Manual a thing of the past?
08-19-2018, 10:03 PM
#141
Well there a 1st time for everything. I don't every recall any car enthusiasts or review refer to the Ferrari 458 as garbage. Which someone had let me know before I fell in love with the car.
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08-19-2018, 10:23 PM
#142
no joke bro... 458 very slick ride...
this forum can remind some people why a skateboarder smashed his wheels into a mclaren... there is a different state of mind in some. gb3000
08-20-2018, 08:12 AM
#143
Racer
08-21-2018, 11:40 AM
#144
Melting Slicks
First I hope and think GM will eventually offer a manual ME if they can sell enough to be profitable. Manufacturing one trans now is less costly coming out of the gates for GM. Let’s not forget Porsche ate their pride and now makes the latest generation GT3 in a manual.
The GTR is an appliance most boring overweight car I have ever driven, have many previous owners I know echo my words.. The aftermarket company JoeTech are good friends of mine, I drove their fastest GTR. It’s fast and has incredible stats but not even close to a Ferrari,Lambo in DCT and steering feel. For those that get a chance to drive a modern day Ferrari with a DCT it’s unbelievable and I am a manual purest. I was so angry after driving a 458 Specials (4 plus hours) I sold my car the following week. Their that good which is why many of the car magazines even Top Gear guys say its one of their favorite brands. Selling my v8 R8 manual last year was tough and I can’t wait to replace it with a gated R8 V10 Manual.
I am not trying to change opinions about manuals verses DCT. But one thing we all need to know not all Dual clutch transmission are alike. If the new ME,s DCT is more like a GTR instead of a Ferrari, all I can say (Houston we have a problem)
08-21-2018, 01:28 PM
#145
A GM engineer recently told me the reason the C8 will not have a manual trans is because over the past few years only 2-3% of Vettes produced have a manual trans. This was a big surprise to me as I always thought it was 25%. I was also told in a few years the C8 will replace the front engine car. The base C8 will be priced around $60K. Future Z06 and ZR1 versions will be priced higher. I hope when the C8 comes out the price of the current ZR1 will come down. Would like to trade my 2017 Grand Sport for one. Won't buy a C8 as I must have a manual trans.
08-21-2018, 02:06 PM
#146
Banned Scam/Spammer
A GM engineer recently told me the reason the C8 will not have a manual trans is because over the past few years only 2-3% of Vettes produced have a manual trans. This was a big surprise to me as I always thought it was 25%. I was also told in a few years the C8 will replace the front engine car. The base C8 will be priced around $60K. Future Z06 and ZR1 versions will be priced higher. I hope when the C8 comes out the price of the current ZR1 will come down. Would like to trade my 2017 Grand Sport for one. Won't buy a C8 as I must have a manual trans.
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2016-...bers-released/
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2017-...orvette-stats/
08-22-2018, 02:09 PM
#147
False. Its funny how some people spout completely wrong information that is so easily refuted. Both in 2016 and 2017 the production of manual cars was 23% of the total. I wouldn't believe a word out of this "GM engineer's" mouth if he got that so wrong.
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2016-...bers-released/
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2017-...orvette-stats/
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2016-...bers-released/
https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2017-...orvette-stats/
Last edited by TJC333; 08-22-2018 at 02:13 PM.
08-22-2018, 03:05 PM
#148
Yes but only if it includes the outside crank handle to start the car, no need for a starter to interfere with the entire 'driving experience'........
08-22-2018, 03:32 PM
#149
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2004
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Thanks for this info. I didn't think the 2-3% was right. This makes me optimistic that GM will eventually offer the C8 with a manual trans. If the C8 replaces the front engine car but they don't offer a manual then GM would lose 23% of their sales. Can't believe they are willing to do that.
08-22-2018, 03:51 PM
#150
Advanced
I've been a member of the Church of the 3rd pedal for 25 years of driving. I always viewed others who bought autos as posers that "dont get it". My conversion to the "dont get it" camp happened quick. I test drove a 2014 911 with PDK. In sport+, hammering the throttle and having it down shift twice as the pedal hit the floor... I was in shock.. all my years of arrogance vanished in that instant.
