Design Cue Questions
#1
Instructor
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Design Cue Questions
Do you think the recently named design-guru has changed anything on the C8?
Wasn't the design locked before he came?
Does the new Camaro, Colorado, Blazer design have anything to do with the Corvette?
Are these cars completely non-Welburn designs?
Do we have any info on when exactly was the C8 design locked (point of no return)?
We understand that the design team is essentially the same as on the C7, but... could the recently unveiled Chevrolet cars give us any hint on the Corvette design language?
Any answer is appreciated. Thank you.
Wasn't the design locked before he came?
Does the new Camaro, Colorado, Blazer design have anything to do with the Corvette?
Are these cars completely non-Welburn designs?
Do we have any info on when exactly was the C8 design locked (point of no return)?
We understand that the design team is essentially the same as on the C7, but... could the recently unveiled Chevrolet cars give us any hint on the Corvette design language?
Any answer is appreciated. Thank you.
#2
Safety Car
I think you are referring to Michael Simcoe replacing the last year retired Ed Welburn as the GM Vice Presdient for Global Design. Bet he will be, beaming, on stage at the ME’s reveal.
Simcoe was quoted as saying in one of his first interviews that he was aware that his career would be known for the next generation Corvette, that he was already feeling some pressure on how well it will be received.
At the same time, vehicles’ appearances are finalized (excepted last minute aero adjustments such as for our Corvettes) years before they go into production, so perhaps Simcoe could get an emblem design, a taillight component, or a front fender vent design changed to reflect his input, but probably nothing bigger than that.
Here, thanks to Keith Cornett, is that interview:
Originally Posted by CorvetteBlogger
Simcoe acknowledged the “emotional pressure” of designing an icon but also at the same time pointed out the excitement of being involved.
“Being part of a Corvette design is very exciting for everyone involved,” he said, “and there certainly will be a next generation Corvette at some point.”
Of course, he knows this isn’t a Camry – everyone will be looking at – and judging – their final C8 Corvette product.
“You’re dealing with an icon that’s been successful, consistently successful, and you don’t want to be the one who blew that,” Simcoe admitted.
“Being part of a Corvette design is very exciting for everyone involved,” he said, “and there certainly will be a next generation Corvette at some point.”
Of course, he knows this isn’t a Camry – everyone will be looking at – and judging – their final C8 Corvette product.
“You’re dealing with an icon that’s been successful, consistently successful, and you don’t want to be the one who blew that,” Simcoe admitted.
Last edited by elegant; 06-22-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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#4
I agree! I mean the C7 is hands down the best looking Corvette design since the C2 but I hope they do much better too.
Last edited by ColoradoGS; 08-03-2018 at 06:49 PM.
#5
Burning Brakes
Based on the leaked bumpers and CAD drawings, as well as spy photos of the interior, the upcoming Corvette does not appear to reflect the design language of the latest Chevrolets.
I hope to see a recurring theme in the design of the car. If you look inside and around any new Lamborghini, you’ll notice hexagons EVERYWHERE: grille mesh grille opening, headlight housings and shape, taillight housings and shape, exhaust tips, plastic trim(on a lambo???), seat inserts, a/c vents, dash/infotainment screen backgrounds at all times, most buttons, door handles.... I could go on and on, but you get the point.
Corvette needs a theme like that, in my opinion, to make it unique. Let’s just hope that if a theme like that is present in the car, it isn’t the squircle...
I hope to see a recurring theme in the design of the car. If you look inside and around any new Lamborghini, you’ll notice hexagons EVERYWHERE: grille mesh grille opening, headlight housings and shape, taillight housings and shape, exhaust tips, plastic trim(on a lambo???), seat inserts, a/c vents, dash/infotainment screen backgrounds at all times, most buttons, door handles.... I could go on and on, but you get the point.
#6
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It would be very hard to do better than the C7
By leaps and bounds the most successful, attractive Vette since the early C3. A gorgeous car that truly is the first one to deserve the name "Stingray" in generations.
