Manual a thing of the past?
#41
Melting Slicks
#42
Some of the replies to the OP's thread are just idiotic. I can't believe that folks talk about what is better, what Corvette "should " have, why new technology is "better". Don't you people realize that different strokes for different folks will never go out of style. Of course we all know that if you have a car, any car on a race track, a DCT is faster than a manual. However, most folks who own sports cars never track their cars. As for me, I own only one car at a time, my daily driver. Currently I own a 2016 C7 Z51 convertible, my 11th Vette,. I have owned you name it. Porsches, Ferrari's, Viper, BMW, Mercedes, and so on. All of my Vettes have been manuals, as were most other cars. My last Porsche had a PDK DTC. I only used the paddles: I never drove in full auto mode. I drive the canyons and twisties of So Cal often, and quite aggressively. I find paddle shifting DCT's boring. I totally enjoy manual shifting a 3 pedal car...EVEN IN LA TRAFFIC! But that's me. Other folks, maybe not. Why should I drive a DCT car just because it is the newer technology. Why should i own a self driving car when it is the newest thing on the block? Most speculation says that the ME C8 will not offer manual, but will offer a DCT. However, the latest issue of Motor Trend says that both will be offered. The bottom line is none of us know. But I do know this....about 4 years or so ago Porsche was seriously considering discontinuing the manual gear box in all cars except for the Cayman and Boxter. The negative feedback they received convinced them otherwise. Hopefully, Chevy will consider the fact that many of their customers still want a manual, and offer both manual and DCT boxes. I love mid engine cars, and look forward to buying the first year mid engine C8 ONLY if a manual is offered. If not, my next car will be either another front engine Vette or a Porsche. Different strokes.
#43
Melting Slicks
Manual driver misses a shift: "I missed a gear"
Auto driver blames the trans: "Stupid trans wouldn't shift"
Manual wins race: "Damn good driving!"
Auto wins race: "Your car ran good!"
Auto driver blames the trans: "Stupid trans wouldn't shift"
Manual wins race: "Damn good driving!"
Auto wins race: "Your car ran good!"
#44
Le Mans Master
I had a modified GTR that was relatively quick and was completely bored by the DCT. I always drove it in manual mode and, while it could shift quickly, it was just not very engaging. If you buy these cars for only the performance aspect then there is no question that a DCT is the way to go. For me, I buy them to have fun and I just did not enjoy a DCT as much as a manual so I sold it and got into another manual car. So, yes, there are those of us that have experienced high hp cars with a DCT and would still prefer a manual.
The cars all SO capable for street use that it's about having fun. Ditto for track days as well.
I guess I'm just not made for this generation of cars if the DCT is the only option.
GT3 or thereabouts, here I come if the C8 turns out not to offer a manny.
#45
Melting Slicks
5 years later, this video is still relevant. Not everyone wants a car that does the work for them. We want the full reward and/or penalty associated with driving the car. Bragging about lap times without making the shifts? You didn't make those shifts, the car made the shifts for you.
Last edited by Turbo-Geist; 07-09-2018 at 03:09 PM.
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#46
Race Director
With any luck, it will be the option of a DCT vs a manual.
From what we’ve heard, GM already ordered a bunch of DCT’s for the car; this will cover the automatic guys. If the manual is an option, It will be a tough choice for me personally. I found myself several times play with the rev match paddles wishing it was a DCT car. . .
It will ultimately come down to if GM see’s money in it. 25-30% of the C7’s were manual cars. That’s a lot of customers to risk losing. However, the only way to get a manual in an ME car is to a push/pull cable setup which diminishes the feel of the shifter. I’d bet there would be a lot of complaints about that. . .
From what we’ve heard, GM already ordered a bunch of DCT’s for the car; this will cover the automatic guys. If the manual is an option, It will be a tough choice for me personally. I found myself several times play with the rev match paddles wishing it was a DCT car. . .
It will ultimately come down to if GM see’s money in it. 25-30% of the C7’s were manual cars. That’s a lot of customers to risk losing. However, the only way to get a manual in an ME car is to a push/pull cable setup which diminishes the feel of the shifter. I’d bet there would be a lot of complaints about that. . .
#47
Melting Slicks
I had a modified GTR that was relatively quick and was completely bored by the DCT. I always drove it in manual mode and, while it could shift quickly, it was just not very engaging. If you buy these cars for only the performance aspect then there is no question that a DCT is the way to go. For me, I buy them to have fun and I just did not enjoy a DCT as much as a manual so I sold it and got into another manual car. So, yes, there are those of us that have experienced high hp cars with a DCT and would still prefer a manual.
The GTR is an appliance most boring overweight car I have ever driven, have many previous owners I know echo my words.. The aftermarket company JoeTech are good friends of mine, I drove their fastest GTR. It’s fast and has incredible stats but not even close to a Ferrari,Lambo in DCT and steering feel. For those that get a chance to drive a modern day Ferrari with a DCT it’s unbelievable and I am a manual purest. I was so angry after driving a 458 Specials (4 plus hours) I sold my car the following week. Their that good which is why many of the car magazines even Top Gear guys say its one of their favorite brands. Selling my v8 R8 manual last year was tough and I can’t wait to replace it with a gated R8 V10 Manual.
