Manual a thing of the past?
#81
Le Mans Master
NONSENSE........ While a fully automatic C6 upshifts extremely well for what it is.... In AUTO or PADDLE mode, and fantastically better after I've tuned it up....
Don't think that you or any real professional "DRIVER / "SHIFTER" can out SHIFT a C7 with a proper tune.... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
And that is why GM isn't going to make a stick any more..... Now-a-days.... You CAN'T out do the computer and for those of you who think you're AMAZING
stick shifters.... All you're doing is grinding and breaking 100 year old technology synchronized manual transmissions into bits so your car can come off the
road sooner to have major repairs made......Again, REGARDLESS of how good of a "shifter" you think you are..... the antiquated synchros are like aggressive
race brake pads destroying your rotors with every touch of the pedal..... While the new Automatics will last way longer, shift faster, and win more races.....
That's why there will be not more sticks.... it's 100+ year old silly stuff.
NOW, I wouldn't want an AUTOMATIC C2 or C3 Corvette..... but again, the automatics are sooo far advanced now you're insane no to have one.
You can't even buy a stick shift truck any more either..... cause they fall apart prematurely..... OLD SCHOOL STUFF.....
Chuck CoW
Don't think that you or any real professional "DRIVER / "SHIFTER" can out SHIFT a C7 with a proper tune.... IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
And that is why GM isn't going to make a stick any more..... Now-a-days.... You CAN'T out do the computer and for those of you who think you're AMAZING
stick shifters.... All you're doing is grinding and breaking 100 year old technology synchronized manual transmissions into bits so your car can come off the
road sooner to have major repairs made......Again, REGARDLESS of how good of a "shifter" you think you are..... the antiquated synchros are like aggressive
race brake pads destroying your rotors with every touch of the pedal..... While the new Automatics will last way longer, shift faster, and win more races.....
That's why there will be not more sticks.... it's 100+ year old silly stuff.
NOW, I wouldn't want an AUTOMATIC C2 or C3 Corvette..... but again, the automatics are sooo far advanced now you're insane no to have one.
You can't even buy a stick shift truck any more either..... cause they fall apart prematurely..... OLD SCHOOL STUFF.....
Chuck CoW
#82
Team Owner
There are several manufacturers that only have a DCT transmission available in their Sports cars", such as the AMG GT, Acura NSX and the Aston Martin.
I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
It appears that not every manufacturer is sold on mid engine sports cars with manual transmissions.
Of course, we also know that Acura totally mis-read the market for a mid engine hybrid sports car. I'm sure that when they were developing the New NSX, that they never thought there was only a market for 5 or 6 a month in sales in the USA. Their original sales forecast was for approximately 2,000 cars annually, with 90% of the cars for the USA and 10% of them for Japan.
I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
It appears that not every manufacturer is sold on mid engine sports cars with manual transmissions.
Of course, we also know that Acura totally mis-read the market for a mid engine hybrid sports car. I'm sure that when they were developing the New NSX, that they never thought there was only a market for 5 or 6 a month in sales in the USA. Their original sales forecast was for approximately 2,000 cars annually, with 90% of the cars for the USA and 10% of them for Japan.
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-17-2018 at 11:10 AM.
#83
Le Mans Master
There are several manufacturers that only have a DCT transmission available in their Sports cars", such as the AMG GT, Acura NSX and the Aston Martin.
I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
It appears that not every manufacturer is sold on mid engine sports cars with manual transmissions.
Of course, we also know that Acura totally mis-read the market for a mid engine hybrid sports car. I'm sure that when they were developing the New NSX, that they never thought there was only a market for 5 or 6 a month in sales in the USA. Their original sales forecast was for approximately 2,000 cars annually, with 90% of the cars for the USA and 10% of them for Japan.
I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
It appears that not every manufacturer is sold on mid engine sports cars with manual transmissions.
Of course, we also know that Acura totally mis-read the market for a mid engine hybrid sports car. I'm sure that when they were developing the New NSX, that they never thought there was only a market for 5 or 6 a month in sales in the USA. Their original sales forecast was for approximately 2,000 cars annually, with 90% of the cars for the USA and 10% of them for Japan.
#84
Team Owner
I knew that the vantage had a ZF auto as their only transmission with a purposed manual transmission for release down the road, but I wasn't aware that you could walk into their showroom and buy one off the floor today. Are you sure you can?
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-17-2018 at 11:31 AM.
#85
Le Mans Master
Oops the new vantage eliminated the stick. If I recall correctly the AM website listed a stick for the vantage vert in 2017
Last edited by Corgidog1; 07-17-2018 at 11:29 AM.
#86
Le Mans Master
{And yes I have known that slush boxes have internal clutch packs for at least 45 years; and that moden slush boxes have a lock up clutch.}
#87
Safety Car
I would guess you never did slot cars as a kid, or RC Cars today. Tuning with electric cars is very possible with electric cars. People used to rewind the motors in slot cars to make them faster. In RC cars today, electric is the hot setup. There are many choices of replacement electric motors. Also controllers can be replaced to allow more voltage and amperage. Also the controller may control how quickly voltage/current is ramped up to control the violence of acceleration. That could also be "tuned".
All that said, I am not suggesting the Corvette will go all electric anytime soon.
All that said, I am not suggesting the Corvette will go all electric anytime soon.
You couldn't force me to enjoy tossing a Tesla on track, or rather it let it toss itself. It will be something one would try once, and if they want do maybe do it a second time at most, they'll just buy the newer model.
We're transitioning to a society that uses cars to go from A to B, or might not even use cars that much.
