Manual a thing of the past?
09-10-2018, 10:15 AM
#181
Melting Slicks
It makes it a little clumsy on very aggressive shifts, but you definitely know what gear you are in. Its fun as manuals are more engaging to drive then the click and shot of an automatic,
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-10-2018 at 05:21 PM.
09-10-2018, 10:20 AM
#182
I have always loved the look of the R8... especially if they stop building it..I see it as a classic...in the coming years.. bought a gnx 10 years ago and just covered it and put in garage never drive it... definitely see the R8 (if they cancel it) as a gnx is 20 plus years..if low mile, etc..
09-10-2018, 10:20 AM
#183
Melting Slicks
couple of regulatory points to consider. The corvette is still a relatively low volume sports car (35k or less generally). Chevy would have to certify both the auto and DCT or auto tranny which adds to the cost and parts bin.
When you have "full command" of the gear selection would you miss the clutch as much? I know that when something comes our way that makes changing clutches obsolete, gives a GREAT driving experience, AND is faster and affordable, I won't miss the clutch that much.
When you have "full command" of the gear selection would you miss the clutch as much? I know that when something comes our way that makes changing clutches obsolete, gives a GREAT driving experience, AND is faster and affordable, I won't miss the clutch that much.
Second, you don't have "full control". Those systems will first check to determine if it is an "acceptable selection" before doing it. Now, for the clumsy, that should help prevent money shifts, but that means it isn't "full control". Also, there is absolutely NOTHING that says a DCT system will not require clutch replacements. Unless it isn't a real DCT and is just a fast shifting automatic (translation, torque converter). Any place there is a friction material, there is wear.
09-10-2018, 10:26 AM
#184
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
The shift pattern is gated with a metal aluminum plate, throw back to vintage sports cars like Ferrari and others (shifts like a conventional manual the gate makes it a little challenging shifting fast) Jay Leno had one and loved it.
Selling her was a big mistake only 699 R8 produced USA/Canada for 2009 with less than 10% total R8 manuals. Combined manual and automatic of 7364 produced from 2007 to 2015. Looking for a clean low mile 2014/2015 V10 manual replacement. 2015 was the end of the manual R8 and this generation.
09-10-2018, 12:25 PM
#185
Race Director
I'm not silly enough to argue that DCT is the "same" as a manual, but silly to claim it is the "same" as a traditional slush box. It will not feel even remotely that way.
If I had to bet, the post right above yours has the numbers about right. 10% or so are die-hard "manual-only" types. They have eloquently explained why in this thread -- "involvement" and "pride" in executing a skillful task being the main drivers (I get it, after nearly 4 decades of enjoying the involvement, loving the direct, mechanical feel, and trying -- at a mediocre level -- to perfect my 3-pedal skills). 10% or so prefer a manual to a slush box (my wife and I would be examples; having not owned an automatic car of any type since 1980), but will welcome, and might prefer, a DCT.
SO: At most, I think the evidence is compelling that Corvette would be "walking away from" maybe 10% +- of their current customer base. And, opening up the door to the incresing number of enthusiasts of all ages who hate slushboxes and either love, or would be happy to try, DCTs. How many? Well look at Cayman/Boxster, Audi, VW, and maybe even a few exotic buyers. They would be conquests likely unreachable with a slushbox -- and uninterested in a manual.
If Vette does go DCT-only, it might be a mistake, but it will have been based on extensive and carefully analyzed market studies refecting cost/benefit of 2 different tranny types, and far less likely to be a mistake than your "static" analysis suggests...
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ByByBMW (09-10-2018)
09-10-2018, 01:23 PM
#186
Race Director
Im also driving manual corvettes and other sports cars for over 40 years and i would like my next corvette to have a dct.
that said..new buyers all the time line up and specifically want a manual transmission. As it stands 23 percent of all corvettes are manuals and thats with dealers for the most part ordering inventory that is automatic.
how many buyers of corvette c7 s are undecided one way or the other and if they had the chance would have taken a manual had it been on the lot.
we can only deal witn numbers as they actually exist...and that number is 23 percent of all corvette sales are manuals.
i do not believe any corporation or corporate executive is going to make the decision to ignore that large a customer market segment.