I am not trying to change opinions about manuals verses DCT. But one thing we all need to know not all Dual clutch transmission are alike. If the new ME,s DCT is more like a GTR instead of a Ferrari, all I can say (Houston we have a problem)
Last edited by fasttoys; 07-10-2018 at 11:34 AM.
#48
With any luck, it will be the option of a DCT vs a manual.
From what we’ve heard, GM already ordered a bunch of DCT’s for the car; this will cover the automatic guys. If the manual is an option, It will be a tough choice for me personally. I found myself several times play with the rev match paddles wishing it was a DCT car. . .
It will ultimately come down to if GM see’s money in it. 25-30% of the C7’s were manual cars. That’s a lot of customers to risk losing. However, the only way to get a manual in an ME car is to a push/pull cable setup which diminishes the feel of the shifter. I’d bet there would be a lot of complaints about that. . .
From what we’ve heard, GM already ordered a bunch of DCT’s for the car; this will cover the automatic guys. If the manual is an option, It will be a tough choice for me personally. I found myself several times play with the rev match paddles wishing it was a DCT car. . .
It will ultimately come down to if GM see’s money in it. 25-30% of the C7’s were manual cars. That’s a lot of customers to risk losing. However, the only way to get a manual in an ME car is to a push/pull cable setup which diminishes the feel of the shifter. I’d bet there would be a lot of complaints about that. . .
If GM can do this (see pic) I'm sure a little further back is possible! The Ferrari 360 didn't get many complaints about their push /pull setup
#49
Le Mans Master
Again if you DCT experience was in a VW or Cayman or similarly low power car I could completely understand why you may be underwhelmed by the experience .
If you a car guy and most likely you are as your on this forum all I can say is if you have not driven a late model Ferrari or late model Lamborghini that have power level similar to a Corvette but with a DCT you really owe it to yourself to drive one and do so while driving it as you would when hustling trough manual gear changes at a rapid pace I bet you would not be board but find the experience truly a blast.
.
If you a car guy and most likely you are as your on this forum all I can say is if you have not driven a late model Ferrari or late model Lamborghini that have power level similar to a Corvette but with a DCT you really owe it to yourself to drive one and do so while driving it as you would when hustling trough manual gear changes at a rapid pace I bet you would not be board but find the experience truly a blast.
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I've driven a 911 GTS with PDK, which is likely to be as fast or faster than a base ME.. It's didn't change my mind at all. Still want the manual.
Last edited by Michael A; 07-10-2018 at 11:05 PM.
#50
Team Owner
I think the % would be much higher 50 to 60 for manuals if everyone ordered their Corvette. But the dealer had the color I wanted, they gave me such a good deal, the salesguy was so nice, I didn't want to wait, and ordering a car in the spring means delivery in the fall and on and on. As many reasons as buyers that settle for what's in front of them.
If GM can do this (see pic) I'm sure a little further back is possible! The Ferrari 360 didn't get many complaints about their push /pull setup
If GM can do this (see pic) I'm sure a little further back is possible! The Ferrari 360 didn't get many complaints about their push /pull setup
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ByByBMW (07-11-2018)
#51
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
So while I can't talk to a majority of the owners, there ere plenty who DO care about how fast the tranny shifts/
Last edited by ByByBMW; 07-11-2018 at 09:52 AM.
#52
Melting Slicks
Not necessarily true. There are tons of posts throughout the C6 AND C7 sections about how slow or sloppy our automatic transmissions shift. Chuck Cow, a forum vendor here on CF does a great business reprogramming transmissions to shift faster. I had him do one on my 2005 A4. That reprogram woke up that tranny. in a very good way. My 2012 is a nice, smooth shifting tranny but I would also describe it as lazy, even under full throttle acceleration.
So while I can't talk to a majority of the owners, there ere plenty who DO care about how fast the tranny shifts/
So while I can't talk to a majority of the owners, there ere plenty who DO care about how fast the tranny shifts/
#53
Race Director
They chose to have the car shift for them because they couldn't handle shifting duties and wanted to participate. Then, they realized the trans couldn't even shift as fast as a skilled driver with a manual transmission. Automatic trans owners are just early adopters of self-driving cars.
I can’t wait to test drive a proper DCT Vette. If it performs as I expect, someday I’ll enjoy DRIVING it for years. If not, my manual C6 will do just fine...
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ByByBMW (07-11-2018)
#54
Racer
Im hearing the C8 will only be offered in automatic......How true is this? I'm guessing it will be more accepted if its only paddle shifters...
Not like the present auto set up where you see the shift column of P R N D.......To me there is def something wrong when I see a Z06 or a ZR1 and you see P R N D.......Sacrilege......That's just me....