#88
So, under this definition, if somebody had a 3 pedal manual, and hooked up some servo motors so that the clutch and transmission would shift all by themseelves, then that manual transmission would suddenly become an automatic !?!
{And yes I have known that slush boxes have internal clutch packs for at least 45 years; and that moden slush boxes have a lock up clutch.}
{And yes I have known that slush boxes have internal clutch packs for at least 45 years; and that moden slush boxes have a lock up clutch.}
there are many types of automatics
#89
Racer
Nah. You show me a car, I'll show you someone who can make it faster. That will never change.
#90
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by MitchAlsup
So, under this definition, if somebody had a 3 pedal manual, and hooked up some servo motors so that the clutch and transmission would shift all by themseelves, then that manual transmission would suddenly become an automatic !?!
{And yes I have known that slush boxes have internal clutch packs for at least 45 years; and that moden slush boxes have a lock up clutch.}
{And yes I have known that slush boxes have internal clutch packs for at least 45 years; and that moden slush boxes have a lock up clutch.}
Last edited by NY09C6; 07-17-2018 at 10:36 PM.
#92
Banned Scam/Spammer
Member Since: Sep 2016
Location: Philadelphia PA (Birthplace of the USA, UNESCO World Heritage City)
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I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
#93
Team Owner
Read the article again. The Supra race car is 591hp; the street car will only have around 335hp: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/
I see in a later article, that there will be a 261 HP 2.0L 4 banger and a 335 HP 3.0L six. That article also states that the Supra will only have a ZF automatic, and the BMW version will have a manual transmission.
Will the 591 HP engine ONLY be available in a "race car" built by Toyota that is illegal to license for the street?
Hard to believe that Toyota would underpower a new sports car by so much. But then I see the 2019 Audi TT will have a 197 HP 2L and a 245 High Output version, and the TTS will have 306 HP. I doubt that those cars will be stealing any Corvette owners.
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-18-2018 at 10:49 AM.
#94
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I dunno. The Boxster and Cayman seem to have a strong pull with Corvette owners/buyers. And they've now got at least one version with a 4 cyl. On review, it could be the only engine they've got but it is 300 or so HP.
Last edited by AORoads; 07-18-2018 at 12:43 PM.
#95
Racer
Disclaimer: I haven't read some of the posts in this thread, so I apologize if I repeat something that has been said ad-nauseam
technically, we're talking about three transmissions...
There is the manual transmission we all know and love. Three pedals and a shifter
The Automatic transmission we like to call a "slushbox." That has a torque converter and a series of clutch packs.
And there is what's known as the DCT, SMG, SMT, etc.
That is a "manual" (meaning gears, synchros, and forks) transmission that uses an electronically actuated clutch (not all have dual clutches, btw) and, it will also shift automatically if you prefer.
Today's full automatics (the 8 speed in the Challenger Hellcat, for example) can shift lightning fast. Much faster, in fact, and even the best Manual. As a matter of fact, the time it takes to shift gears in the new automatics would give most DCTs a run for their money. A manual transmission Hellcat gives up something like .5 seconds to an automatic in the 1/4 mile. They can be paddle-shifted like DCTs and generally work just as well as DCTs.
And like DCTs...I loathe them.
Give me a clutch any day. I like feeling connected to the car I'm driving. Yeah...it can be a pain in the *** in heavy traffic, but to me, it's a small price to pay.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that, in high end performance cars, at least, we are seeing the beginning of the end of the clutch pedal.
technically, we're talking about three transmissions...
There is the manual transmission we all know and love. Three pedals and a shifter
The Automatic transmission we like to call a "slushbox." That has a torque converter and a series of clutch packs.
And there is what's known as the DCT, SMG, SMT, etc.
That is a "manual" (meaning gears, synchros, and forks) transmission that uses an electronically actuated clutch (not all have dual clutches, btw) and, it will also shift automatically if you prefer.
Today's full automatics (the 8 speed in the Challenger Hellcat, for example) can shift lightning fast. Much faster, in fact, and even the best Manual. As a matter of fact, the time it takes to shift gears in the new automatics would give most DCTs a run for their money. A manual transmission Hellcat gives up something like .5 seconds to an automatic in the 1/4 mile. They can be paddle-shifted like DCTs and generally work just as well as DCTs.
And like DCTs...I loathe them.
Give me a clutch any day. I like feeling connected to the car I'm driving. Yeah...it can be a pain in the *** in heavy traffic, but to me, it's a small price to pay.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that, in high end performance cars, at least, we are seeing the beginning of the end of the clutch pedal.
Last edited by 70RT440; 07-18-2018 at 12:57 PM.
#96
Team Owner
While the Cayman base has a 300 HP turbo 4 banger, the Cayman GTS has a 365 HP turbo 4 banger, but only weighs 3032 pounds with the manual transmission, and 3098 pounds with the PDK transmission(DCT).
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-18-2018 at 01:21 PM.
#97
Safety Car
It will change. It will take you much longer to find a person who is into cars. Tuning is a big market now, if it dwindles down to 1% of what it is I call that as good as gone. I had to sign petitions to help prevent governing bodies from outlawing aftermarket parts. It matters how many sigs you get.
#98
Race Director
All the more reason to keep our old cars running. Manual transmissions, like internal combustion engines are going away. At least in new cars. I wonder if cars with internal combustion engines will still be available in 30 years?
#99
Safety Car
I'm guessing yes with special permit and off-public roads only. It will be a rich man sport. If electric prevails the government will want everyone to switch to it and there will be strong disincentives to burn fossil fuels.