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? Ask to Tadge Juechter Why do you think Corvette has been able to stay around for so long when the rest of the domestic auto industry has struggled?
Answer:
It’s staying true to the mission of the car. Corvette has had its moments where it almost died. I don’t want it to seem like we’ve had a free ride the whole way. But if you look at other vehicles that are the successful long-term, they tend to stay true to their mission. They don’t try to wander off and be something they’re not. There are plenty of examples where cars tried to get bigger, or go from four passengers to two, or tried to migrate upmarket. They get cocky and think, “Wow, we could sell these things at a much higher price — let’s do an upscale version.” That doesn’t work. You have to stay true to what you are.
The ME isn't a "Corvette". If anything, that quote does a great job of making the case for the ME to be something entirely new, rather than having the Corvette "try to be something it's not".
So, not to be argumentative, but how do you explain FORD. It's "just a Ford" after all, which was called a GT. It sold out the first time around in the mid-2000's and it's doing the same this time around, right? Yeh, it's a $200K, $300K, $400K car, but "we" don't want that, do we? But those same Ferrari, Lambo, McLar., P-car, etc. owners---are they leaving "dead air" and nothing but crickets when it comes to the Ford GT? I don't think so.
I do think it'll be a hard sell for a $170K Corvette ME, though. What I can see is, "continuous improvement" which is exactly what Corvette has been doing since the C5 began in '97. Not everything is right re cooling. Not everything is right in the interior. Not everything is right re the transmission. The list goes on. But the real "leaps" in quality, ingenuity, options, genuine attempts to exceed and excel have been made.
I don't think the crowd that will, or wants to buy an ME Corvette requires and won't buy one if it doesn't have the most-"bestest" interior which is comparable to any sports car in the world---at a price tag which is also comparable. Because it may not sell at that price point. Ford did it, but maybe not Chevrolet, no matter how much we call it a Corvette, a Zora, or an ME. jmo
All good points. Remember the Ford GT is a Halo car that has always been an expensive hand-built car with a race heritage that competed against Ferrari and won back in the day. (Many Movies and books were written about it) I had the chance to pick the first gen up in its final year of production for around 140k as some were sitting and not moving in their final run. I kick myself today as that car is well worth over 275 plus range. The second generation Ford GT another hand built car that was created to race and compete and win the 24 Hours of Le Mans. It’s a very limited hand built Halo car yes from a company called Ford who is trying to advance their Eco-boost power plant.
Let’s ask why GM wants a ME Halo car? Why do they need a Halo car especially when they have a very successful formula Now? Keep asking yourself what does GM gain? We know Porsche is their bench mark a very profitable car company that sells more SUV”s than all their sports cars combined. http://www.thedrive.com/news/17596/t...ldwide-in-2017
The Viper & NSX all went up market by increasing their price & quality of their interiors and how did that work out for them?(price point north of 100k MSRP) How many people can afford a sports car north of 130k plus and how many would they need to produce. To me the math, risk and the drastic shift in the companies direction doesn’t make sense.
All good points. Remember the Ford GT is a Halo car that has always been an expensive hand built car with a race heritage that competed against Ferrari and won back in the day. (Movies and books were written about it) I had the chance to pick the first gen up in its final year of production for around 140k as some were sitting and not moving in their final run. I kick myself today as that car is well worth over 275 plus range. The second generation Ford GT another hand built car that was built as a race car to compete and win in the 24 hours of lemans. It’s a very limited hand built Halo car yes from a company called Ford who is trying to advance their Eco-boost power plant.
Let’s ask why GM wants a ME Halo car? Why do they need a Halo car especially when they have a very successful formula Now? Keep asking yourself what does GM gain? We know Porsche is their bench mark a very profitable car company that sells more SUV”s than all their sports cars combined. http://www.thedrive.com/news/17596/t...ldwide-in-2017
The Viper and the NSX all went up market by increasing their price and the quality of the interiors and offering how did that work out for them?(price point north of 100k MSRP) How many people can afford a sports car north of 130k plus and how many would they need to produce. To me the math, risk and the drastic shift in the companies direction doesn’t make sense. Tadge and others at GM have said why the brand is successful (my post a few threads up) I just come back to the C7 almost being canceled and Bob Lutz and others said it was going to be an ME and the FE platform has hit its performance limits. Great debate either way we will all know sooner than later.
The mid-engine vehicle(s) in question are just DIFFERENT. Everyone has made very good points, logic-based reasoning on both sides, ..... whats coming is fantastic
The steering wheel is an oval.... not a set standard square race wheel like I sketched out, not a circle, a damn OVAL.... matches the rear bubble like window.... rick from corvette conti, I see you!
The car(s) are making the rounds, many different people are getting their hands onthem, I'm still certain you won't see the official unveiling until press day at NAIAS 2019.
EDIT: Also, you can toss the "halo car" theory out the window
The mid-engine vehicle(s) in question are just DIFFERENT. Everyone has made very good points, logic-based reasoning on both sides, ..... whats coming is fantastic
The steering wheel is an oval.... not a set standard square race wheel like I sketched out, not a circle, a damn OVAL.... matches the rear bubble like window.... rick from corvette conti, I see you!