#7
You shouldn't be a Corvette owner to spot the difference in a coupe and Z06 at a distance. I hope a better designed rear that could define the car from long range as well as up close.Being a mid engine car with big cooling and exhaust ducts there are great possibilities.
Last edited by warhawkmcdaniel; 08-03-2018 at 08:44 PM.
#8
A history of cheap materials on the interiors and complaints of the rear view leaves a lot of room.Corvette has improved the interior but I would pay more for better materials inside to move up in class with better cars.The first reaction to an interior shouldn't be cheap plastic.
You shouldn't be a Corvette owner to spot the difference in a coupe and Z06 at a distance. I hope a better designed rear that could define the car from long range as well as up close.Being a mid engine car with big cooling and exhaust ducts there are great possibilities.
You shouldn't be a Corvette owner to spot the difference in a coupe and Z06 at a distance. I hope a better designed rear that could define the car from long range as well as up close.Being a mid engine car with big cooling and exhaust ducts there are great possibilities.
Unfortunately for those of us who would love better quality interior and be glad to pay for the upgrades we will be stuck with less quality of switch gear and Nav / Entertainment system due to GM trying to keep cost down to please the entry level Corvette buyer.
All we will be able to due is purchase a Comp seat upgrades and upgraded leather.
But the rest of the gauges and Nav / Entertainment system and switch gear will be the same in the top of line 150k C8 Zr1 as is in the entry level 65k Vett.
GM biggest issue is the issue of Corvette buyers who demand world class performance but on a budget that won't allow for world class material.
So GM has no choice but to cut corners on the interior trim and plastics and switchs.
There are many of us who hope that GM will improve the interior quality of the c7 and move up class with the C8 and offer a high quality car with latest tech and high quality material and charge for the product that they produce.
I sure hope we get an improvement on interior quality similar to the level of improvement from the horrible C6 interior to the much improved best ever C7 interior.
Now if GM take a similar upgrade from C7 to C8 I think most of us will be please to see and pay for a Porsche / Audi level of quality interior.
Last edited by vetteman41960; 08-03-2018 at 10:34 PM.
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#9
Safety Car
Above design was the initial C7 sketch (more below) — which was done four years before the C7 was produced.
Do you think the recently named design-guru has changed anything on the C8?
Wasn't the design locked before he came?
Are these cars completely non-Welburn designs?
Do we have any info on when exactly was the C8 design locked (point of no return)?
Any answer is appreciated. Thank you.
Wasn't the design locked before he came?
Are these cars completely non-Welburn designs?
Do we have any info on when exactly was the C8 design locked (point of no return)?
Any answer is appreciated. Thank you.
Given that, Michael Simcoe’s could have final say in the very minor things. I am not demeaning his abilities in the slightest, nor his influence, just that in the automotive field almost all visual designs are locked in long before a car’s production manufacturing starts, so Simcoe’s influence will be on such things as the front fender badges/design, the front and rear emblems, the font and size of the Corvette letters on the rear fascia and similar items. I read and re-read his quotes above, but in all due deference, while he could well blamed by all who do not like the ME’s design, its design truly pre-dates him. And the reverse is true, that all those that love the design could well heap praise on Michael Simcoe, but it should instead be attributed to Ed Welburn and the rest of the design team who worked under Ed on the ME’s exterior design.
And all the above need to be considered in terms of fact that no design of a Corvette comes from one person. Yes, the initial sketch will be one person’s, but that sketch’s transformation to the final product gets modified by the entire design team, and also very influenced on the Corvette, by the aero and engineering teams input — for that also must go into the Corvette to make it successful. As to who the initial designer of the ME is, we do not know, but if I had to bet, I would again bet that Hwasup Lee, who did the initial top-of-post design on the C7 and also worked on the C7 ZR1, could have had a major hand in the ME’s design— in not just as one of its high quality team members.
Other who are clearly skilled and who have significantly contributed to the ME’s exterior design include Tom Peters and Kirk Bennion. As for its interior design, that is under the leader ship of Ryan Vaughan.
Hope some of this is useful.
