2020 will be mid engine release, and 2021 will be a new front engine model also?...
07-10-2018, 03:07 AM
#141
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
mid engines dont have as long of crumple zones in the front, not as safe. They dont have battering ram to get cars out of their way, not as safe. The end.
07-10-2018, 03:09 AM
#142
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
people who say " i agree with you but"... and then go on for 2 minutes... they dont actually agree. They just have a skill to try to disarm people from arguing with them as they disagree.
07-10-2018, 03:10 AM
#143
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
front engine cars are safer, apples to apples, assuming one cockpit technology is carried to the other car as well...
Agree or disagree?
Its very simple. If you say "but... blah blah blah..." then we dont agree
Agree or disagree?
Its very simple. If you say "but... blah blah blah..." then we dont agree
07-10-2018, 03:13 AM
#144
Melting Slicks
or is that not possible in your world?
jeez.... lol
Last edited by mammoth713; 07-10-2018 at 03:15 AM.
07-10-2018, 03:16 AM
#145
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
the nuances are a distraction from the fact.. they arent as safe.
btw, i too am an engineer, i just dont brag about it to force people to believe my ideas, i use logic.
im going to use one last logic, that a 5 year old would follow, and we will see if you follow my point and why your nuances dont matter whatsoever on an apples to apples rigid as possible cockpit.....
...
btw, i too am an engineer, i just dont brag about it to force people to believe my ideas, i use logic.
im going to use one last logic, that a 5 year old would follow, and we will see if you follow my point and why your nuances dont matter whatsoever on an apples to apples rigid as possible cockpit.....
...
07-10-2018, 03:26 AM
#146
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
we have a vehicle, and on the front of that vehicle, is a giant metal weight that weights 100,000 lbs.
Behind the 100,000 lbs is a 2 ft crumple zone... and behind the crumple zone is a cockpit... as rigid as possible.
We take this vehicle, and we go run red lights for sport.
First car we T bone... the 100,000 lb block of metal hits their car and blasts them out of the way. We keep moving just fine. The crumple zone, not affected. Our cockpit... perfectly fine.
We continue on.
We do this for the rest of the evening, blast 100 or more cars... we are fine.
Then a genius comes along and says "Lets make this like a ferrari!... lets put the weight in the back of us!"
So we say, okay.
Next car we hit.. our 2 ft crumple zone is gone... in .01 seconds, and guess how much speed we have lost in that process... zilch... the 100,000 lbs just keeps us moving at the same speed before our crumple zone collapsed. And now... the guy we are hitting, his vehicle is now colliding with our cockpit. his vehicle is going pretty much the same direction it was .1 seconds ago... and that direction is still into us.
It hits our rigid cockpit.
1 of 3 things happens...
either our cockpit crushes and we die. (reality back here on planet earth and not la la land)
or our cockpit doesn't crush, because it is made out of super magical material, and the vehicle we hit, gets blasted out of the way and we continue on... and we can keep playing this game all night without the crumple zone because it was pointless since we have the super magic material for a cockpit and 100,000 lbs of momentum behind us, so we will blast everyone out of our way.
or option 3, we finally hit something else that weighs 100,000 lbs and is as rigid as we are, and we come to a stop instantly. Not crushed, but the steering wheel just broke your neck and ribs and your are dying.
you see the point? a front engine, will always be safer than a mid or rear engine, apples to apples. There are no nuances. WHatever the nuances are, you add them to the front engine car, and now its the winner.
you are giving me a headache that you dont understand this yet.
Behind the 100,000 lbs is a 2 ft crumple zone... and behind the crumple zone is a cockpit... as rigid as possible.
We take this vehicle, and we go run red lights for sport.
First car we T bone... the 100,000 lb block of metal hits their car and blasts them out of the way. We keep moving just fine. The crumple zone, not affected. Our cockpit... perfectly fine.
We continue on.
We do this for the rest of the evening, blast 100 or more cars... we are fine.