The car(s) are making the rounds, many different people are getting their hands onthem, I'm still certain you won't see the official unveiling until press day at NAIAS 2019.
EDIT: Also, you can toss the "halo car" theory out the window
.... annnnnd.... he works for GM This is a planned release/Teaser.
His sketches are on point, and the parts that are not on point, he is describing perfectly, which makes you wonder WHY he did not draw them that way in his sketch?
...Its because he was not allowed to... yet
Any other normal human being would have just drawn what they saw, and that would be that.
To the OP, you might want to tone it down a bit, you sound like an 8 year old kid who thinks he saw bigfoot riding a unicorn, and wants to tell us the endless story and how awesome it was.
Draw the real picture, end the drama please. Picture is worth a thousand words... we don't want 1,000 words, we want the real picture. If you work for GM and can't draw what you KNOW is real, great. You just gave yourself away. Anyone else would just draw it.
We aren't stupid. You thinking we are stupid is getting annoying very quickly.
Exactly... that's what I want. A no-frills basic "Z51" manual trans ME C8 with a 500 horse "LT2" or whatever OHV motor.
look at the spy photos and we can see this is the standard version and many believe you will get exactly what you are looking for at a very reasonable price..
yes just as todays c7 ranges in price from 56 grand to 140 grand depending on the model...
the c8 will follow that same pattern on pricing witha few grand bump to pay for the transaxle dct supplier based transmission instead if the inhouse A8 tirque convertor transmission also used in the pickup trucks..
other than that...whatever GM determines to make standard that used to be optional on the c7...figure to add that to the base price increase of the c8..
And that is where you are wrong, every car is accounted for, its location, who was driving it and when, where it was at what time. Revealing anything, and I mean ANYTHING, will 100% get someone terminated... which is why I have chosen to keep hush
Makes perfect sense, Im not sure what some expect to see, some up close color photos?
This has got to be the hardest crowd to please ever. Never seen anything like it LOL
Wouldnt surprise me if their top dog crested 100k, it will still sell.....they need to work on customer service though....people with deeper pockets will insist on excellence in all areas.
Below is a conversation with Bob L and Car and Driver about the next-gen Corvette and how Tadge wanted the C7 to be a mid-engine car.
C/D: That’s interesting you mention mid-engine. We were just reporting about the mid-engine Corvette mule and had heard it was in development before GM’s bankruptcy. Care to share anything?
BL: I have no idea whether they’re going to do a mid-engine Corvette or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was one in the mill. But what happens is, this would be about the fifth time that a mid-engine Corvette has been in the mill, and then you get an economic downturn and it’s the first thing that gets cast aside.
Actually, the C7 was going to be mid-engine. Tadge said, ‘I can’t do a good car if you don’t let me go mid-engine.’
C/D: How well do you think the mid-engine Corvette is going to be?
BL: I think they would unquestionably do a good job with it. Actually, the C7 was going to be mid-engine. The reason Tadge Juechter wanted to do it is that you get to a certain limit of how much power you can put down with the engine in the front, and Tadge showed us simulations to where you could go to 700 horsepower and 750 horsepower and it wasn’t going to do any good. To get the power down, a rear-mid-engine formula is really good. Tadge said, “I can’t do a good car if you don’t let me go mid-engine.” His mid-engine budget got canceled and they said, “Tadge, you’re going to have to do it and you don’t have the budget for a mid-engine car.” So after about a three-day sulk, he was told, do another front mid-engine. The issue was, to get the weight distribution we needed, the engine had to be moved back and you couldn’t do it with an X-shaped hydroformed frame. The solution, why the C7 is so good and why it is getting the power down, is because they added two inches of wheelbase and they were able to get the engine more towards the back. And it’s a lighter engine. Anyway, we should talk about Via .
At the end of this video time 5:28 Mark L. Reuss the current Executive Vice President of Global Product Development talks about the C8. Yes the man who crashed the ZR1 pace car. He will be one reason we get an affordable ME.
Great debate forum members I try to focus on facts and trends and inside info anyway we will all know sooner than later either way I don’t have a horse in the race.
I was on board with all of it...till now. Now, I'm confused.
First it was $169K with a highly upgraded digital interior similar to 488/GT, but now "they" are not a halo model for GM?
So it's just a fancy, slow, expensive, ME car?
The mid-engine vehicle(s) in question are just DIFFERENT. Everyone has made very good points, logic-based reasoning on both sides, ..... whats coming is fantastic
The steering wheel is an oval.... not a set standard square race wheel like I sketched out, not a circle, a damn OVAL.... matches the rear bubble like window.... rick from corvette conti, I see you!
The car(s) are making the rounds, many different people are getting their hands onthem, I'm still certain you won't see the official unveiling until press day at NAIAS 2019.
EDIT: Also, you can toss the "halo car" theory out the window
I was on board with all of it...till now. Now, I'm confused.
First it was $169K with a highly upgraded digital interior similar to 488/GT, but now "they" are not a halo model for GM?