Last edited by elegant; 08-03-2018 at 11:18 PM.
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#10
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Elegant, your above post got me thinking Mr Lee’s design shown may be resurrected in part to the ME as you suggested he still contributes to Corvette Design as late as with the C7 ZR1.
Elegant: “As to who the initial designer of the ME is, we do not know, but if I had to bet, I would again bet that Hwasup Lee, who did the initial top-of-post design on the C7 and also worked on the C7 ZR1, could have had a major hand in the ME’s design— in not just as one of its high quality team members.”
What if the rear facia actually looks very similar to his design, updated to reflect new taillight design as FVS illustrates. Subtle, but dramatic difference IMO. One aspect would be that the extended side behind the door on the rear quarter panel would visually be less pronounced. And maybe even suggest a storage compartment behind the engine. Think golf bag (1) with room for another in the frunck.
Easily hidden behind all that foam cladding. But, I can see the possibilities speculating what’s underneath.
Elegant: “As to who the initial designer of the ME is, we do not know, but if I had to bet, I would again bet that Hwasup Lee, who did the initial top-of-post design on the C7 and also worked on the C7 ZR1, could have had a major hand in the ME’s design— in not just as one of its high quality team members.”
What if the rear facia actually looks very similar to his design, updated to reflect new taillight design as FVS illustrates. Subtle, but dramatic difference IMO. One aspect would be that the extended side behind the door on the rear quarter panel would visually be less pronounced. And maybe even suggest a storage compartment behind the engine. Think golf bag (1) with room for another in the frunck.
Easily hidden behind all that foam cladding. But, I can see the possibilities speculating what’s underneath.
Last edited by CRABBYJ; 08-04-2018 at 08:04 AM.
#11
Safety Car
Intersting thought. Maybe space for one golf bag as you suggested...
The first gen NSX had a small stoppage area behind the motor. However, when I first saw it, I laughed, for it one could have perhaps fit two of large paper grocery sacks in it, though to do so, might have involved squishing the groceries a tad.
As a visual and center of mass devotee, I would hope that the rear does not stick out an extra 8” just for a golf bag or grocery sacks. I hope instead that the long tail on the ME IVERS, as noted by Bikerjulio re the Colorado picture of all the license plate needing to be bent backwards at roughly a 40 degree angle, is just to accommodate the extra-thick, camo padding in the rear fascia, for IMO the Corvette ME would look far better and perform better without an NSX-extended-length, rear tail.
So to re-examine the golf bag possibility, I just went back to two CAD drawings, and while I am far from a CAD-reading specialist, I do not think they would allow enough side to side width to accomodate a golf bag. Perhaps someone who is a CAD specialist, could re-look at them and determine for sure?
The first gen NSX had a small stoppage area behind the motor. However, when I first saw it, I laughed, for it one could have perhaps fit two of large paper grocery sacks in it, though to do so, might have involved squishing the groceries a tad.
As a visual and center of mass devotee, I would hope that the rear does not stick out an extra 8” just for a golf bag or grocery sacks. I hope instead that the long tail on the ME IVERS, as noted by Bikerjulio re the Colorado picture of all the license plate needing to be bent backwards at roughly a 40 degree angle, is just to accommodate the extra-thick, camo padding in the rear fascia, for IMO the Corvette ME would look far better and perform better without an NSX-extended-length, rear tail.
So to re-examine the golf bag possibility, I just went back to two CAD drawings, and while I am far from a CAD-reading specialist, I do not think they would allow enough side to side width to accomodate a golf bag. Perhaps someone who is a CAD specialist, could re-look at them and determine for sure?
Last edited by elegant; 08-04-2018 at 10:59 AM.
#12
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Based on the leaked bumpers and CAD drawings, as well as spy photos of the interior, the upcoming Corvette does not appear to reflect the design language of the latest Chevrolets.
