2020 will be mid engine release, and 2021 will be a new front engine model also?...
07-21-2018, 04:57 PM
#341
Melting Slicks
Business Case is Critical
the Corvette hasn't been successful just because of a price point and performance. It has been considered the Every Man's blue-collar American sports car that competes with exotics, while being somewhat practical and reliable.
An FE Covette would have a different market, from an ME Corvette. Just as Ferrari's F12 and 488.
As I have proven in the past, there is no proof anywhere, that there is a market for 30k+ ME Corvettes a year in the U.S.
An FE Covette would have a different market, from an ME Corvette. Just as Ferrari's F12 and 488.
As I have proven in the past, there is no proof anywhere, that there is a market for 30k+ ME Corvettes a year in the U.S.
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
Last edited by PCMIII; 07-21-2018 at 05:25 PM.
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Mikec7z (07-21-2018)
07-21-2018, 07:20 PM
#342
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
The 2020 ME will be built on the same chassis as the C7. Therefore, the Bowling Green assembly line can accommodate a ME and FE simultaneously.
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
I dont even know, does a camaro have fuel tanks on each side like a vette does? I doubt it. Could be wrong.
07-21-2018, 08:00 PM
#343
Race Director
The staggering price points of the Ferrari models allow for such a low unit volume that a front and rear mid engine model can co exist.
i don’t believe corvette can be segmented into the same identical catorgories and survive.
looking at the spy shots of the vehicle testing it clearly looks to many of us as a standard first year model.
the hyper pricepoint being discussed or even one starting at 70 is in my opinion inaccurate.
five grand more msrp than today’s z511LT would be my best guess...and you can if the vehicle comes standard with a dct add the price of a torque converter automatic...to the additional five above today’s z51 and that’s just if the standard vehicle is a z51 model...
it could with no th no heavy duty equipment just be five grand more than today literal base model...
56 grand base 1lt c7Add two grand for the A8 and five more for this new model and we are at 63 for a base c8 tops.
61 grand for a 1Lt z51 add two grand for the A8...add five grand for the newer model and we are at 69 grand..l
that sounds about right...in my opinion..
the spy shots show narrow tires...just doesn’t appear to be a z06 high performance version which will come 2nd or 3 rd year...
wider fenders, wider wheels and tires and of course a much higher price..
im not even 100 percent sure the standard model we are seeing will come with a dct...maybe it will be a manual and a A10 for the base model and then the dct for the c8 z06 type model...
we we know nothing...
it sire is fun speculating
i don’t believe corvette can be segmented into the same identical catorgories and survive.
looking at the spy shots of the vehicle testing it clearly looks to many of us as a standard first year model.
the hyper pricepoint being discussed or even one starting at 70 is in my opinion inaccurate.
five grand more msrp than today’s z511LT would be my best guess...and you can if the vehicle comes standard with a dct add the price of a torque converter automatic...to the additional five above today’s z51 and that’s just if the standard vehicle is a z51 model...
it could with no th no heavy duty equipment just be five grand more than today literal base model...
56 grand base 1lt c7Add two grand for the A8 and five more for this new model and we are at 63 for a base c8 tops.
61 grand for a 1Lt z51 add two grand for the A8...add five grand for the newer model and we are at 69 grand..l
that sounds about right...in my opinion..
the spy shots show narrow tires...just doesn’t appear to be a z06 high performance version which will come 2nd or 3 rd year...
wider fenders, wider wheels and tires and of course a much higher price..
im not even 100 percent sure the standard model we are seeing will come with a dct...maybe it will be a manual and a A10 for the base model and then the dct for the c8 z06 type model...
we we know nothing...
it sire is fun speculating
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07-22-2018, 04:37 PM
#344
Le Mans Master
The 2020 ME will be built on the same chassis as the C7. Therefore, the Bowling Green assembly line can accommodate a ME and FE simultaneously.
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
As far as there being a dual platform Corvette, I think this only happens if that mid engine car is a special high performance low production variant. If it is, then it will most likely be priced, at minimum, the Z06 price point if not the ZR1 price point, with the FE to be the Eighth Generation priced similar to current Stingray pricing. If the mid engine comes out as the Eighth Generation, then I believe we will not see a FE to follow.
The one other scenario I see is if they actually do both, as a customer choice kind of thing, then offer the Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1 variants of each. But I would think if they did this, both as the Eighth Generation, then they would roll them out in Detroit side by side, kind of as the "Dynamic Duo" kind of thing. This I believe, is a real long shot.
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CorvetteBrent (08-14-2018)
07-22-2018, 05:04 PM
#345
Melting Slicks
The Alpha platform cars are unibody, at least for now, but I doubt that will change. Considering that only about 30%, if that, of Camaro sales are the high performance SS and ZL1 variants, I don't see them taking it to a two seater platform, though I don't think that is what you were getting at. The Camaro/Cadillac demographic is also somewhat different from the Corvette. The Camaro and Cadillacs are marketed as daily commuter cars, at least the V6 and Turbo 4 cars, which is their bread and butter. This also means we won't be seeing an $80K Camaro any time soon. The ZL1 starts out at $62K and the 1LE package adds about $8K to that car, the 1LE package for the SS is about a $2,500 add on.
As far as there being a dual platform Corvette, I think this only happens if that mid engine car is a special high performance low production variant. If it is, then it will most likely be priced, at minimum, the Z06 price point if not the ZR1 price point, with the FE to be the Eighth Generation priced similar to current Stingray pricing. If the mid engine comes out as the Eighth Generation, then I believe we will not see a FE to follow.