Then a genius comes along and says "Lets make this like a ferrari!... lets put the weight in the back of us!"
So we say, okay.
Next car we hit.. our 2 ft crumple zone is gone... in .01 seconds, and guess how much speed we have lost in that process... zilch... the 100,000 lbs just keeps us moving at the same speed before our crumple zone collapsed. And now... the guy we are hitting, his vehicle is now colliding with our cockpit. his vehicle is going pretty much the same direction it was .1 seconds ago... and that direction is still into us.
It hits our rigid cockpit.
1 of 3 things happens...
either our cockpit crushes and we die. (reality back here on planet earth and not la la land)
or our cockpit doesn't crush, because it is made out of super magical material, and the vehicle we hit, gets blasted out of the way and we continue on... and we can keep playing this game all night without the crumple zone because it was pointless since we have the super magic material for a cockpit and 100,000 lbs of momentum behind us, so we will blast everyone out of our way.
or option 3, we finally hit something else that weighs 100,000 lbs and is as rigid as we are, and we come to a stop instantly. Not crushed, but the steering wheel just broke your neck and ribs and your are dying.
you see the point? a front engine, will always be safer than a mid or rear engine, apples to apples. There are no nuances. WHatever the nuances are, you add them to the front engine car, and now its the winner.
you are giving me a headache that you dont understand this yet.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 07-10-2018 at 03:32 AM.
07-10-2018, 03:29 AM
#147
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
i forgot one of the key points... in the front engine... when you finally hit something that also weights 100,000 lbs... now the 2 ft crumple zone decelerates the cockpit over 2 feet.
In the mid engine... the crumple zone is totally destroyed, with zero deceleration... and at that point, you either have a magic cockpit that stops you intantly (which hurts, or you have a normal cockpit, which collapses... either way, you are toast)
This is an exaggerated example to help ANYONE understand, there is no safety advantage to a mid engine car when the nose is shorter. NONE
Corvette ME nose is shorter, FACT. The end, goodnight. goodbye, either agree, or nuance away... and i disagree with your nuances.
In the mid engine... the crumple zone is totally destroyed, with zero deceleration... and at that point, you either have a magic cockpit that stops you intantly (which hurts, or you have a normal cockpit, which collapses... either way, you are toast)
This is an exaggerated example to help ANYONE understand, there is no safety advantage to a mid engine car when the nose is shorter. NONE
Corvette ME nose is shorter, FACT. The end, goodnight. goodbye, either agree, or nuance away... and i disagree with your nuances.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 07-10-2018 at 03:48 AM.
07-10-2018, 03:37 AM
#148
Melting Slicks
the nuances are a distraction from the fact.. they arent as safe.
btw, i too am an engineer, i just dont brag about it to force people to believe my ideas, i use logic.
im going to use one last logic, that a 5 year old would follow, and we will see if you follow my point and why your nuances dont matter whatsoever on an apples to apples rigid as possible cockpit.....
...
btw, i too am an engineer, i just dont brag about it to force people to believe my ideas, i use logic.
im going to use one last logic, that a 5 year old would follow, and we will see if you follow my point and why your nuances dont matter whatsoever on an apples to apples rigid as possible cockpit.....
...
I mentioned I'm a satellite engineer to qualify my statements
If you hold the cockpit rigidity constant as ideal, then, generally speaking, the smaller front crumple zone would present itself as an inherent challenge for the ME design to overcome.
Your idealized situation doesn't address the fact that the motor behind the ideally stiff cockpit would now be a moot point and considered regular mass with the rest of the rear of the car, etc... but whatever.
The devils are in the details, cant go thru life saying
SUN BAD
CARS BAD
FOOD GOOD
BEER GOOD
WOMEN GOOD
WOMEN BAD
MONEY GOOD
POLITICS BAD
RELIGION GOOD
life is full of nuance...