I hope to see a recurring theme in the design of the car. If you look inside and around any new Lamborghini, you’ll notice hexagons EVERYWHERE: grille mesh grille opening, headlight housings and shape, taillight housings and shape, exhaust tips, plastic trim(on a lambo???), seat inserts, a/c vents, dash/infotainment screen backgrounds at all times, most buttons, door handles.... I could go on and on, but you get the point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ZHl3GERI0
Corvette needs a theme like that, in my opinion, to make it unique. Let’s just hope that if a theme like that is present in the car, it isn’t the squircle...
I hope to see a recurring theme in the design of the car. If you look inside and around any new Lamborghini, you’ll notice hexagons EVERYWHERE: grille mesh grille opening, headlight housings and shape, taillight housings and shape, exhaust tips, plastic trim(on a lambo???), seat inserts, a/c vents, dash/infotainment screen backgrounds at all times, most buttons, door handles.... I could go on and on, but you get the point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ZHl3GERI0
Corvette needs a theme like that, in my opinion, to make it unique. Let’s just hope that if a theme like that is present in the car, it isn’t the squircle...
#13
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ELEGANT: “As a visual and center of mass devotee, I would hope that the rear does not stick out an extra 8” just for a golf bag or grocery sacks.”
Actually, I think that what I see is that the bottom of the rear facia goes IN by ~8” from what is shown by FVS so as to not stick out beyond what appears to be an intergral side to side curved spoiler with thrird center lights. I’ll try to explain. Look at the Camo pic we’re (A) to (B) is an arc defining the spoiler with 4 holes for the center brake light. (C) is the lower corner where the lower piece (D) curves into it. From (D) look up and see the upper center (with straps attached) is on the same plane as the BOTTOM of the license plate which then tilts inward ~10 degrees to be recessed under the center of the spoiler. The center of the spoiler is on the same plane as (D) upper and the bottom of the license plate.
When you then look at the leaked molded red rear facia, (E) lines up on the same plane as (D), license plate BOTTOM, and (G) the center of the spoiler with the third brake lights. Finally look at (F) which appears to show how the bottom ends near or at the wheel well. NOTE, IMO that the molded red rear facia is tilted backward thus giving a false appearance that the bottom sticks out from the center of the spoiler. The curve in those tail lights may be more than we think at this point. Lots of block Camo under that rear end so what do I know.
i could care less about golf bags in the frunk, rear or elsewhere. I play pool thus my cue is in two short pieces..
Actually, I think that what I see is that the bottom of the rear facia goes IN by ~8” from what is shown by FVS so as to not stick out beyond what appears to be an intergral side to side curved spoiler with thrird center lights. I’ll try to explain. Look at the Camo pic we’re (A) to (B) is an arc defining the spoiler with 4 holes for the center brake light. (C) is the lower corner where the lower piece (D) curves into it. From (D) look up and see the upper center (with straps attached) is on the same plane as the BOTTOM of the license plate which then tilts inward ~10 degrees to be recessed under the center of the spoiler. The center of the spoiler is on the same plane as (D) upper and the bottom of the license plate.
When you then look at the leaked molded red rear facia, (E) lines up on the same plane as (D), license plate BOTTOM, and (G) the center of the spoiler with the third brake lights. Finally look at (F) which appears to show how the bottom ends near or at the wheel well. NOTE, IMO that the molded red rear facia is tilted backward thus giving a false appearance that the bottom sticks out from the center of the spoiler. The curve in those tail lights may be more than we think at this point. Lots of block Camo under that rear end so what do I know.
i could care less about golf bags in the frunk, rear or elsewhere. I play pool thus my cue is in two short pieces..
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#15
Safety Car
Good observations. Interesting how the license plate in your picture CRABBY is straight up and down, not bent as we saw on the Colorado picture of about a week ago.
Last edited by elegant; 08-04-2018 at 02:14 PM.
#16
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That bent license plate is so different and contrary to the one I show, maybe deceptive on purpose. Notice also on my Camo ME there is what looks like Camo showing along the bottom of the plate and even other small holes in the camo that can give evidence of how it is underneath. Subject to various interpretations, interesting.
