's iconic evolution. These aren't photos, but this is absolutely the next-generation Chevy Corvette in ZR1 trim. GM so doesn't want you to see these.
These renderings were derived from hours this weekend I (and our designer) spent in secret, poring over the completely uncamouflaged "sheetmetal" of two versions of the next-gen Corvette. With limited time, we decided to, rather than show you the first one, a base level Corvette, we focused our rendering efforts instead on the high-performance ZR1 trim level.
https://jalopnik.com/5858683/exclusi...chevy-corvette
06-19-2018, 10:23 AM
#27
Team Owner
This is the only part of the statement, that I feel is misplaced. The survival of the front engine car does not rely on the mid-engine. The mid-engine is only surfacing because 5 yrs of Stingray sales have allowed that push forward. The next front engine car at 55k, out the dealer door, will shore up the ME even further.
The Midengine Corvette, the ZR1, etc, were all evolutions of the fact the C7, as a base front engine platform, has sold well enough and has projections high enough to allow expansion/investment by GM. The Midengines existence sits upon the shoulders of the Front Engine cars established base.
Think: ACR sales couldn't keep the viper alive, it's base needed to do that, and there was little to no base. The meat and potatoes of the Corvette brand is Stingray, look at the production numbers (see bottom). The "base" is Stingray then gets heavily shored up by the GS. The Z06 and GS combine to outsell the Stingray using a shared investment with body/brakes/etc, but utilizing the core architecture of Stingray. These combined sales then allowed ZR1 and potentially one more naturally aspirated track focused car to come. The more you use the parts bin to create new, exciting models, the bigger the profit margin becomes....ask Porsche.
You take away the front-engine car, you deconstruct the entire thing which sells WELL and at a pricetag many, many can palette. You can get in a well equipped Stingray or GS for 55k-65k out the door after markdowns.
The mid-engine is BUILT upon the core architecture of the C7 platform, using much of the core chassis. The front engine/mid engine variation is possible, due to the modular design of the core. The "C7" is essentially a platform that was designed starting at the firewall, then ending toward the rear of the passenger compartment. From there, "front engine, rwd" architecture and body was designed into it. The Mid-engine starts with that same core, then from there, "mid-engine, rwd" and body, is designed into it, making the upcoming car. C8 Front engine, rwd will follow, doing the same...in a cycle.
GM will not walk away from the under 60k, out the door, price of entry...it would be suicide, it would reduce the base foundation ownership size and create a huge gap in the used market.
People need to get away from thinking "mid engine" versus "front engine" because they are not individual entities, they are alterations of the core Corvette platform...same as Z06 to Stingray, just slightly more evolved and complex.
2017 production numbers
Stingray Coupe 11,253 34.30%
Stingray Convertible 2,298 7.00%
Grand Sport Coupe 9,912 30.20%
Grand Sport Convertible 2,046 6.20%
Z06 Coupe 6,197 18.90%
Z06 Convertible 1,076 3.30%
Totals: 32,782 100%
The Midengine Corvette, the ZR1, etc, were all evolutions of the fact the C7, as a base front engine platform, has sold well enough and has projections high enough to allow expansion/investment by GM. The Midengines existence sits upon the shoulders of the Front Engine cars established base.
Think: ACR sales couldn't keep the viper alive, it's base needed to do that, and there was little to no base. The meat and potatoes of the Corvette brand is Stingray, look at the production numbers (see bottom). The "base" is Stingray then gets heavily shored up by the GS. The Z06 and GS combine to outsell the Stingray using a shared investment with body/brakes/etc, but utilizing the core architecture of Stingray. These combined sales then allowed ZR1 and potentially one more naturally aspirated track focused car to come. The more you use the parts bin to create new, exciting models, the bigger the profit margin becomes....ask Porsche.
You take away the front-engine car, you deconstruct the entire thing which sells WELL and at a pricetag many, many can palette. You can get in a well equipped Stingray or GS for 55k-65k out the door after markdowns.