So it's just a fancy, slow, expensive, ME car?
Can you clarify?
The model I saw was the high performance version. I didn’t see the other two, but there will also be a standard coupe and a spider in addition to the HP variant. I don’t know if the body/interior is similar on the base coupe and spyder than the Hp variant I saw. The high performance model is the one that will run for 169, other two will still be in The 6 figure range though, low 100’s? I don’t think the HP variant I saw will be the range topper, I think there will be an ultra Hp variant (1000+ hybrid) near the end of its cycle (2024/25). The HP model I saw can be comparable to what the z06 is to the c7, but no one said the HP model is a corvette, by name at least
If there's no affordable ME I'm going to be seriously disappointed.
Define affordable? You get what you pay for, and you will be getting a whole lot in this case, high performance variant or base, either way. (I could be wrong, didn’t see base, but it couldn’t be that much different, still get an whole lot of car for low 6 figures, $105-10 maybe, close to what a loaded z06 would cost now)
Below is a conversation with Bob L and Car and Driver about the next-gen Corvette and how Tadge wanted the C7 to be a mid-engine car.
C/D: That’s interesting you mention mid-engine. We were just reporting about the mid-engine Corvette mule and had heard it was in development before GM’s bankruptcy. Care to share anything?
BL: I have no idea whether they’re going to do a mid-engine Corvette or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was one in the mill. But what happens is, this would be about the fifth time that a mid-engine Corvette has been in the mill, and then you get an economic downturn and it’s the first thing that gets cast aside.
Actually, the C7 was going to be mid-engine. Tadge said, ‘I can’t do a good car if you don’t let me go mid-engine.’
C/D: How well do you think the mid-engine Corvette is going to be?
BL: I think they would unquestionably do a good job with it. Actually, the C7 was going to be mid-engine. The reason Tadge Juechter wanted to do it is that you get to a certain limit of how much power you can put down with the engine in the front, and Tadge showed us simulations to where you could go to 700 horsepower and 750 horsepower and it wasn’t going to do any good. To get the power down, a rear-mid-engine formula is really good. Tadge said, “I can’t do a good car if you don’t let me go mid-engine.” His mid-engine budget got canceled and they said, “Tadge, you’re going to have to do it and you don’t have the budget for a mid-engine car.” So after about a three-day sulk, he was told, do another front mid-engine. The issue was, to get the weight distribution we needed, the engine had to be moved back and you couldn’t do it with an X-shaped hydroformed frame. The solution, why the C7 is so good and why it is getting the power down, is because they added two inches of wheelbase and they were able to get the engine more towards the back. And it’s a lighter engine. Anyway, we should talk about Via .
At the end of this video time 5:28 Mark L. Reuss the current Executive Vice President of Global Product Development talks about the C8. Yes the man who crashed the ZR1 pace car. He will be one reason we get an affordable ME.
Great debate forum members I try to focus on facts and trends and inside info anyway we will all know sooner than later either way I don’t have a horse in the race.
I can relate and this was my exact thought. The C5/C6 platform are good for about 550-600 at the wheels MAX before it is almost impossible to put down the power in a straight line. Above that power range you need drag radials to hook in first. I would expect a FE Corvette, 800-850 HP variant to break loose on command like my 700 wheel hp C5 did. To me, mid-engine makes since. The weight will be where it needs to be to keep the rear planted.
Define affordable? You get what you pay for, and you will be getting a whole lot in this case, high performance variant or base, either way. (I could be wrong, didn’t see base, but it couldn’t be that drastic of a difference)
Your starting to get the picture .
Look at my avatar,then look at a C7 ZR1...
Same chassis,
completely different price and performance.
Define affordable? You get what you pay for, and you will be getting a whole lot in this case, high performance variant or base, either way
"You get what you pay for"
That's been the thing Corvette has always done better than anyone else in the performance car segment. Excellent performance for a comparatively small cost.
When the 2014 landed, what it offered was unparalleled performance for the $. Corvette always does this and it's getting better every year. The C8 is going to be the exact same thing and it is going to be mid-engined.
The Camaro ZL1 1LE is so close to the Z06 on the track that the only thing that really distinguish the two in achieving that performance difference is about 300 lbs of curb weight. Throw 300 lbs in the trunk of a Z06 and they will run nose to nose. The Front engin eplatform for Corvette is tapped.
Something looking really nice or exotic does not mean it necessarily costs a lot of money. The C7 has digital displays and HUD. Nothing you mentioned inherently costs more to produce than what they already do produce on the C7. Hell, my 2017 Honda Civic that stickered for $22,000 has all the same interior technology connectivity tech and digital displays that my C7 does. It's not expensive to do. The base 1LT stingray and a fully loaded Z51 3LT for the C7 look the same amount of expensive. Btu there's a $20,000 price difference.
You throwing out numbers like $169,000 just based upon what you supposedly observed is ridiculous.
A car design team could design a mid-engine car that LOOKS like it should cost $300,000 and sell it for $30,000. That's not hard to do.
08-15-2018, 11:53 PM