#17
That bent license plate is so different and contrary to the one I show, maybe deceptive on purpose. Notice also on my Camo ME there is what looks like Camo showing along the bottom of the plate and even other small holes in the camo that can give evidence of how it is underneath. Subject to various interpretations, interesting.
If Crabby's is later then the reveal is continuing.............
If Crabby's is earlier then someone is in trouble for allowing it to happen...........
#19
ELEGANT: “As a visual and center of mass devotee, I would hope that the rear does not stick out an extra 8” just for a golf bag or grocery sacks.”
Actually, I think that what I see is that the bottom of the rear facia goes IN by ~8” from what is shown by FVS so as to not stick out beyond what appears to be an intergral side to side curved spoiler with thrird center lights. I’ll try to explain. Look at the Camo pic we’re (A) to (B) is an arc defining the spoiler with 4 holes for the center brake light. (C) is the lower corner where the lower piece (D) curves into it. From (D) look up and see the upper center (with straps attached) is on the same plane as the BOTTOM of the license plate which then tilts inward ~10 degrees to be recessed under the center of the spoiler. The center of the spoiler is on the same plane as (D) upper and the bottom of the license plate.
When you then look at the leaked molded red rear facia, (E) lines up on the same plane as (D), license plate BOTTOM, and (G) the center of the spoiler with the third brake lights. Finally look at (F) which appears to show how the bottom ends near or at the wheel well. NOTE, IMO that the molded red rear facia is tilted backward thus giving a false appearance that the bottom sticks out from the center of the spoiler. The curve in those tail lights may be more than we think at this point. Lots of block Camo under that rear end so what do I know.
i could care less about golf bags in the frunk, rear or elsewhere. I play pool thus my cue is in two short pieces..
Actually, I think that what I see is that the bottom of the rear facia goes IN by ~8” from what is shown by FVS so as to not stick out beyond what appears to be an intergral side to side curved spoiler with thrird center lights. I’ll try to explain. Look at the Camo pic we’re (A) to (B) is an arc defining the spoiler with 4 holes for the center brake light. (C) is the lower corner where the lower piece (D) curves into it. From (D) look up and see the upper center (with straps attached) is on the same plane as the BOTTOM of the license plate which then tilts inward ~10 degrees to be recessed under the center of the spoiler. The center of the spoiler is on the same plane as (D) upper and the bottom of the license plate.
When you then look at the leaked molded red rear facia, (E) lines up on the same plane as (D), license plate BOTTOM, and (G) the center of the spoiler with the third brake lights. Finally look at (F) which appears to show how the bottom ends near or at the wheel well. NOTE, IMO that the molded red rear facia is tilted backward thus giving a false appearance that the bottom sticks out from the center of the spoiler. The curve in those tail lights may be more than we think at this point. Lots of block Camo under that rear end so what do I know.
i could care less about golf bags in the frunk, rear or elsewhere. I play pool thus my cue is in two short pieces..
This CAD tells a lot.
Also see below for the comment C7Pimp made about the center portion of the rear fascia. He said it does bulge out in the middle... My guess/hope is to allow more room for the v12 variant!
FROM C7 Pimp:
I only know as much as I've seen but I fully believe that rear diffuser will make it to production. See previous comment I made on it protruding.
The mating line of the rear fascia to the lower valance is NOT straight across. It's contoured like this (showing exhaust tips from the underside). This is the profile of the rear fascia where it meets the diffuser/lower valance. The lower valance does not line up line-on-line with this:
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 08-04-2018 at 11:13 PM.
#20
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It would be interesting to know the date on Crabby's image as opposed to the latest Colorado picture. Crabby's looks like the padding was left out and is therefore more "real".
If Crabby's is later then the reveal is continuing.............
If Crabby's is earlier then someone is in trouble for allowing it to happen...........
If Crabby's is later then the reveal is continuing.............
If Crabby's is earlier then someone is in trouble for allowing it to happen...........
EDIT: If all this is true, the ME IMO will be the antithesis to the C7 in exterior design as well as mechanical substance.
Last edited by CRABBYJ; 08-05-2018 at 09:34 AM.
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