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Manual a thing of the past?

Old 07-09-2018, 03:08 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
I bet the majority of Corvette owners don't give a **** about how fast the transmission shifts.
I disagree. The majority of Corvette owners want fast shifting transmissions so they have something to talk/brag about while they wash them in the driveway after the once a month cruise down the block.

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Old 07-09-2018, 03:20 PM
  #42  
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Some of the replies to the OP's thread are just idiotic. I can't believe that folks talk about what is better, what Corvette "should " have, why new technology is "better". Don't you people realize that different strokes for different folks will never go out of style. Of course we all know that if you have a car, any car on a race track, a DCT is faster than a manual. However, most folks who own sports cars never track their cars. As for me, I own only one car at a time, my daily driver. Currently I own a 2016 C7 Z51 convertible, my 11th Vette,. I have owned you name it. Porsches, Ferrari's, Viper, BMW, Mercedes, and so on. All of my Vettes have been manuals, as were most other cars. My last Porsche had a PDK DTC. I only used the paddles: I never drove in full auto mode. I drive the canyons and twisties of So Cal often, and quite aggressively. I find paddle shifting DCT's boring. I totally enjoy manual shifting a 3 pedal car...EVEN IN LA TRAFFIC! But that's me. Other folks, maybe not. Why should I drive a DCT car just because it is the newer technology. Why should i own a self driving car when it is the newest thing on the block? Most speculation says that the ME C8 will not offer manual, but will offer a DCT. However, the latest issue of Motor Trend says that both will be offered. The bottom line is none of us know. But I do know this....about 4 years or so ago Porsche was seriously considering discontinuing the manual gear box in all cars except for the Cayman and Boxter. The negative feedback they received convinced them otherwise. Hopefully, Chevy will consider the fact that many of their customers still want a manual, and offer both manual and DCT boxes. I love mid engine cars, and look forward to buying the first year mid engine C8 ONLY if a manual is offered. If not, my next car will be either another front engine Vette or a Porsche. Different strokes.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:25 PM
  #43  
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Manual driver misses a shift: "I missed a gear"
Auto driver blames the trans: "Stupid trans wouldn't shift"

Manual wins race: "Damn good driving!"
Auto wins race: "Your car ran good!"
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:40 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Sub Driver View Post
I had a modified GTR that was relatively quick and was completely bored by the DCT. I always drove it in manual mode and, while it could shift quickly, it was just not very engaging. If you buy these cars for only the performance aspect then there is no question that a DCT is the way to go. For me, I buy them to have fun and I just did not enjoy a DCT as much as a manual so I sold it and got into another manual car. So, yes, there are those of us that have experienced high hp cars with a DCT and would still prefer a manual.
At 46, I feel like a dinosaur, cause I just have no interest in a DCT.

The cars all SO capable for street use that it's about having fun. Ditto for track days as well.

I guess I'm just not made for this generation of cars if the DCT is the only option.

GT3 or thereabouts, here I come if the C8 turns out not to offer a manny.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:04 PM
  #45  
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5 years later, this video is still relevant. Not everyone wants a car that does the work for them. We want the full reward and/or penalty associated with driving the car. Bragging about lap times without making the shifts? You didn't make those shifts, the car made the shifts for you.


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Old 07-09-2018, 06:26 PM
  #46  
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With any luck, it will be the option of a DCT vs a manual.

From what we’ve heard, GM already ordered a bunch of DCT’s for the car; this will cover the automatic guys. If the manual is an option, It will be a tough choice for me personally. I found myself several times play with the rev match paddles wishing it was a DCT car. . .