I got your point the first time you said it for the record. The difference is you're saying "whatever you put on the ME, you can apply it to the front-engine and make it better!!" .............. yeah! I agree! My point was they could potentially spend some $$$ on researching a better crumple zone that performs "better-than-average-given-the-constraints", and thus make the ME perform safety wise as good as a "non-super-engineered-front-engine-car-layout-design".....
Last edited by mammoth713; 07-10-2018 at 03:51 AM.
07-10-2018, 03:49 AM
#149
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
"things are to be made as simple as possible, but no more."
Einstein
You missed the first half of that sentence.
Einstein
You missed the first half of that sentence.
07-10-2018, 03:50 AM
#150
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
e=mc2... but... blah blah blah blah...
no. e=mc2. Its complicated enough. My statements, complicated enough. There is no other relevant nuance.
no. e=mc2. Its complicated enough. My statements, complicated enough. There is no other relevant nuance.
07-10-2018, 08:26 AM
#151
18 thicknesses of Al
The current C7 has 18 different thicknesses of Al and a variety of joining methods.
Don't you think the safety engineers are smart enough do proper crumble zones with the ME.
Think of the liability for failing to do so.
[QUOTE=Mikec7z;1597567296]mid engines dont have as long of crumple zones in the front, not as safe. They dont have battering ram to get cars out of their way, not as safe. The end.[/QUOTE
Don't you think the safety engineers are smart enough do proper crumble zones with the ME.
Think of the liability for failing to do so.
[QUOTE=Mikec7z;1597567296]mid engines dont have as long of crumple zones in the front, not as safe. They dont have battering ram to get cars out of their way, not as safe. The end.[/QUOTE
07-10-2018, 08:44 AM
#152
we have a vehicle, and on the front of that vehicle, is a giant metal weight that weights 100,000 lbs.
Behind the 100,000 lbs is a 2 ft crumple zone... and behind the crumple zone is a cockpit... as rigid as possible.
We take this vehicle, and we go run red lights for sport.
First car we T bone... the 100,000 lb block of metal hits their car and blasts them out of the way. We keep moving just fine. The crumple zone, not affected. Our cockpit... perfectly fine.
We continue on.
We do this for the rest of the evening, blast 100 or more cars... we are fine.
Then a genius comes along and says "Lets make this like a ferrari!... lets put the weight in the back of us!"
So we say, okay.
Next car we hit.. our 2 ft crumple zone is gone... in .01 seconds, and guess how much speed we have lost in that process... zilch... the 100,000 lbs just keeps us moving at the same speed before our crumple zone collapsed. And now... the guy we are hitting, his vehicle is now colliding with our cockpit. his vehicle is going pretty much the same direction it was .1 seconds ago... and that direction is still into us.
It hits our rigid cockpit.
1 of 3 things happens...
either our cockpit crushes and we die. (reality back here on planet earth and not la la land)
or our cockpit doesn't crush, because it is made out of super magical material, and the vehicle we hit, gets blasted out of the way and we continue on... and we can keep playing this game all night without the crumple zone because it was pointless since we have the super magic material for a cockpit and 100,000 lbs of momentum behind us, so we will blast everyone out of our way.
or option 3, we finally hit something else that weighs 100,000 lbs and is as rigid as we are, and we come to a stop instantly. Not crushed, but the steering wheel just broke your neck and ribs and your are dying.t.
Behind the 100,000 lbs is a 2 ft crumple zone... and behind the crumple zone is a cockpit... as rigid as possible.
We take this vehicle, and we go run red lights for sport.
First car we T bone... the 100,000 lb block of metal hits their car and blasts them out of the way. We keep moving just fine. The crumple zone, not affected. Our cockpit... perfectly fine.
We continue on.
We do this for the rest of the evening, blast 100 or more cars... we are fine.
Then a genius comes along and says "Lets make this like a ferrari!... lets put the weight in the back of us!"
So we say, okay.