The mid-engine is BUILT upon the core architecture of the C7 platform, using much of the core chassis. The front engine/mid engine variation is possible, due to the modular design of the core. The "C7" is essentially a platform that was designed starting at the firewall, then ending toward the rear of the passenger compartment. From there, "front engine, rwd" architecture and body was designed into it. The Mid-engine starts with that same core, then from there, "mid-engine, rwd" and body, is designed into it, making the upcoming car. C8 Front engine, rwd will follow, doing the same...in a cycle.
GM will not walk away from the under 60k, out the door, price of entry...it would be suicide, it would reduce the base foundation ownership size and create a huge gap in the used market.
People need to get away from thinking "mid engine" versus "front engine" because they are not individual entities, they are alterations of the core Corvette platform...same as Z06 to Stingray, just slightly more evolved and complex.
2017 production numbers
Stingray Coupe 11,253 34.30%
Stingray Convertible 2,298 7.00%
Grand Sport Coupe 9,912 30.20%
Grand Sport Convertible 2,046 6.20%
Z06 Coupe 6,197 18.90%
Z06 Convertible 1,076 3.30%
Totals: 32,782 100%
The mid engine is all new except for possibly a few fasteners here and there. Even though the base LT1 engine appears to be a carry over, many of the engine's components are new for the mid-engine. Every thing else is new for the mid engine Corvette.
Let's look at some pricing increases(with absolutely no changes in the cars design or construction).
2006 C6....
Coupe...………………….$43,690
Convertible...…………$51,390
Z06...……………………$64,890
2007 C6(and no changes in components to any degree).
Coupe...……………..$44,250(+ 1.28%)
Convertible...……..$52,590(+ 2.53%)
Z06...…………………$69,175(+ 6.60%)
6.6% increase in price for the Z06 which had no changes in either design or construction from the year before.
The 2006 to 2007 Z06 had a $4,285 increase in price, and you guys believe that the mid-engine will be less than a 10% increase in price(~$5,000) over a C7. 20% + for an entirely new design car is very reasonable for an increase in price. Wouldn't surprise me if the price increases 40%, to around $80,000 for the base model mid engine.
In 2009, GM added the ZR1 to the mix and it was basically a Z06 with a smaller engine that was based on the existing LS3 engine, with a $8,000 supercharger and CCB for another $8,000(neither of which reflects GM's cost to purchase from a vender) and a carbon fiber hood and roof.
2009 Z06...….$73,925($9,035 increase from 2006).
2009 ZR1.....$105,000. A price difference of $31,075 from the Z06.
Last edited by JoesC5; 06-19-2018 at 10:27 AM.
06-19-2018, 11:07 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Joe, the base price of the 2013 C6 Corvette was $49,600 + $975.00 DFC = $50,575.00. The current base price for the 2019 Stingray is $55,495.00 + $1,095.00 DFC = $56,590.00. We still have two or three years left on the C7 FE generation so theoretically the base price could end up at 58k - 60k. It's more accurate to estimate the base price of the incoming C8 FE from the last year base of the C7. I've always thought that the C8 FE base would start around 65K if you look at the prior generation price increases. Both you, I, and KITT are starting the ME base at around 80K to 90K. KITT's post #15 pricing analysis above looks to me to be spot on with the ME topping out at 175K and the Base ME topping out at 130K.
Last edited by skank; 06-19-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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06-19-2018, 12:24 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
I think all sides are in agreement that there will be a 2020 model year corvette and that it will debut summer 2019.
I think all sides also agree that we will be getting
an 8th generation of this corvette.
I think all sides agree that ,like every generation change ...the price hike will be within a reasonable range from the old model.
Going a year without a 60k $ corvette is not an option.
We seem to differ on whether THAT model is the mid engine car ( we have CAD drawings,numerous picture,numerous videos....some in our own towns!!)
I for one believe that is the C8...
At this point ,from what I’m reading,we can even say that the majority on this forum believe that’s the car.
We have seen coupe and convertible models,
Smaller and larger wheel models...
Videos and pictures of the cars interaction in everyday life.
And that majority is growing with every sighting and every leak ,as the weeks go on.
As the hype builds up.
I think all sides also agree that we will be getting
an 8th generation of this corvette.
I think all sides agree that ,like every generation change ...the price hike will be within a reasonable range from the old model.
