JerriVette

Mikec7z

an f1 car has one of the biggest crumple zones known to man. 9 times out of 10, they dont hit the wall head on, they hit it diagonal. Thus the wheel and all the suspension bars are your crumple zone... multiple feet. The driver is in a capsule.

A passenger car does not have this luxury, you are sitting next to the door. Your crumple zone just went from feet to inches in a vette vs a formula 1 car.

Same with the front of the cars... the F1 car has a huge wing and a large nose that keep the drivers feet... many feet from the actual front of the car.

IF an f1 car hits a wall square head on... the driver is going to be hurt, no doubt about it.

How do you guys not understand these things on your own? Seriously.

f1 cars crumple zones are huge, and their capsule around the driver, very strong cylinder shape, And their engines in the rear are very light... so there is less weight pushing an f1 driver into what they are hitting relative to our street cars rear engine and rear vehicle weight.

Mikec7z

the wall that you hit, did not stop you dead in your tracks, you ricochet or went over it, and continued to move.

Below video is at 25 mph. at 50mph your car is a pancake in the front. at 72... so is the cabin for the most part. This is true for all cars on the road today.

If you go from 72 to 0, and no more movement, you are gone. I hate to be a "know it all" or "psychic" but I know the rules of cars and physics and you are a gonner if you hit a solid wall head on and completely stop from that speed.

I had a friend hit one of those concrete bridge poles and his car almost stopped dead in its tracks but kind of spun around and traveled a few more feet. He barely lived. He was in an audi a8. They are pretty safe cars. a 911 stright head on into a wall and no further movement from 72? i dont buy it, sorry.

Mikec7z

that is 25mph. at 50, the front of a car is a pancake. at 72, so is the passenger cabin on every car on the road today. You didnt hit a wall at 72 head on and stop and walk away.

OnPoint

A dead stop from even 25 mph is a nasty hit.

Paraphrasing 'ol Sir Isaac - - Inertia can be a bitch.

JerriVette

Shaka

Hey, I like the way you talk. You are wasting your time.here, however. The C8 section is totally incorrigible. The level of ignorance is alarming. They will block you for telling the truth. A group block is not uncommon. The arrogance seems to be a prevailing trend in the American psychi these days. They are the great pretenders.
I'm a mechanical engineer and I designed a car that met DOT (not NTSB) and EPA requirements.[Sec.49]. NTSB performs the tests of the design after meeting DOT structural standards. Below 500 units/annum, you don't actually have to perform a physical crash test but you may have to if the NTSB determines that you should after examining crash results.
Modern computer sims preclude actual crash tests in most cases. especially for vehicle made from typical steel and aluminum structures because of the linearlarity nature of their energy absorption. The DOT also prescribes particulars for pendulum construction for impact into various points on the chassis also for very low volume cars . Also, only the preservation of the chest cavity and brain survival is required at 35 mph which is fortunate for ME engineers. 60 G spike load for the chest. The Audi and Huracan have just about the same chassis. You will loose your legs. The Aventador is composite with a steel impact structure for impact only and no other duties.
The composite structure will survive but you won't. The C7 needs that engine up there for survival as you say because aluminum is a hopeless material. The C8 ME will have a cast magnesium subframes back and front that will be the new wonder material for cars anyway.
It is very difficult to design a front engine car because of the 4 duties the front structure must perform. Engine cradle, torsion, bending and energy absorption. The composite car has to be crash tested because of the unpredictable nature of CF in deformation of the type of impact loads found in collisions.
The McLaren F1 incurred little damage at 35 mph but the occupants did not survive.

vetteman41960

Going back to the OP original post before it got sidetracked on a issue if GM cannot build a Rear mid Engine Corvette that is as safe as the front engine.

On that subject I see no issue with GM building a safe rear mid engine Corvette. The car will be design to collapse at controlled points and make sure the passenger compartment remains in tack.

There is no reason to believe that Porsche Ferrari Lamborghini Maclaren all build rear engine super cars that are every bit as safe as a C7 and for some reason GM won't be able too. I own 3 large Collison Center doing well north of 12 million in annual sales and I NEVER once consider that my 15 Ferrari 458 was any less safe than my Callaway.

