2020 will be mid engine release, and 2021 will be a new front engine model also?...
07-05-2018, 02:44 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
2020 will be mid engine release, and 2021 will be a new front engine model also?...
A friend of mine who is connected and is usually spot on with corvette predictions, said that his source told him that in 2021 model year, the front engine car is going to get a revamp. The mid engine will be released next year, as a 2020 model he said, but the front engine corvette is not going away, which I already believed, but he says it is getting a face lift. I am not sure if they are going to do a drastic change or if it will just be all corvettes getting a zr1 like front end that breathes better and maybe a few more intercoolers, or what the deal will be. He said that dealers lack inventory on c7 and zr1 as production has slowed down due to constraints on certain pieces and parts supplied.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
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07-06-2018, 01:35 PM
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The market just isn't big enough to sell all these cars into. Why would they do this? To take the ME up market in price/target? Against who? Porsche? McClaren? Ferrari? And what does that leave the core Corvette buyers with - "buy this slightly refreshed $70K car from us, because the car we invested all the development dollars in costs $110K now and we've priced you out of that market". Who is going to bite on that?
If you base price the Mid Engine (85k-95k car alongside Z06), with the Z06 being slightly faster, widebody, more aggressive, etc. and the ME being the base "LT2" 480-510hp/DCT and an entirely different handling dynamic, not only do you force buyers to make a choice, you offer two entirely different cars to the market. At 85k you definitely make a case for Cayman buyers, as well as AMG GT, 911 buyers, etc who expect to pay more, but want more exotic or Porsche handling/feel.
The Z06's performance envelope can't be matched at 80k and the base price of the ME will likely force dedicated brand buyers up to the 100k range or slightly beyond. You still have an entire segment of buyers who don't want to spend 100k and are happy and willing to buy a base Stingray and enjoy roof off with 465hp or 480hp-510 were it an LT2.
The ME offers another platform to share costs with, making the possibilities for the front engine platform even better, not worse. Some of your dedicated Corvette buyers will switch over to the new Mid Engine of course, but some won't. The avg demo for Corvette is pretty old and a lot of guys will be plenty content with a 65k-70k (well equipped) Stingray vs a 95k-110k mid engine car.
The point here is to expand the brand in terms of market reach, as well as cost. Fact is, the Corvette is one of GM's most profitable vehicles, out the door. You don't take that and blow it up for an entirely different car...I can't make the case to myself on that one. The spaceframe nature of the Corvette, the stir friction welded members on the hydroformed frame...it offers incredible flexibility and ease of assembly...there is no reason you can't build both side by side...and we know they WILL because they will sell C7 and be building this Mid Engine car side by side...so why quit?
2016 there were just over 40k Corvettes produced. You lose some buyers of the front engine to the Mid Engine car, but you bring in new buyers with it also. C7's first year saw a HUGE sector of first time owners...they were younger and by all indicators, C7's radical design risks paid off. If you get Corvette to selling 50k units per year, spread across a HUGE spread of options (potentially 40+ buyer options combing ME/FE/coupe/vert/interior trims)...sharing much of the engineering and drivetrain across not only Corvette but other sectors of GM...I think that'd be ok.
Get to 2020 and the front engine platform is getting CHEAP to produce. You do a refresh on that car but keep the core...that's money right there. Refresh is just a tweak of the wheelbase, tweak of the aerodynamics, update some lighting, new dash, use the ME's new LT2, etc....that's all win. Getting that car for 60k will be bargain. What people need to realize is, the higher Corvette pushes, the better the very BOTTOM car becomes. Look at the Mclaren 570S for your proof. I think people who study other brands, within GM, have taken some notes from Mclaren for sure because Mclaren is doing some things very right, and they did so very quickly.
07-05-2018, 03:02 AM
#2
The only way the FE is coming back is if the ME lays a turd in the marketplace.
07-05-2018, 06:21 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
the production numbers on the ME car will match the demand which due to the price point will be lower
the vette has long been a "poor mans exotic" in terms of performance, and once the price goes up over 100k they are much harder to move.
Plenty of folks with $, hopefully I'll be there before I take a dirt nap. I like my old vettes because they are paid for.