Next car we hit.. our 2 ft crumple zone is gone... in .01 seconds, and guess how much speed we have lost in that process... zilch... the 100,000 lbs just keeps us moving at the same speed before our crumple zone collapsed. And now... the guy we are hitting, his vehicle is now colliding with our cockpit. his vehicle is going pretty much the same direction it was .1 seconds ago... and that direction is still into us.
It hits our rigid cockpit.
1 of 3 things happens...
either our cockpit crushes and we die. (reality back here on planet earth and not la la land)
or our cockpit doesn't crush, because it is made out of super magical material, and the vehicle we hit, gets blasted out of the way and we continue on... and we can keep playing this game all night without the crumple zone because it was pointless since we have the super magic material for a cockpit and 100,000 lbs of momentum behind us, so we will blast everyone out of our way.
or option 3, we finally hit something else that weighs 100,000 lbs and is as rigid as we are, and we come to a stop instantly. Not crushed, but the steering wheel just broke your neck and ribs and your are dying.t.
07-10-2018, 09:41 AM
#153
Race Director
I guess we need to buy Volvos.
07-10-2018, 09:51 AM
#154
Race Director
What we DO know is the OP has got WAY too much sugar in his diet. He reminds me of 2016SS or whatever that guy's many handles were (he got banned every time). I feel confident the OP is on his way to a similar fate.
Last edited by jimmyb; 07-10-2018 at 10:03 AM.
07-10-2018, 10:14 AM
#155
You guys realize the Tesla model S had the best front impact crash test results of any car ever made right? Removing the engine allows engineers to make the entire front a crumple zone.
07-10-2018, 10:18 AM
#156
Race Director
^^^^^
Oh boy, now you've done it....
Oh boy, now you've done it....
07-10-2018, 10:23 AM
#157
Team Owner
The following users liked this post:
Oneslackr (07-10-2018)
07-10-2018, 12:17 PM
#158
Exactly. The OP can't seem to decide what he wants his thread to be about....Porsches that don't exist....safety of FE verses ME architecture....will there be an FE Corvette after 2021....?
What we DO know is the OP has got WAY too much sugar in his diet. He reminds me of 2016SS or whatever that guy's many handles were (he got banned every time). I feel confident the OP is on his way to a similar fate.
What we DO know is the OP has got WAY too much sugar in his diet. He reminds me of 2016SS or whatever that guy's many handles were (he got banned every time). I feel confident the OP is on his way to a similar fate.
I bet this guy is the life of the party!!
The following users liked this post:
3 Z06ZR1 (07-21-2018)
07-10-2018, 01:08 PM
#159
Am I the last dog into this (friendly) fight? 
I agree with OP. I don't see GM saying well that was fun spending 100's of millions on a FE Lets throw it out and start over. The FE is a pinnacle or close to it of FE design. The options to massage the design are numerous, cost efficient and GM will milk it for all it's worth. If it was my business call that would be it. How it positions it and sells it remains to be seen.
I agree with OP. I don't see GM saying well that was fun spending 100's of millions on a FE Lets throw it out and start over. The FE is a pinnacle or close to it of FE design. The options to massage the design are numerous, cost efficient and GM will milk it for all it's worth. If it was my business call that would be it. How it positions it and sells it remains to be seen.
07-10-2018, 01:39 PM
#160
Le Mans Master
Am I the last dog into this (friendly) fight?
I agree with OP. I don't see GM saying well that was fun spending 100's of millions on a FE Lets throw it out and start over. The FE is a pinnacle or close to it of FE design. The options to massage the design are numerous, cost efficient and GM will milk it for all it's worth. If it was my business call that would be it. How it positions it and sells it remains to be seen.
I agree with OP. I don't see GM saying well that was fun spending 100's of millions on a FE Lets throw it out and start over. The FE is a pinnacle or close to it of FE design. The options to massage the design are numerous, cost efficient and GM will milk it for all it's worth. If it was my business call that would be it. How it positions it and sells it remains to be seen.
Last edited by Dominic Sorresso; 07-10-2018 at 06:52 PM.