may not be at launch...for simplicity of production yet i believe just as mazda mx5,fiat 124, porsche boxster and cayman, 911, lotus all manage to offer both manual and automatic transmissions so too will corvette.
the camaro, mustang and challenger all offer both why wouldnt the corvette...
cost controls managed in all those vehicles mentioned above...why all of a sudden would the corvette team **** off 23 percent of its customer base who literally lays out the coin to purchase their product..
i just dont understand why this dct only thing has to exist for the corvette? A vehicle that has offered two transmissions for decades..
how does the engineering and cost become so difficult for the corvette team?
saving engineering funds? Hasnt been an issue in the last for corvette to have two transmissions so why now?
suppliers all would love to supply two transmissions instead of just the manual as has been done over the past few decades...
lets not forget the corvettes mission as a halo vehicle for the brand...
i cant tell you how many times over the past two decades people walk up to me...strangers who admire the vehicle and as they ask their questions about the inevitably they ask...”IS IT A STICK”?
when i say yes...i get huge accolades, high fives and big *** grins...
its part of the persona of what this american iconic sports car is ..
for the few dollars that the corvette team is used to spending generation after generation with suppliers and in government testing for two transmissions i really dont see why anyone assumes its dct only and the manual is history..
just doesnt make any sense from a business standpoint.
that said..new buyers all the time line up and specifically want a manual transmission. As it stands 23 percent of all corvettes are manuals and thats with dealers for the most part ordering inventory that is automatic.
how many buyers of corvette c7 s are undecided one way or the other and if they had the chance would have taken a manual had it been on the lot.
we can only deal witn numbers as they actually exist...and that number is 23 percent of all corvette sales are manuals.
i do not believe any corporation or corporate executive is going to make the decision to ignore that large a customer market segment.
may not be at launch...for simplicity of production yet i believe just as mazda mx5,fiat 124, porsche boxster and cayman, 911, lotus all manage to offer both manual and automatic transmissions so too will corvette.
the camaro, mustang and challenger all offer both why wouldnt the corvette...
cost controls managed in all those vehicles mentioned above...why all of a sudden would the corvette team **** off 23 percent of its customer base who literally lays out the coin to purchase their product..
i just dont understand why this dct only thing has to exist for the corvette? A vehicle that has offered two transmissions for decades..
how does the engineering and cost become so difficult for the corvette team?
saving engineering funds? Hasnt been an issue in the last for corvette to have two transmissions so why now?
suppliers all would love to supply two transmissions instead of just the manual as has been done over the past few decades...
lets not forget the corvettes mission as a halo vehicle for the brand...
i cant tell you how many times over the past two decades people walk up to me...strangers who admire the vehicle and as they ask their questions about the inevitably they ask...”IS IT A STICK”?
when i say yes...i get huge accolades, high fives and big *** grins...
its part of the persona of what this american iconic sports car is ..
for the few dollars that the corvette team is used to spending generation after generation with suppliers and in government testing for two transmissions i really dont see why anyone assumes its dct only and the manual is history..
just doesnt make any sense from a business standpoint.
Last edited by JerriVette; 09-10-2018 at 01:41 PM.
09-10-2018, 03:49 PM
#187
Race Director
^^^^^
I guess I did not make myself crystal clear. I'll be more pithy:
My bet is, and evidence certainly points that way, that 23% GREATLY exaggerates the customer segment GM would be "ignoring." I am surprised you keep going back (post after post after post) to a number which reflects the ABSENCE of one of the choices -- a choice the MARKET itself shows does attract customers that would not now consider a Corvette. AND you keep ignoring cost -- fixed (tooling and design) and variable (smaller numbers of each type of tranny from the suppliers suggests higher VC). I know you understand profit calculations.
I guess I did not make myself crystal clear. I'll be more pithy:
My bet is, and evidence certainly points that way, that 23% GREATLY exaggerates the customer segment GM would be "ignoring." I am surprised you keep going back (post after post after post) to a number which reflects the ABSENCE of one of the choices -- a choice the MARKET itself shows does attract customers that would not now consider a Corvette. AND you keep ignoring cost -- fixed (tooling and design) and variable (smaller numbers of each type of tranny from the suppliers suggests higher VC). I know you understand profit calculations.