Going a year without a 60k $ corvette is not an option.
We seem to differ on whether THAT model is the mid engine car ( we have CAD drawings,numerous picture,numerous videos....some in our own towns!!)
I for one believe that is the C8...
At this point ,from what I’m reading,we can even say that the majority on this forum believe that’s the car.
We have seen coupe and convertible models,
Smaller and larger wheel models...
Videos and pictures of the cars interaction in everyday life.
And that majority is growing with every sighting and every leak ,as the weeks go on.
As the hype builds up.
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gurneyeagle (06-19-2018)
06-19-2018, 01:19 PM
#30
I think all sides are in agreement that there will be a 2020 model year corvette and that it will debut summer 2019.
I think all sides also agree that we will be getting
an 8th generation of this corvette.
I think all sides agree that ,like every generation change ...the price hike will be within a reasonable range from the old model.
Going a year without a 60k $ corvette is not an option.
We seem to differ on whether THAT model is the mid engine car ( we have CAD drawings,numerous picture,numerous videos....some in our own towns!!)
I for one believe that is the C8...
At this point ,from what I’m reading,we can even say that the majority on this forum believe that’s the car.
We have seen coupe and convertible models,
Smaller and larger wheel models...
Videos and pictures of the cars interaction in everyday life.
And that majority is growing with every sighting and every leak ,as the weeks go on.
As the hype builds up.
I think all sides also agree that we will be getting
an 8th generation of this corvette.
I think all sides agree that ,like every generation change ...the price hike will be within a reasonable range from the old model.
Going a year without a 60k $ corvette is not an option.
We seem to differ on whether THAT model is the mid engine car ( we have CAD drawings,numerous picture,numerous videos....some in our own towns!!)
I for one believe that is the C8...
At this point ,from what I’m reading,we can even say that the majority on this forum believe that’s the car.
We have seen coupe and convertible models,
Smaller and larger wheel models...
Videos and pictures of the cars interaction in everyday life.
And that majority is growing with every sighting and every leak ,as the weeks go on.
As the hype builds up.
And yet people continue to be in complete denial that the car is making a revolutionary change to ME design. Sorry, there will be no new FE Corvette unless GM decides to create an entire line of Corvette branded cars and SUVs.
You gotta let go fellas...…
You gotta let go fellas...…
Last edited by gurneyeagle; 06-20-2018 at 07:46 AM.
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LIStingray (06-20-2018)
06-19-2018, 03:23 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
06-19-2018, 03:48 PM
#32
Dream on my friend if it makes you feel better.
Nice selfie BTW.
Last edited by gurneyeagle; 06-20-2018 at 07:45 AM.
06-19-2018, 07:26 PM
#33
I'm sure GM has blackballed Jalopnik after the C7 leak back in 11/14/2011. They made up that **** and bull story about them looking at the car than drawing it up. There is no way a journalist and some Jalopnik employed designer could draw that accurate 3D rendering up in that time nor would they have the talent to do so. They went ahead and published that obvious stolen CAD rendering much to GM's consternation. Here is a couple of paragraphs from that article.
The exclusive images you see here, derived from hours spent secretly poring over the sheetmetal of two seventh-generation Corvettes, show the next step in the supercar's iconic evolution. These aren't photos, but this is absolutely the next-generation Chevy Corvette in ZR1 trim. GM so doesn't want you to see these.
These renderings were derived from hours this weekend I (and our designer) spent in secret, poring over the completely uncamouflaged "sheetmetal" of two versions of the next-gen Corvette. With limited time, we decided to, rather than show you the first one, a base level Corvette, we focused our rendering efforts instead on the high-performance ZR1 trim level.
https://jalopnik.com/5858683/exclusi...chevy-corvette
The exclusive images you see here, derived from hours spent secretly poring over the sheetmetal of two seventh-generation Corvettes, show the next step in the supercar's iconic evolution. These aren't photos, but this is absolutely the next-generation Chevy Corvette in ZR1 trim. GM so doesn't want you to see these.