Not like the present auto set up where you see the shift column of P R N D.......To me there is def something wrong when I see a Z06 or a ZR1 and you see P R N D.......Sacrilege......That's just me....
#55
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Was lucky enough to attend Ron Fellows driving school last year....Most of us chose the manual sting ray......
The way the road course was set up you were in third and fourth gear all the way around the road course....All the cars were equipped with track mode and rev match , pretty high tech stuff ....
If I had the automatic,
I guess it would take some practice for me ,when you are flooring it down the straight than having to brake, downshift than go into a long sweeping turn.....Of course I had to do all that , but having the manual just gave me the. feeling of being more in control...
I guess I'm so used to a manual ,and most tracks I would imagine you wouldn't have to go to 7th gear....
So it goes down to driver skill in my opinion ..
The way the road course was set up you were in third and fourth gear all the way around the road course....All the cars were equipped with track mode and rev match , pretty high tech stuff ....
If I had the automatic,
I guess it would take some practice for me ,when you are flooring it down the straight than having to brake, downshift than go into a long sweeping turn.....Of course I had to do all that , but having the manual just gave me the. feeling of being more in control...
I guess I'm so used to a manual ,and most tracks I would imagine you wouldn't have to go to 7th gear....
So it goes down to driver skill in my opinion ..
Last edited by zrc3john; 07-11-2018 at 03:45 PM.
#56
Melting Slicks
I hope this was some sort of joke. My wife and I have not owned an automatic car since 1980, and yet I am 100% certain you could not be more wrong in your assessment of automatic tranny owners/drivers.
I can’t wait to test drive a proper DCT Vette. If it performs as I expect, someday I’ll enjoy DRIVING it for years. If not, my manual C6 will do just fine...
I have no use for an automatic in a performance vehicle when pushing the car to the limit. I want to make the choices on what the car does regarding when it shifts, how the power is applied, what rpm the engine is turning on approach, do I want to launch at 2500 rpm or 5,000 rpm, will I wind it out to 7500 in fourth or grab 5th gear and sacrifice a few mph, etc.
I realize this is all preference and yes, you can enjoy driving (turning the steering wheel) in your future DCT vette but a computer will be making the shifts for you. However, it's a fact that it requires less skill to drive an automatic fast versus driving a manual just as fast.
#57
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No, I'm actually very serious. I'm speaking in terms performance applications whether at a road course,drag strip, half mile race, etc. The majority of enthusiasts don't have what it takes to drive a car quickly and competitively during a race with a true manual transmission. It's laughable the amount of "driving aids" that cars are equipped with these days. This is includes not only street cars but the racers in professional motorsports also. There was a time when it took skill and practice to actually go fast at the track. Now there are cars available that shift for you (automatics), maintain traction (traction control), modulate the brakes (ABS), correct improper cornering (active handling) just to name a few.
I have no use for an automatic in a performance vehicle when pushing the car to the limit. I want to make the choices on what the car does regarding when it shifts, how the power is applied, what rpm the engine is turning on approach, do I want to launch at 2500 rpm or 5,000 rpm, will I wind it out to 7500 in fourth or grab 5th gear and sacrifice a few mph, etc.
I realize this is all preference and yes, you can enjoy driving (turning the steering wheel) in your future DCT vette but a computer will be making the shifts for you. However, it's a fact that it requires less skill to drive an automatic fast versus driving a manual just as fast.
I have no use for an automatic in a performance vehicle when pushing the car to the limit. I want to make the choices on what the car does regarding when it shifts, how the power is applied, what rpm the engine is turning on approach, do I want to launch at 2500 rpm or 5,000 rpm, will I wind it out to 7500 in fourth or grab 5th gear and sacrifice a few mph, etc.
I realize this is all preference and yes, you can enjoy driving (turning the steering wheel) in your future DCT vette but a computer will be making the shifts for you. However, it's a fact that it requires less skill to drive an automatic fast versus driving a manual just as fast.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
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#58
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by ByByBMW
Your reply to my earlier post was condescending. This post I am quoting now is better.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
#59
Melting Slicks
Your reply to my earlier post was condescending. This post I am quoting now is better.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
To keep this simple, I'll just say your choices are yours and mine are mine. Owning a Porsche with a PDK has opened my eyes. So what if I don't have a clutch pedal? I can still drive my "automatic" transmission in purely manual mode where I CAN decide when to select a gear, at what time, and under what conditions I want to shift. It's no different than the three pedal car, it's just done a different way.
Last edited by Turbo-Geist; 07-12-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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#60
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
As mentioned by NY09C6, you are sadly mistaken if you think toggling flappy paddles is the same thing as placing an h-pattern shifter in the correct gear while using your left foot to actuate the clutch pedal and also handling steering, braking, and throttle inputs simultaneously. This is where the advanced skill levels that make driving a manual fast much more rewarding than having a computer do those things for you.
Sadly mistaken? That's just your opinion. You are sadly mistaken if you think that shifting an H-paddle shifter makes you a better driver, or makes it more rewarding, than folks who don't care about them anymore.
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