Though I currently drive a 17' manual GS, the next car will be an automatic. I refuse to drive a car that can't beat a completely stock automatic mustang in a street race.
Though I currently drive a 17' manual GS, the next car will be an automatic. I refuse to drive a car that can't beat a completely stock automatic mustang in a street race.
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ByByBMW (08-22-2018)
08-22-2018, 09:52 PM
#151
Le Mans Master
08-22-2018, 10:06 PM
#152
The problem with the discussion is the amount of emotion, hatred and bias against the word "automatic".
The term has become associated with inefficient slushboxes of yore.
We just need a new term that means that the transmission can shift automatically if desired, or manually too.
VW use "DSG" for Direct shift gearbox.
The term has become associated with inefficient slushboxes of yore.
We just need a new term that means that the transmission can shift automatically if desired, or manually too.
VW use "DSG" for Direct shift gearbox.
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TheC5Surgeon (08-22-2018)
08-23-2018, 12:47 PM
#153
Instructor
I just ordered a 2019 GS convertible with a manual with expected delivery in mid-October. I am also 3 years into a rebuild of my 1968 Ford XL Convertible and bought a Tremec M6 to hook to its new Coyote engine. When I choose to sell the 2019 GS, I expect I would buy a C8 with a manual, or it manuals are not available, I will be looking to purchase either a 1962 or a C2 and put a manual in it with a current ~500hp engine. I'm not a racer, so faster shifts is not important, it is all about being engaged in the driving process for me.
08-23-2018, 02:14 PM
#154
Drifting
I found myself NOT enjoying my '17 C7GS A8 as much as I should.
It's my weekend toy and not my DD, so I didn't need the auto convenience.
So, I traded it in (with 8k miles) for a leftover new '17 C7Z M7 and i'm not regretting it at all!
Last edited by Parcival; 08-23-2018 at 07:36 PM.
08-31-2018, 10:56 PM
#155
Melting Slicks
Rumor: Mustang Shelby GT500 Won’t Have Manual Gearbox
https://www.motor1.com/news/264364/m...-transmission/
https://www.motor1.com/news/264364/m...-transmission/
The following 2 users liked this post by GARYFINN:
bebezote (09-08-2018),
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09-03-2018, 06:27 AM
#157
Le Mans Master
At one time a majority would never give up their horse for the horseless carriage. Manual has been going away for some time. Internal combustion engines will mostly go away as well. Perhaps the discussion moves to manual or auto electric cars. That is if we are allowed to own a car you can drive yourself. The only question is how far down the road.
In addition, driver-less cars will be held up for many years for the regulatory wheels to turn (10 years or more) to properly govern driverless accidents ect. Even with "tried and true" technology the regulatory process is very slow in comparison to the pace of technology. Autonomous cars are a ways out despite the level of technology.
I agree that "the joy of the stick" is systematically being engineered out of the vette as the DCT which everyone has been clamoring for gets cheaper and will work over a longer service life.
When you have "full command" of the gear selection would you miss the clutch as much? I know that when something comes our way that makes changing clutches obsolete, gives a GREAT driving experience, AND is faster and affordable, I won't miss the clutch that much.
I'll keep my old stick cars as long as I can, but I for one am looking forward to something much better.
09-03-2018, 12:46 PM
#158
Race Director
There are several manufacturers that only have a DCT transmission available in their Sports cars", such as the AMG GT, Acura NSX and the Aston Martin.
I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
It appears that not every manufacturer is sold on mid engine sports cars with manual transmissions.
Of course, we also know that Acura totally mis-read the market for a mid engine hybrid sports car. I'm sure that when they were developing the New NSX, that they never thought there was only a market for 5 or 6 a month in sales in the USA. Their original sales forecast was for approximately 2,000 cars annually, with 90% of the cars for the USA and 10% of them for Japan.