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07-05-2018, 07:26 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Op, you are correct in your post. The C8 generation is both the four model front engine line up and now will include the mid engined Zora. Up to five models will represent the C8 generation. Corvette like Ferrari will have both FE and ME configurations.
Last edited by skank; 07-05-2018 at 07:29 AM.
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07-05-2018, 10:22 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
A friend of mine who is connected and is usually spot on with corvette predictions, said that his source told him that in 2021 model year, the front engine car is going to get a revamp. The mid engine will be released next year, as a 2020 model he said, but the front engine corvette is not going away, which I already believed, but he says it is getting a face lift. I am not sure if they are going to do a drastic change or if it will just be all corvettes getting a zr1 like front end that breathes better and maybe a few more intercoolers, or what the deal will be. He said that dealers lack inventory on c7 and zr1 as production has slowed down due to constraints on certain pieces and parts supplied.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
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07-05-2018, 10:38 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Mikec7z
A friend of mine who is connected and is usually spot on with corvette predictions, said that his source told him that in 2021 model year, the front engine car is going to get a revamp. The mid engine will be released next year, as a 2020 model he said, but the front engine corvette is not going away, which I already believed, but he says it is getting a face lift. I am not sure if they are going to do a drastic change or if it will just be all corvettes getting a zr1 like front end that breathes better and maybe a few more intercoolers, or what the deal will be. He said that dealers lack inventory on c7 and zr1 as production has slowed down due to constraints on certain pieces and parts supplied.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
Last edited by NY09C6; 07-05-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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07-05-2018, 11:03 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
I was up at Laguna Seca last month when GM Powertrain showed up at the track. I got to talk to a few of the test drivers there that were driving 2 new ZR1's, 2 Stingrays, and 5 new Camaro's. They told me they were GM powertrain engineers and putting test miles on the engines. I asked them if they were testing a new version of the LT1 and they wouldn't say yes or no. They just smiled. I then said "You must be testing the new LT2". They still didn't respond though. I then told them that I was on the Corvette Forum and went by the name of Skank and that there were some on the forum that felt the front engined Corvette was going away and wouldn't be built anymore. One of the engineers just rolled his eyes and said "Oh ya sure, right uh hum right". Obviously making fun of the minority on this forum that think the FE Corvette is going away. I asked him if he reads the Corvette Forum and he said yes and that a lot of others read and enjoy the banter going on in the forum. I then asked them if they had read my Zerv List thread on the C8 forum and they clammed up and started to get a little nervous of me asking questions about the ME Zora. They then said "Well, we have to get going" and left.
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07-05-2018, 11:34 AM
#9
Pro
07-05-2018, 12:53 PM
#10
The latest rumor is that the FE Corvette will look like the original '67 but be a hybrid with 903 horsepower. It will also have 2 transmissions in each car to satisfy the automatic liking people and the folks that like a clutch. It won't be a Cadillac. One other touch an FM AM radio will be standard
Last edited by Walter Raulerson; 07-05-2018 at 12:57 PM.
07-05-2018, 01:11 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Walter Raulerson
The latest rumor is that the FE Corvette will look like the original '67 but be a hybrid with 903 horsepower. It will also have 2 transmissions in each car to satisfy the automatic liking people and the folks that like a clutch. It won't be a Cadillac. One other touch an FM AM radio will be standard
07-05-2018, 01:34 PM
#12
Which is exactly why the ME will start at well under $100k. 
The FE and ME Ferraris are aimed at different market segments....2 different types of buyers.
Me neither.
I really find it hard to believe all of this effort by GM is for producing a niche vehicle.
The FE and ME Ferraris are aimed at different market segments....2 different types of buyers.
I really find it hard to believe all of this effort by GM is for producing a niche vehicle.
Last edited by sunsalem; 07-05-2018 at 01:34 PM.
07-05-2018, 01:45 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
the way im understanding it more is that they are going to have 2 seperate cars... corvette is going to hold the front engine name, and all rear engine cars are going to be called zoras.
makes sense. Why not compete against yourself and let the public decide. Its like the 911 vs the panamera vs the boxter... same with ferrari and their different models. I think GM realizes they are stupid to build a one car fits all, when everyone else has no problem selling 3 different models and making money.