It will ultimately come down to if GM see’s money in it. 25-30% of the C7’s were manual cars. That’s a lot of customers to risk losing. However, the only way to get a manual in an ME car is to a push/pull cable setup which diminishes the feel of the shifter. I’d bet there would be a lot of complaints about that. . .
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:59 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Sub Driver View Post
I had a modified GTR that was relatively quick and was completely bored by the DCT. I always drove it in manual mode and, while it could shift quickly, it was just not very engaging. If you buy these cars for only the performance aspect then there is no question that a DCT is the way to go. For me, I buy them to have fun and I just did not enjoy a DCT as much as a manual so I sold it and got into another manual car. So, yes, there are those of us that have experienced high hp cars with a DCT and would still prefer a manual.
First I hope and think GM will eventually offer a manual ME if they can sell enough to be profitable. Manufacturing one trans now is less costly coming out of the gates for GM. Let’s not forget Porsche ate their pride and now makes the latest generation GT3 in a manual.

The GTR is an appliance most boring overweight car I have ever driven, have many previous owners I know echo my words.. The aftermarket company JoeTech are good friends of mine, I drove their fastest GTR. It’s fast and has incredible stats but not even close to a Ferrari,Lambo in DCT and steering feel. For those that get a chance to drive a modern day Ferrari with a DCT it’s unbelievable and I am a manual purest. I was so angry after driving a 458 Specials (4 plus hours) I sold my car the following week. Their that good which is why many of the car magazines even Top Gear guys say its one of their favorite brands. Selling my v8 R8 manual last year was tough and I can’t wait to replace it with a gated R8 V10 Manual.

I am not trying to change opinions about manuals verses DCT. But one thing we all need to know not all Dual clutch transmission are alike. If the new ME,s DCT is more like a GTR instead of a Ferrari, all I can say (Houston we have a problem)

Last edited by fasttoys; 07-10-2018 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:37 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by RandomTask View Post
With any luck, it will be the option of a DCT vs a manual.

From what weíve heard, GM already ordered a bunch of DCTís for the car; this will cover the automatic guys. If the manual is an option, It will be a tough choice for me personally. I found myself several times play with the rev match paddles wishing it was a DCT car. . .

It will ultimately come down to if GM seeís money in it. 25-30% of the C7ís were manual cars. Thatís a lot of customers to risk losing. However, the only way to get a manual in an ME car is to a push/pull cable setup which diminishes the feel of the shifter. Iíd bet there would be a lot of complaints about that. . .
I think the % would be much higher 50 to 60 for manuals if everyone ordered their Corvette. But the dealer had the color I wanted, they gave me such a good deal, the salesguy was so nice, I didn't want to wait, and ordering a car in the spring means delivery in the fall and on and on. As many reasons as buyers that settle for what's in front of them.
If GM can do this (see pic) I'm sure a little further back is possible! The Ferrari 360 didn't get many complaints about their push /pull setup
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:03 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by vetteman41960 View Post
Again if you DCT experience was in a VW or Cayman or similarly low power car I could completely understand why you may be underwhelmed by the experience .


If you a car guy and most likely you are as your on this forum all I can say is if you have not driven a late model Ferrari or late model Lamborghini that have power level similar to a Corvette but with a DCT you really owe it to yourself to drive one and do so while driving it as you would when hustling trough manual gear changes at a rapid pace I bet you would not be board but find the experience truly a blast.
.
Funny how that "low powered" Cayman S is faster than a Corvette Grand Sport.

I've driven a 911 GTS with PDK, which is likely to be as fast or faster than a base ME.. It's didn't change my mind at all. Still want the manual.

Last edited by Michael A; 07-11-2018 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:55 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by wilfie View Post
I think the % would be much higher 50 to 60 for manuals if everyone ordered their Corvette. But the dealer had the color I wanted, they gave me such a good deal, the salesguy was so nice, I didn't want to wait, and ordering a car in the spring means delivery in the fall and on and on. As many reasons as buyers that settle for what's in front of them.
If GM can do this (see pic) I'm sure a little further back is possible! The Ferrari 360 didn't get many complaints about their push /pull setup
If half the people walking into a Chevy showroom wanted a manual transmission Corvette, then the dealers would be stocking more manual transmission Corvettes. Dealers select transmissions, colors, trim packages, options, etc based on what their customers are looking to buy. They are not stocking what they personally want in a car, but what the majority of their customers want.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:45 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
I bet the majority of Corvette owners don't give a **** about how fast the transmission shifts.
Not necessarily true. There are tons of posts throughout the C6 AND C7 sections about how slow or sloppy our automatic transmissions shift. Chuck Cow, a forum vendor here on CF does a great business reprogramming transmissions to shift faster. I had him do one on my 2005 A4. That reprogram woke up that tranny. in a very good way. My 2012 is a nice, smooth shifting tranny but I would also describe it as lazy, even under full throttle acceleration.
So while I can't talk to a majority of the owners, there ere plenty who DO care about how fast the tranny shifts/