The one other scenario I see is if they actually do both, as a customer choice kind of thing, then offer the Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1 variants of each. But I would think if they did this, both as the Eighth Generation, then they would roll them out in Detroit side by side, kind of as the "Dynamic Duo" kind of thing. This I believe, is a real long shot.
As far as there being a dual platform Corvette, I think this only happens if that mid engine car is a special high performance low production variant. If it is, then it will most likely be priced, at minimum, the Z06 price point if not the ZR1 price point, with the FE to be the Eighth Generation priced similar to current Stingray pricing. If the mid engine comes out as the Eighth Generation, then I believe we will not see a FE to follow.
The one other scenario I see is if they actually do both, as a customer choice kind of thing, then offer the Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1 variants of each. But I would think if they did this, both as the Eighth Generation, then they would roll them out in Detroit side by side, kind of as the "Dynamic Duo" kind of thing. This I believe, is a real long shot.
I think the ME Zora will be revealed at the 2018 LA auto show next fall with production starting in January 2019. The FE Stingray will be revealed at the 2019 Detroit auto show with production starting next July. Both cars will be built on the same assembly line with the same engines and DCTs, but the FE will still offer the manual trans. Production of 2019 Stingray will end before the ME Zora starts.
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Mikec7z (07-22-2018)
07-22-2018, 05:37 PM
#346
Le Mans Master
The Cadillac/Camaro I am thinking about is the coupe revealed in the patent drawings that looks like a Camaro, but is built on the CT6 V-Sport chassis, shortened for a 2-door. The Corvettes will get the same twin turbo V8 engines as the Cadillac but with different displacements and HP ratings.
I think the ME Zora will be revealed at the 2018 LA auto show next fall with production starting in January 2019. The FE Stingray will be revealed at the 2019 Detroit auto show with production starting next July. Both cars will be built on the same assembly line with the same engines and DCTs, but the FE will still offer the manual trans. Production of 2019 Stingray will end before the ME Zora starts.
I think the ME Zora will be revealed at the 2018 LA auto show next fall with production starting in January 2019. The FE Stingray will be revealed at the 2019 Detroit auto show with production starting next July. Both cars will be built on the same assembly line with the same engines and DCTs, but the FE will still offer the manual trans. Production of 2019 Stingray will end before the ME Zora starts.
Of course, it's all speculation on the Corvette, because according to GM, there is no such thing. Lol
07-23-2018, 08:01 AM
#347
Safety Car
The 2020 ME will be built on the same chassis as the C7. Therefore, the Bowling Green assembly line can accommodate a ME and FE simultaneously.
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
If the ME starts at $70k, the refreshed FE, with a horsepower increase to 500, could start at under $60K and sell 30K cars annually. With the ME adding 10K sales annually, the business case makes sense.
The ME alone does not make sense because it is too risky with a $70K starting price and unknown take rate by current FE Corvette buyers. GM won't risk the kind of failure that the ME alone could have in the marketplace.
Then the Cadillac Camaro, using a stretched C7 chassis, starts production in 2021 on the same line and adds another 20K sales annually at $80K.
What's wrong with this picture?
07-23-2018, 09:10 AM
#348
Race Director
I haven't seen those drawings. I know that Chevy just did a refresh on the front and rear of the Camaro for 2019. My understanding is the CTS and ATS will be on a new Alpha II platform with new designations.
Of course, it's all speculation on the Corvette, because according to GM, there is no such thing. Lol
Of course, it's all speculation on the Corvette, because according to GM, there is no such thing. Lol
Last edited by jimmyb; 07-23-2018 at 09:11 AM.
07-31-2018, 01:51 PM
#352
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Just my opinion here - I don't claim to know anyone, or have some secret undisclosable pipeline to Bowling Green. I think that when the new mid-engine Corvette appears in mid-2019 as a 2020 model, it will be the one and only Corvette offered - no more front -engine cars - and it will have a starting MSRP of around $70K or perhaps a bit less, with the highest-performance models with all the bells & whistles pushing $140K or perhaps a bit more. They may build something else at Bowling Green, perhaps for Cadillac - but it won't be a second Corvette.
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RapidC84B (07-31-2018)
07-31-2018, 02:02 PM
#353
Just my opinion here - I don't claim to know anyone, or have some secret undisclosable pipeline to Bowling Green. I think that when the new mid-engine Corvette appears in mid-2019 as a 2020 model, it will be the one and only Corvette offered - no more front -engine cars - and it will have a starting MSRP of around $70K or perhaps a bit less, with the highest-performance models with all the bells & whistles pushing $140K or perhaps a bit more. They may build something else at Bowling Green, perhaps for Cadillac - but it won't be a second Corvette.
08-01-2018, 09:02 PM
#355
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
08-11-2018, 05:01 PM
#357
Front engine:: engine is in front of the driver.
Rear engine:: engine is behind the driver.
Mid engine: engine is between centerline of both axles.
By these definitions, the corvette is front engined and mid engined. C8 will be rear engined and mid engined.
Boxster has the engine in front of the transaxle both behind the driver, so does Cayman.
911 has the engine behind the transaxle and both behind the driver.
Rear engine:: engine is behind the driver.
Mid engine: engine is between centerline of both axles.
By these definitions, the corvette is front engined and mid engined. C8 will be rear engined and mid engined.
Boxster has the engine in front of the transaxle both behind the driver, so does Cayman.
911 has the engine behind the transaxle and both behind the driver.
08-11-2018, 09:32 PM
#358
Race Director
None of us know for sure, but it really makes a ton of sense to me.
Last edited by Rapid Fred; 08-11-2018 at 09:37 PM.