We fixed countless 911 hit hard in the front end and they are every bit as structally sound as any Corvette. Now I know being in the business and seeing nothing but Collision Repairs performed on upwards of 5000 car per year won't mean much to a guy like Mike c7. As he seem to think he is a Collison Expert and expert on all thing C7.

All I can say is he can sight as many articles he want but if cars with rear engine like the 911 and or rear mid engine like Ferrari or Lamborghini were any less safe than a C7 the big insurance companies would not insure them.

But back to the question of will GM End production of the front mid engine Corvette and only sell the rear mid engine is a tough questions to answer.

Those who know the history of the C7 know that GM limited R&D to $250 million when the design team designed the C7.

If I remember correctly the design team had asked for $750 million to design the C6 replacement.

When faced with a limited budget the design team knew the C7 had to be an evaluation of the C6 and not a revolutionary redesign and a rear mid engine C7.

So the C7 had many compromises due to R&D dollars. With that said they did a great job. I had a 2014 Z51 traded for a 2015 Z06 m7 which I traded for a 2016 Callaway Z06 z07 SC 757 wth A8 which I still own .

I struggle from.the business side that GM would risk completely doing away with the front engine Corvette.

But if the C8 rear mid engine come out and is priced within 10k of the current base C7 then that will tell us GM plans to drop the front engine Corvette.

GM is not spending 1 Billion on R&D to develop a revolutionary Rear mid engine Corvette and price it within the normal Corvette price range with a generational mark of 5 to 10k over the current C7 and thing that GM is going to spend hundreds of million more to update the C7 and have it compete price wise with a far superior technical advanced Corvette in the rear mid engine Corvette and have them compete in same price range. That make zero sence.

Now if the C8 Rear mid engine base price is 80k then possible I could see GM continuing to offer a less technical Corvette that was 20k cheaper to keep the entry level.buyer in the Corvette family.

But you know that the Z06 AND ZR1 will be history as GM will only build the higher performance model with the latest great technology.


Fact is the C7 is dated and has reached it fullest performance potential.

GM went to the rear mid engine because that the only way to advance the Corvette performance.

So I think we will know if the C8 is a base of 70k the front engine Corvette is dead.

If the C8 is 80 plus then possible the front engine will live on for entry level buyers.


​​​​​I personally hope that GM keep the dated C7 as entry level pricing and goes upscale with the C8 with much nicer interior option and engine options.


That way there is a Corvette for ever body from 60k to 150 plus for the C8 ZR1 replacement.

JerriVette

elegant

Skid Row Joe

This entire thread is C8 central rumor control.

The OP (original post) was 3rd hand - if even true at that No links, no sources, nothing. Absolutely nothing but op-ed BS.

Rumpelstiltskin, couldn't top that boolsh#t.

Mikec7z

Cool, its a great opportunity then for you to make some money. Place a wager against me. Documented for all to see. If im wrong, ill pay you. If you are wrong, you pay me. Until then, dont insult me again.

Mikec7z

Are you aware how many 2018 were built? How about how many 19's will be built?

GM is not producing them in gluts so that they don't have to give them away. They are staying shy of market demand on purpose.... following in porsche and ferrari's footsteps.

They know this blower on the z06 and zr1 is riddled with heat flaws by the way the cooling system is designed, so they are eager to get to the turbo motors, and be done with this chapter before they get hammered in lawsuits/forced recalls, as people find out the rest of the car's weaknesses that have not been made fully mainstream yet.

The turbo vettes, front and mid engine, will sell like hotcakes because of their upgrade capabilities in power for little amount of money.

Once a car is rigged for turbos, putting bigger turbos on, is cake. THere will be 1300hp vettes left and right, and to get there, people may only have to spend 15 to 20 grand.

GM had to rearrange the factory assembly floor to make room for the ME cars production... and they will have another re-arrange for the new front engine car... so the next couple years are going to be a big shakeup in their production numbers as there will be months when the factory is non operational.

vetteman41960

Mike
I hate to say this but as I can see your the type who cannot take any criticism with any degree of maturity. And before you ask I have no interest in placing a wager with you. Seems that among some of your other personality traits you may have a gambling addiction as well.

I am partner with a Chevrolet dealership in Fl. which is the number 3 Corvette market in the country.

Currently most dealership have on hand over a 130 days supply of C7 Corvettes with the only exception being the 2019 Zr1.