Last edited by ByByBMW; 07-11-2018 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:07 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by ByByBMW View Post
Not necessarily true. There are tons of posts throughout the C6 AND C7 sections about how slow or sloppy our automatic transmissions shift. Chuck Cow, a forum vendor here on CF does a great business reprogramming transmissions to shift faster. I had him do one on my 2005 A4. That reprogram woke up that tranny. in a very good way. My 2012 is a nice, smooth shifting tranny but I would also describe it as lazy, even under full throttle acceleration.
So while I can't talk to a majority of the owners, there ere plenty who DO care about how fast the tranny shifts/
They chose to have the car shift for them because they couldn't handle shifting duties and wanted to participate. Then, they realized the trans couldn't even shift as fast as a skilled driver with a manual transmission. Automatic trans owners are just early adopters of self-driving cars.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:35 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Turbo-Geist View Post
They chose to have the car shift for them because they couldn't handle shifting duties and wanted to participate. Then, they realized the trans couldn't even shift as fast as a skilled driver with a manual transmission. Automatic trans owners are just early adopters of self-driving cars.
I hope this was some sort of joke. My wife and I have not owned an automatic car since 1980, and yet I am 100% certain you could not be more wrong in your assessment of automatic tranny owners/drivers.

I canít wait to test drive a proper DCT Vette. If it performs as I expect, someday Iíll enjoy DRIVING it for years. If not, my manual C6 will do just fine...
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zrc3john View Post
Im hearing the C8 will only be offered in automatic......How true is this? I'm guessing it will be more accepted if its only paddle shifters...
Not like the present auto set up where you see the shift column of P R N D.......To me there is def something wrong when I see a Z06 or a ZR1 and you see P R N D.......Sacrilege......That's just me....
2019 GS has the manual tranny. I think it will still be around.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:42 PM
  #55  
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Was lucky enough to attend Ron Fellows driving school last year....Most of us chose the manual sting ray......

The way the road course was set up you were in third and fourth gear all the way around the road course....All the cars were equipped with track mode and rev match , pretty high tech stuff ....
If I had the automatic,
I guess it would take some practice for me ,when you are flooring it down the straight than having to brake, downshift than go into a long sweeping turn.....Of course I had to do all that , but having the manual just gave me the. feeling of being more in control...

I guess I'm so used to a manual ,and most tracks I would imagine you wouldn't have to go to 7th gear....

So it goes down to driver skill in my opinion ..

Last edited by zrc3john; 07-11-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:11 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Atomic Fred View Post


I hope this was some sort of joke. My wife and I have not owned an automatic car since 1980, and yet I am 100% certain you could not be more wrong in your assessment of automatic tranny owners/drivers.

I canít wait to test drive a proper DCT Vette. If it performs as I expect, someday Iíll enjoy DRIVING it for years. If not, my manual C6 will do just fine...
No, I'm actually very serious. I'm speaking in terms performance applications whether at a road course,drag strip, half mile race, etc. The majority of enthusiasts don't have what it takes to drive a car quickly and competitively during a race with a true manual transmission. It's laughable the amount of "driving aids" that cars are equipped with these days. This is includes not only street cars but the racers in professional motorsports also. There was a time when it took skill and practice to actually go fast at the track. Now there are cars available that shift for you (automatics), maintain traction (traction control), modulate the brakes (ABS), correct improper cornering (active handling) just to name a few.