I was reading an article earlier this morning on the new Toyota Supra. Appears that it is a front engine, rear wheel drive with a 591 HP inline 6 and a transaxle that most likely will be a DCT. I don't believe that Toyota has actually released the specs on the car though.
BMW is supposed to have a similar car built on the same platform being developed as they have a "working agreement" with Toyota.
It appears that not every manufacturer is sold on mid engine sports cars with manual transmissions.
Of course, we also know that Acura totally mis-read the market for a mid engine hybrid sports car. I'm sure that when they were developing the New NSX, that they never thought there was only a market for 5 or 6 a month in sales in the USA. Their original sales forecast was for approximately 2,000 cars annually, with 90% of the cars for the USA and 10% of them for Japan.
VIR
Cayman S - 3:02.6
Corvette Grand Sport - 2:47.1
Thats an INFINITY.
The question of which is the best is always decided by which makes the car faster in a race. In the old days automatics were always slower (except for special 'racing' transmissions) so the guys for whom 'Winning the race' was the only consideration chose manuals for the quicker shift times. Now, no 'clutch foot' can beat a paddle shift transmission in shift time so the guys for whom 'Winning the race' is the ONLY acceptable result are not going to accept being beat by that damn 'automatic slush-box paddle shifter' in the next lane. As long as the manufacturers provide the slower 'clutch foot cars' for the purists, you can have your cake if manual shifting is what you want, BUT, you can't 'EAT THE CAKE' too by always winning the race. The races will be decided by 'whoever' can control the car's traction problem the best, which was always the next thing a guy driving a powerful car had to do.
The particular article I read only mentioned the 591 HP and that is the basis for my post. No mention of any other engines were made.
I see in a later article, that there will be a 261 HP 2.0L 4 banger and a 335 HP 3.0L six. That article also states that the Supra will only have a ZF automatic, and the BMW version will have a manual transmission.
Will the 591 HP engine ONLY be available in a "race car" built by Toyota that is illegal to license for the street?
Hard to believe that Toyota would underpower a new sports car by so much. But then I see the 2019 Audi TT will have a 197 HP 2L and a 245 High Output version, and the TTS will have 306 HP. I doubt that those cars will be stealing any Corvette owners.
I see in a later article, that there will be a 261 HP 2.0L 4 banger and a 335 HP 3.0L six. That article also states that the Supra will only have a ZF automatic, and the BMW version will have a manual transmission.
Will the 591 HP engine ONLY be available in a "race car" built by Toyota that is illegal to license for the street?
Hard to believe that Toyota would underpower a new sports car by so much. But then I see the 2019 Audi TT will have a 197 HP 2L and a 245 High Output version, and the TTS will have 306 HP. I doubt that those cars will be stealing any Corvette owners.
Fun to launch if you don’t want your warranty anymore... or did they change that policy?
Last edited by pdiddy972; 09-03-2018 at 01:07 PM.
09-08-2018, 08:12 PM
#159
I think it would be a mistake, from a business case pov, to not offer a manual. Current manual take rate is 30%, and as others have pointed out, would be higher except for most dealers ordering a lot of autos for lot stock. Pissing off a pretty devout 30% of your base is not a good way to launch a new car. My advice is, be vocal, demand a stick and maybe we'll get it. Worked for the M5. Heck, there were years in the 70's/early 80s you couldn't get a stick Vette either, so there's hope. I just won't consider one without 3 pedals, sorry.
09-08-2018, 08:23 PM
#160
Melting Slicks
Manual transmissions account for just 2 percent of all vehicles sold in 2018, according to data from Edmunds.com. In 2006, 47 percent of new models in the U.S. were offered with automatics and manuals. Now it’s down to 20 percent and dropping sharply. For automakers it will be simpler when the manual dies,” said Ivan Drury, senior analyst at Edmunds.com. “It’s kind of a hassle for them to offer both, same with dealers. Given the market forces, it’s going to go away.”
Two good artcles
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...710-story.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...on/1131578002/
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-08-2018 at 08:35 PM.