Chevy is going to compete with themselves and only if one model stops selling well, would they discontinue it.
So again, the C8 corvette will be the front engine. The mid engine is not a c8... its just a zora. So this forum will eventually have to change its layout once this is confirmed.
makes sense. Why not compete against yourself and let the public decide. Its like the 911 vs the panamera vs the boxter... same with ferrari and their different models. I think GM realizes they are stupid to build a one car fits all, when everyone else has no problem selling 3 different models and making money.
Chevy is going to compete with themselves and only if one model stops selling well, would they discontinue it.
So again, the C8 corvette will be the front engine. The mid engine is not a c8... its just a zora. So this forum will eventually have to change its layout once this is confirmed.
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07-05-2018, 06:53 PM
#14
Racer
07-05-2018, 07:44 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
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I find it interesting that people think ME cars have to be so much more expensive. They don't as evidenced by the MR2 and the Fiero.
07-05-2018, 08:03 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
07-05-2018, 09:05 PM
#17
The market just isn't big enough to sell all these cars into. Why would they do this? To take the ME up market in price/target? Against who? Porsche? McClaren? Ferrari? And what does that leave the core Corvette buyers with - "buy this slightly refreshed $70K car from us, because the car we invested all the development dollars in costs $110K now and we've priced you out of that market". Who is going to bite on that?
07-05-2018, 09:56 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
I just can't believe there are still folks out there that think that GM will build a FE C7 (technology that pre-dates 2013) and a ME car at the same (or close to) price, and expect to grow sales! Why would anyone buy the 'old' technology if they could get the latest and greatest for the same price??? Oh, I forgot..... there are still all those folks out there who long for round tail lamps and 3 pedals below the steering wheel. Come on..... wake up and get over it. There's going to be a freshened FE C7 AND a premium priced ME loaded with the latest technology.
Isn't it time to get a spot on the waiting list to get the last of the FE's, if that's the way you feel. Hmmmm….. I wonder why all those new C7 are collecting dust on the dealer's lots.
Isn't it time to get a spot on the waiting list to get the last of the FE's, if that's the way you feel. Hmmmm….. I wonder why all those new C7 are collecting dust on the dealer's lots.
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07-05-2018, 10:24 PM
#20
Safety Car
A friend of mine who is connected and is usually spot on with corvette predictions, said that his source told him that in 2021 model year, the front engine car is going to get a revamp. The mid engine will be released next year, as a 2020 model he said, but the front engine corvette is not going away, which I already believed, but he says it is getting a face lift. I am not sure if they are going to do a drastic change or if it will just be all corvettes getting a zr1 like front end that breathes better and maybe a few more intercoolers, or what the deal will be. He said that dealers lack inventory on c7 and zr1 as production has slowed down due to constraints on certain pieces and parts supplied.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
Curious if this 2021 new front engine body or car, was public knowledge already? First I have heard of it. I imagine they would start putting in the newer dohc motors into the front engine cars, if they are going to continue to make them, so it will be exciting. He went so far as to say, the C8 is what the 2021 front engine car will be called, and the mid engine will carry the name Zora.
Facts:
1) Production is at 40 hours per week, producing 116 vehicles per day. That translates to approximately 23,000 units per year; this is exactly balanced with the sales for the first half of the year (worldwide) X 2 (for the second half of the year). GM is therefore producing the correct amount of Corvettes to meet current sales. As Kai Spande said in a public presentation at the BASH, “we have rightsized production.”
2) There are no constraints at this time, nor have there been for many weeks for all SR’s, all GS’s and all Z06’s (exception a) colors being or already been phased out, and the two new 2019 colors being phased in, and b) the ZR1 being constrained to productionat the rate of 192 units/month due to being supplier limited in carbon fiber components.
3) Dealers do not lack inventory except for the ZR1. They can order tomorrow (Thursday, the start of the next consensus) as many SR’s, GS’s, and Z06’s as they want and all of those will be built in six weeks (some even actually arriving at dealers located closer to the Plant within that time period).
As to the projections about the future, I am staying out of that quagmire discussion.
Last edited by elegant; 07-05-2018 at 10:25 PM.