09-10-2018, 05:24 PM
#189
Melting Slicks
I have always loved the look of the R8... especially if they stop building it..I see it as a classic...in the coming years.. bought a gnx 10 years ago and just covered it and put in garage never drive it... definitely see the R8 (if they cancel it) as a gnx is 20 plus years..if low mile, etc..
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-10-2018 at 05:26 PM.
09-13-2018, 10:13 AM
#190
Banned Scam/Spammer
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For Corvette, the DCT is only possible through economies of scale...there's a significant R&D cost developing one for the first time which needs to be spread out over many cars sold.
So I think the solution is to have the DCT be the default/included gearbox, and then charge extra for anyone that wants a manual (as an option). Most buyers will end up going with the DCT, achieving the high number of DCT cars to spread the R&D costs across.
So I think the solution is to have the DCT be the default/included gearbox, and then charge extra for anyone that wants a manual (as an option). Most buyers will end up going with the DCT, achieving the high number of DCT cars to spread the R&D costs across.
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bebezote (09-16-2018)
09-16-2018, 11:54 AM
#192
Melting Slicks
In days of yore, I hated stick shift. (THat I learned on an old Vega might have had something to do with it)
But when I started shopping for my first new car, I learned most autos were cost added option and stick was N/C.
THen I started working at a car place and got to drive lost of Nissan Z’s. Learned sticks were fun, and great in cars that actually had some go-power.
Several sticks and many years later, the year I bought my C5, the M6 was added cost, auto was “free”
I was kind of annoyed since prior experience said stick should be “free” but thats what I wanted, so I paid the cost.
Fast forward 15 years - IDK if auto was extra on the C7 - I didn’t even consider it, so I never looked.
Just told the dealer “Let me know when you get an M7, 2LT...”.
Call me a 20 percenter, hardcore, purist, whatever, but IMHO, at this point, if Mx is not available in C8 forward, not interested.
But when I started shopping for my first new car, I learned most autos were cost added option and stick was N/C.
THen I started working at a car place and got to drive lost of Nissan Z’s. Learned sticks were fun, and great in cars that actually had some go-power.
Several sticks and many years later, the year I bought my C5, the M6 was added cost, auto was “free”
I was kind of annoyed since prior experience said stick should be “free” but thats what I wanted, so I paid the cost.
Fast forward 15 years - IDK if auto was extra on the C7 - I didn’t even consider it, so I never looked.
Just told the dealer “Let me know when you get an M7, 2LT...”.
Call me a 20 percenter, hardcore, purist, whatever, but IMHO, at this point, if Mx is not available in C8 forward, not interested.
09-16-2018, 11:41 PM
#194
Le Mans Master
Apparently, manuals are not a thing of the past over at Porsche. The rumored Cayman GT4 will not only be offered with a manual, but rumor has it that it will be offered ONLY WITH A MANUAL!
"Power for the Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder is expected to come from a version of the naturally aspirated 4.0-liter flat-six found in the 911 GT3. A six-speed manual should remain as the only available transmission. "
https://www.motortrend.com/news/spie...oxster-spyder/
Love it! Bravo to Porsche!
"Power for the Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 and Boxster Spyder is expected to come from a version of the naturally aspirated 4.0-liter flat-six found in the 911 GT3. A six-speed manual should remain as the only available transmission. "
https://www.motortrend.com/news/spie...oxster-spyder/
Love it! Bravo to Porsche!
Last edited by Michael A; 09-16-2018 at 11:45 PM.
09-16-2018, 11:46 PM
#195
had alcantera in 2 cars... loved it so much.. I'll definitely pay upcharge if available... and even possibly have done in alcantera if not available...
we're not gonna live forever....gotta get what you want now..
09-17-2018, 08:12 AM
#196
Race Director
If camaro, challenger, mustang, can offer a manual transmission and an automatic whats all this nonsense that corvette is giving up on offering a manual as standard equipment..
just the fact gm gets to upcharge for the automatic makes the manual transmission worthwile to offer on the corvette as standard equipment.
old nursemaids on the intenret trolling the corvette community with Bullcrap stories
just the fact gm gets to upcharge for the automatic makes the manual transmission worthwile to offer on the corvette as standard equipment.
old nursemaids on the intenret trolling the corvette community with Bullcrap stories