Ideal supple for any vehicle is a 60 day supple and dealerships all over the country are running in excess of 130 days supple of the Corvette C7.

This has resulted in GM discounts upward of 7k for Corvette in stock and also has forced dealership to offer dealer incentives to move the old inventory on top of the factory incentives.

This down cycle of sales is common for the Corvette in each generation as its now been available for almost 5 year and going on 6 model years with no refresh.

Then there is the fact that Corvette faithfully are all well aware that the C8 rear mid engine is on the way next year possible as a 2020 model most likely available late 2019. NO ONE OUTSIDE THE MARKETING AND DEVELOPMENT TEAM KNOW FOR SURE WHEN IT WILL RELEASE.

What you will see is GM slow production significantly as dealers stop ordering for inventory.

There will be a handfull of large Corvette dealershipso that will order and stock the C7 as they know that allocation of the Rear Mid engine Vett will be based on the prior year dealers sale of the C7.

So many of the larger dealers will order C7's and sell at or near dead cost and in many cases a loss to ensure when allocation opens for the rear mid that they will receive the bulk of that allocation which will all sell at MSRP. for as many as the factory will allocate to them.

Only then after the big dealers have received allocation will the smaller dealers be able to order the new Vett for their customer base.

This exact same pattern happen at the end of the C6 life cyle and the start of the C7 generation.

I been in the Car business for 35 plus year and been aassociated with my partner Chevrolet fanchise since 2012. So you can take my advice on this subject or ignore it . Make zero difference to me.

Lastly on the rumors if the C7 and mid engine Vett will sell side by side with customer able to order either model NO ONE KNOWS except for folks that are in marketing and involved in the Corvette development.

I am a Hugh Corvette guy and have owned every generation except C1 and have owned and still own a 2016 Callaway SC 757. This being my 3Rd ordered and purchased C7. My partner who is the dealer principal is also a Hugh Corvette guy.

Guess what when we speak to our factory rep the answer is always the same. They cannot discuss future product even with the owner of the dealership.

The best we get is there will be a new generation of the Corvette sometime in the future.

So when I hear guys like you who speak in such a way that your guaranteeing that the C7 will life on or what the Mid Engine with be called internally all I can say is I doubt you where given accurate information.

The only rumor I have heard of internal designation is the the development team has often referred to a upcoming model code named the Emperor .

Even that I would take with a grain of salt.

Now go ahead and fire away as I sure your tell me I am full of it and you know far more than I do.

Mikec7z

I actually agree with most everything you said.

For you to assume i dont understand those things... is a poor assumption on your behalf I guess.

The real only 2 places you and I disagree is on the fact that maybe, i have a tighter connection with the Chevy factory reps than you do.

And instead of getting into a pissing match or bragging who all I know or what I know and how I know, and go down that path...

ill simply let you "win" whatever it is you are here to "win"

I actually dont gamble at casinos. I gamble on myself and talents. Ill gamble you in a race perhaps. Ill gamble you if you tell me I cant accomplish X and i believe i can.

And i gamble on things when people tell me im wrong. See, the way I was raised... IF I TOLD SOMEONE THEY WERE WRONG.. IF I HAD THAT AUDACITY... i had better be willing to place a wager on it.

Otherwise, no one deserves the insult of being told they are wrong, by anyone, if the other person, is not even confident enough in their "knowledge" that they would be willing to bet on it.

This isnt the casino, the odds arent against us. THis is just you and me, or someone else and me. One of us wins, one of us loses.

So what I encourage people to realize is, before they throw INSULTS.. figure out what it is that you disagree with me so much on... that I deserve to be insulted.

And once you figure out what it is that we disagree on, so much that I deserve to be insulted... Get ready to bet money that you are right and I am wrong...

Otherwise... ill tell you that you are full of s*** every time. Because if you actually believed that you are right and i'm wrong... and you got to keep your money in your pocket until i prove im right... what do you have to lose? Place the bet.

The only way you lose is if... you are wrong. If there is even a remote chance you are wrong... why have the audacity to tell me im wrong then in the first place, if you MIGHT be wrong... do you follow me?

I am not the one who lacks maturity. Most of you do. Your post was very mature however, compared to most of the other people who come in here and speak.