I have no use for an automatic in a performance vehicle when pushing the car to the limit. I want to make the choices on what the car does regarding when it shifts, how the power is applied, what rpm the engine is turning on approach, do I want to launch at 2500 rpm or 5,000 rpm, will I wind it out to 7500 in fourth or grab 5th gear and sacrifice a few mph, etc.

I realize this is all preference and yes, you can enjoy driving (turning the steering wheel) in your future DCT vette but a computer will be making the shifts for you. However, it's a fact that it requires less skill to drive an automatic fast versus driving a manual just as fast.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:30 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Turbo-Geist View Post
No, I'm actually very serious. I'm speaking in terms performance applications whether at a road course,drag strip, half mile race, etc. The majority of enthusiasts don't have what it takes to drive a car quickly and competitively during a race with a true manual transmission. It's laughable the amount of "driving aids" that cars are equipped with these days. This is includes not only street cars but the racers in professional motorsports also. There was a time when it took skill and practice to actually go fast at the track. Now there are cars available that shift for you (automatics), maintain traction (traction control), modulate the brakes (ABS), correct improper cornering (active handling) just to name a few.

I have no use for an automatic in a performance vehicle when pushing the car to the limit. I want to make the choices on what the car does regarding when it shifts, how the power is applied, what rpm the engine is turning on approach, do I want to launch at 2500 rpm or 5,000 rpm, will I wind it out to 7500 in fourth or grab 5th gear and sacrifice a few mph, etc.

I realize this is all preference and yes, you can enjoy driving (turning the steering wheel) in your future DCT vette but a computer will be making the shifts for you. However, it's a fact that it requires less skill to drive an automatic fast versus driving a manual just as fast.
Your reply to my earlier post was condescending. This post I am quoting now is better.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.

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Old 07-12-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ByByBMW
Your reply to my earlier post was condescending. This post I am quoting now is better.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
Except it is a completely different experience from a three pedal car and provides no satisfaction for those of us who enjoy driving a manual. The speed of the shift has nothing to do with it for me. I even find the DCT is more enjoyable left in auto than playing with the paddles.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ByByBMW View Post
Your reply to my earlier post was condescending. This post I am quoting now is better.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
As mentioned by NY09C6, you are sadly mistaken if you think toggling flappy paddles is the same thing as placing an h-pattern shifter in the correct gear while using your left foot to actuate the clutch pedal and also handling steering, braking, and throttle inputs simultaneously. This is where the advanced skill levels that make driving a manual fast much more rewarding than having a computer do those things for you.

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Old 07-12-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbo-Geist View Post
As mentioned by NY09C6, you are sadly mistaken if you think toggling flappy paddles is the same thing as placing an h-pattern shifter in the correct gear while using your left foot to actuate the clutch pedal and also handling steering, braking, and throttle inputs simultaneously. This is where the advanced skill levels that make driving a manual fast much more rewarding than having a computer do those things for you.
Luckily, your opinion doesn't matter to me in the least. I do understand the skill it takes since I have owned clutch pedal cars, including a 2008 Z06. I did enjoy the skill that I had to use to shift that car to get the most out of it. But as I age, and the body rebels, I found I can get just as much pleasure "toggling flappy paddles" and guess what, I'm still getting just as much thrill as I did with the three pedal cars. Maybe even more as I enjoy the times I don't HAVE to utilize that skill. Times like driving the 405 freeway in S. CA. for example. Lastly, I am not practicing to be a superior race car driver, rather I just enjoy driving high performance cars at a level I am comfortable with. I have found with age that there are a number of "skills" that I don't need, or want, anymore. Manual shifting has dropped off my radar as a fun way to drive MY cars.
Sadly mistaken? That's just your opinion. You are sadly mistaken if you think that shifting an H-paddle shifter makes you a better driver, or makes it more rewarding, than folks who don't care about them anymore.
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