These renderings were derived from hours this weekend I (and our designer) spent in secret, poring over the completely uncamouflaged "sheetmetal" of two versions of the next-gen Corvette. With limited time, we decided to, rather than show you the first one, a base level Corvette, we focused our rendering efforts instead on the high-performance ZR1 trim level.
https://jalopnik.com/5858683/exclusi...chevy-corvette
06-19-2018, 08:29 PM
#34
Drifting
Agree, I just don't see GM running both cars simultaneously. Demand for a moderately priced ME will far outstrip available capacity. There is no reason to keep running the C7 for a couple of years per the earlier rumors and speculation.
06-19-2018, 10:13 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
Yet another amusing FE C8 thread?
Prepare to be disappointed as you'll just have to settle for a $65k kick butt base ME Vette.
Prepare to be disappointed as you'll just have to settle for a $65k kick butt base ME Vette.
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VETTE-NV (06-24-2018)
06-19-2018, 11:58 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
If GM is developing anything else in the Corvette line it will be expansion of the brand ala Porsche SUVs
06-20-2018, 06:04 AM
#38
Race Director
Two seat sports car market along with four door sedan market is shrinking.
No front engine c8 model...change is hard for many to accept. It’s the c7 change from round taillights all over again.....you d have thought GM had committed a capital offense the way some guys carried on..(now most love the c7 )
That said the c8 will be a HUGE sales success. Corvette is an American icon and With the new generation of corvette ...there will be..
Lots of left over c7 s at huge discounts (25%) will be the front engine corvettes swan song as it is for each ending generation before it.
If you Really only want a front engine corvette.....simple.... just buy one of the leftovers at an attractive price as the c8 rear mid engine releases.
Nothing wrong with doing that.
The new rear mid engine corvette will wow the press and new owners..
The performance will improve as it does with most new generation corvettes...
That’s part of the iconic nature of the brand...
Each new generation is slightly better than the last..
No front engine c8 model...change is hard for many to accept. It’s the c7 change from round taillights all over again.....you d have thought GM had committed a capital offense the way some guys carried on..(now most love the c7 )
That said the c8 will be a HUGE sales success. Corvette is an American icon and With the new generation of corvette ...there will be..
Lots of left over c7 s at huge discounts (25%) will be the front engine corvettes swan song as it is for each ending generation before it.
If you Really only want a front engine corvette.....simple.... just buy one of the leftovers at an attractive price as the c8 rear mid engine releases.
Nothing wrong with doing that.
The new rear mid engine corvette will wow the press and new owners..
The performance will improve as it does with most new generation corvettes...
That’s part of the iconic nature of the brand...
Each new generation is slightly better than the last..
Last edited by JerriVette; 06-20-2018 at 06:10 AM.
06-20-2018, 06:22 AM
#39
Le Mans Master
The pot is better in Oregon Skank! ;)
Joe, the base price of the 2013 C6 Corvette was $49,600 + $975.00 DFC = $50,575.00. The current base price for the 2019 Stingray is $55,495.00 + $1,095.00 DFC = $56,590.00. We still have two or three years left on the C7 FE generation so theoretically the base price could end up at 58k - 60k. It's more accurate to estimate the base price of the incoming C8 FE from the last year base of the C7. I've always thought that the C8 FE base would start around 65K if you look at the prior generation price increases. Both you, I, and KITT are starting the ME base at around 80K to 90K. KITT's post #15 pricing analysis above looks to me to be spot on with the ME topping out at 175K and the Base ME topping out at 130K.
If GM keeps it up the 3,200lb used older FE market should absolutely stall C7 sales.
GM needs to navigate out of the dead end they've created.
The Old Snake Oil!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 06-20-2018 at 06:56 AM.
06-20-2018, 07:43 AM
#40
Melting Slicks
That is the only part of the equation I think is wrong. GM could make in excess of 40,000 ME per year at Bowling Green - We haven't seen close to that demand for C7's since 2015, and no mid-engine car since the 1985 Pontiac Fiero has sold more than 40,000 units per year - the Toyota MR2's best year of 1985 was 32,000 units. The Fiero was a moderately priced ME car, the C8 at an average MSRP sales price of $80k (same as the current C7 - which is probably low) is not moderately priced, so unless the car can be as broad in appeal as the C7, it is tough to see 40,000 unit sales per year.
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