And FYI... IF i had DIRECT FIRST HAND, FIRST PERSON KNOWLEDGE of what i know, from the people at the top of GM... and it wasn't 3rd person knowledge... i still... would not... say that i have first hand knowledge... because that burns my trust with the ones who divulge information to me, who are at the top IF such a connection between them and myself was to exist. I play possum. You have no clue who I am.

Do you understand?

Tell Rafael Nunez I said hello. And IF for whatever reason he is not your rep, tell me what part of florida you are in, and I will tell you your factory reps name and send you their email address and picture, and it wont be a picture that can be found on the net. I am not a flake, don't accuse me of being one again. But, lets face it, he is probably your rep.

You have no clue who I am, nor will you ever find out.

Mikec7z

Sales on c7's wouldn't be falling if so many people werent preaching that font engine cars are obsolete and need to be thrown in the trash can. By the time a mid engine corvette comes out that is worth owning, it wont be until the model year 2021, but probably more in line with 2022. In the meantime, buy a c7 z06. zR1 are a rip off.

And even once the ME comes out, the front engine with turbos, will be the car to own... in my opinion. We all have our preferences. When things go wrong and my car runs into something, i enjoy staying alive. When things go wrong and I have to brake and turn to avoid a problem with no notice, front engine cars win. They will always be able to dodge the bullet under hard braking better than a ME or RE apples to apples. ME and RE lose grip in front wheels and plow forward. Front engine get squirrely and the back comes around. Having all 4 wheels facing off in a 45 degree angle from what I am about to hit... so i can let off the brakes and avoid hitting "IT", sounds good to me.

And this is about that moment when someone who does not drive well at all, comes in and starts bragging about the crash deterrent features on the ME... and i want to shoot myself that people can be so gullible

vetteman41960

Mike I already own a 2016 Callaway SC757 which has more horsepower and torque than the 19 ZR1.

I looking forward to the Mid Engine due to the driving dynamics of a rear mid engine design.

I also have 15 458 and don't drive it as often as I would like because the mileage kills the value of. Ferrari in such a significant way.

I looking forward to a 550 HP DCT HTC that I can drive the living daylights out of and if it breaks GM will fix it. I also won't lose a ton of money as I would when putting milage on the Ferrari.

I'm absolutely sure the mid engine Vette is going to knock everyone socks off and GM will give us a great car with traditional Corvette value.

I know a few guys in the local Ferrari club that are excited to see the Mid engine Vette. They love the dynamic of a rear mid engine car but don't like to put a lot of miles on their Ferrari or risk tracking them.

But they might be willing spend a 100k for a mid engine Vette to daily drive and take to the track and beat on it knowing GM stand behind it when it breaks.

Mikec7z

You and I have a lot in common, and I agree with this entire post

I too see the value in warranties and being able to put many miles on a car. I daily drive my c7z. I have not modded the engine due to a problem I encountered early on, and I know the value of the warranty. My 19 that I am getting soon, i will mod that car. It will have a whipple 2.9 or turbos. You are probably thinking i am foolish to get a 19, but, here is another puzzle/riddle for you... i will be the first person on earth to get 0 percent financing from GM on the 18 or 19 c7z that I pick out. I will let you try to solve that puzzle.

I have owned many cars in my life around the 1000hp mark.

I also have no problem beating these mid engine brainwashed guys through a curve in my c7z, or even a c6z or c5z for that matter.

0-60... great.. ME wins. The rest of the time... I win.

-mike

Mikec7z

were you able to get zero percent on the callaway when it was offered on left over 16's in the spring of 2017?

vetteman41960

No I ordered the car in October of 2015 and took delivery in January of 2017. I had car shipped directly from Bowling Green to Callaway in Connecticut then had delivered right to my house.

I paid cash so did not finance the car as I purchased through my partners Chevrolet dealership and paid just what the factory invoice us for and including the hold back.

Car is just great but it's a lot of horsepower and torque for the chassis to handle.

It is faster than the Ferrari but much more difficult to drive. It tend to want to kill me as opposed to the 458 which is much easier to drive at the limit.

With all that said I would say I just an average driver so I have to show a lot of respect when driving the Callaway.

Never had it race mode with nannies all off because I need then on to help the beast from killing me lol.