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I don’t think team corvette is gonna chase a loosing formula.
Or abandon a winning formula?
The NSX is a great car. Problem is that it's grossly overpriced. If the NSX cost as much as an M3 you can be damn sure they would have sold a ton more.
The Vette is successful because it's relatively affordable, that's the main reason. If not, it would be just another viper-type that comes and goes and has low sales volume.
The FE platform is hardly maxed out. Look at the list of improvements GM could make:
1. DOHC motor
2. Reduced weight
3. Improved cooling
4. Improved aero (pass ZR1 aero down to other models), or add active aero
5. DCT/ improved (lower) gear ratios for the manual so that 7th isn't just an add on.
The C7 platform was a solid step up from the C6, but it's nowhere near maxed out.
The NSX is a great car. Problem is that it's grossly overpriced. If the NSX cost as much as an M3 you can be damn sure they would have sold a ton more.
Agree with your main point. But it would need to be less than an M3. It is a Honda and no where near a BMW.
The NSX is a great car. Problem is that it's grossly overpriced. If the NSX cost as much as an M3 you can be damn sure they would have sold a ton more.
The Vette is successful because it's relatively affordable, that's the main reason. If not, it would be just another viper-type that comes and goes and has low sales volume.
You're damn sure right, ... 'cause if I could have bought this for the same money I paid for my Grand Sport, .... I'm pimpin' that NSX!!!
Anything is possible, of course - and none of us know for sure - but I don't see GM selling two distinctly different lines of Corvettes. I think when the 2020 ME Corvette hits the streets in mid-2019, it's sayonara for the FE car.
Anything is possible, of course - and none of us know for sure - but I don't see GM selling two distinctly different lines of Corvettes. I think when the 2020 ME Corvette hits the streets in mid-2019, it's sayonara for the FE car.
If they are going to sell two lines, FE and ME, that would not bode well for the ME being affordable.
GM knows where the sweet spot is regarding prices/options customers usually go for so I still think the base ME will fall in line with current C7 GS prices.
The FE platform is hardly maxed out. Look at the list of improvements GM could make:
1. DOHC motor
2. Reduced weight
3. Improved cooling
4. Improved aero (pass ZR1 aero down to other models), or add active aero
5. DCT/ improved (lower) gear ratios for the manual so that 7th isn't just an add on.
The C7 platform was a solid step up from the C6, but it's nowhere near maxed out.
When they say the C7 is maxed out what they are saying is the architecture can't get around the track fast enough and HP that can be applied at the end of a straight doesn't make up for getting around a corner faster. Other than the Aero the items on your list don't improve the handling. On a road course you have as much distance in corners or corner exits as you do on straights, some times more distance in corners. Big HP doesn't help if you can't get around a corner faster and then put the power down as you accelerate off a corner. The current front mid engine architecture is having problems doing that. They need a higher percentage of the car's weight on the rear wheels. The times I have instructed in Ferrari 458s, Lambo's, Audi R8s I have felt the difference in handling between a rear mid engine Vs a front mid engine. It is much better. As GM has sort of mumbled a couple of times over the last few years their plans are to co-produce the end of the C7 model along with the beginnings of the C8 model for about 2 years. From what they have said about the improvements made at the factory it seems they have the factory set up to do this. I suspect the initial version of the C8 will have a fairly high level of performance with an engine that when detuned to meet the Weather Tech Series and LeMans rules will be sitting in a chassis that will make them competitive again.
Most people expect the new car to appear within the next 6 months and still no one has a clue as to what GM is planning and when they plan on showing it. They have done an incredible job of keeping this a secret.
My money is on a total switch to mid-engine for the C8. I don't know why that would be risky like some think. They will say that they took the front engine configuration as far as they could, but mid-engine truly puts them on equal footing with the exotics. A lot of C7 owners will be pissed to hear this but it's the truth. To me that is a compelling message and the thing will be a massive hit with exotic car looks and performance at a base of 65-70k.
The Camaro will fill the void for those who must have front engine V8 power. The 6th gen is so good it is now basically a 4 seat Corvette anyway.
Goaty,, I am coming around to your viewpoint. I think if Chevy can offer a C8 ME for about $5K more than the C7, then they will close the business case. I used to think they would cover their bet by offering both a FE and an ME 2-seater car, but I think that situation will only be temporary - MY2020-2021. The Camaro will be offered as the FE option after that.
To be truly successful at this, they really need to step-up the gain on Camaro, however. The current car is good, but not really competitive with the Mustang, particularly the GT350 and GT500 models. Chevy likely will have to start over - probably next year. I suggest they consider an aluminum frame with composite / nano composite body panels, like the Corvette. They need to make the car significantly smaller and lighter than it is now. it should also use the Corvette C7 drivetrain architecture, (keep the engine behind the front axle, and put the transmission in the back under the trunk.). Put in a vestigial rear seat, like the 911 to shorten the wheelbase. Then, and only, then will you replace the C7 and compete with the Mustang. Not so easy to do, however.
Last edited by dcbingaman; 08-05-2018 at 01:27 AM.
Reason: update
When they say the C7 is maxed out what they are saying is the architecture can't get around the track fast enough and HP that can be applied at the end of a straight doesn't make up for getting around a corner faster. Other than the Aero the items on your list don't improve the handling. On a road course you have as much distance in corners or corner exits as you do on straights, some times more distance in corners. Big HP doesn't help if you can't get around a corner faster and then put the power down as you accelerate off a corner. The current front mid engine architecture is having problems doing that. They need a higher percentage of the car's weight on the rear wheels. The times I have instructed in Ferrari 458s, Lambo's, Audi R8s I have felt the difference in handling between a rear mid engine Vs a front mid engine. It is much better. As GM has sort of mumbled a couple of times over the last few years their plans are to co-produce the end of the C7 model along with the beginnings of the C8 model for about 2 years. From what they have said about the improvements made at the factory it seems they have the factory set up to do this. I suspect the initial version of the C8 will have a fairly high level of performance with an engine that when detuned to meet the Weather Tech Series and LeMans rules will be sitting in a chassis that will make them competitive again.
Bill
Bill,
Thanks, as always, for your valuable insight.
No doubt that the rear engine platform puts more weight on the rear wheels. This provides more traction with less additional downforce applied.
That said, I still think GM could greatly improve on the C7.
The low rpm engine creates very tall gearing. This creates a need for huge torque to create the high horsepower at low RPM. Previous Z06 had 7000 RPM redline, why regress back? The huge torque also limits transmission choices, because they have to handle that torque. Have you instructed in any other true sports cars besides the Corvette that has a torque converter?
The weight has increased dramatically. I know this was because of a heavier, stiffer frame, and improved creature comforts, but I bet they could do better with the next generation. 3670 lbs for our premium car?
I think there is a lot of room to improve in the FE. I know it costs money, but volume sales will offset that.
A 600 hp, 3300 lb car, with efficient aero would be attainable, and competitive. I hope they make one next to the ME.
If you're ever in Florida and would like to instruct me in my GS Z07 & and friends in a Z06 and 911 GTS, I'd be honored. I'm sure there is so much to learn from you.
07-26-2018, 04:01 PM
