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Question-Why Would Someone Just Not Buy A Porsche?

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Old 09-14-2018, 05:19 PM
  #341  
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Originally Posted by nexxis View Post


I’m saying there are many similarities. I pointed out 2 important aspects. I’m excited about a ME Vette. But if the base model is close in price to a luxury Carrera, Chevy is now competing with a different class.

Corvette is better currently than anything in it’s price range. 911’s are a different story.
Now I understand your opinion but I probably disagree with the underlying premise that Corvette is in a different "class" than 911s. Maybe Porsche's emphasizes this abstract concept as a marketing differentiator and some may as well "bite" but the automotive industry classifies both as sport luxury with many similarities and most often portrayed as direct competitors in trade/marketing magazines. with ZR1 sales numbers at hand, I could argue the inverse and state that in the 50K-150K class Corvette is a different story as well.


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Old 09-14-2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PurpleLion View Post
911s are way overblown. The C8 will destroy any Porsche upto about $150000.
I expect so, since the C7 already does that.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:12 PM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Now I understand your opinion but I probably disagree with the underlying premise that Corvette is in a different "class" than 911s. Maybe Porsche's emphasizes this abstract concept as a marketing differentiator and some may as well "bite" but the automotive industry classifies both as sport luxury with many similarities and most often portrayed as direct competitors in trade/marketing magazines. with ZR1 sales numbers at hand, I could argue the inverse and state that in the 50K-150K class Corvette is a different story as well.
You have an excellent point. But I still see the Carrera as a luxury car with performance. And the Corvette as a performance car with luxury. Interior design and finishes indicate that too. I hope the C8 stays within its price range, and not reach into “exotic car” prices.

My dream car since I was 3 was a Lamborghini. My previous C6 and current C7 have been the perfect cars within my budget that get close to it. If Chevy prices the C8 too high and I gotta reach further into my pockets, I might as well also be pulling out a fancy Porsche key.
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:15 AM
  #344  
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Good points as well. I think both names understand the need to luxu-rize sports cars (see Z06 "track capable" but spewing gizmos left and right). I think 911s are ahead with "precision" aesthetics (finishes like you put it) whether Corvette is ahead with luxury content such as ventilated seats, surround cameras and tech in general.


Given our different "biases" sport vs luxury..I suppose the key for me is price for HP/TQ. At the moment I am actually concerned that for either fuel mandated legislation or platform space constraint the Corvette ME will loose the V8 and that key differentiator Torque! Time will tell but I am willing to pay "premium" if they keep the V8 in there...I'll also be impressed technically...

Cheers!
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:33 AM
  #345  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Let's assume c7 base @ 55K and C8 base @ 65K...I would be curious to which one based on price? (your criteria)

Porsche cayman base: 65K for 300ps (Porsche pricing always add 10K to base)
Alfa Romeo 4C base: 60K for 237ps

everything else I see for 2019 is way over 100K?
What do you mean "always add 10K to base"? You can order it anyway you want., including base, and get a discount on top of that.

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Old 09-15-2018, 04:13 AM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by Michael A View Post
What do you mean "always add 10K to base"? You can order it anyway you want., including base, and get a discount on top of that.
Indeed it "seems" that way.. but I can tell you that coming from the Corvette "world" there is a big difference in Corvette pricing model and Porsche pricing model. One is simple (maybe too simple to the point of fault) and the other is extremely ala carte it cleverly masks "mandatory" options with real options with huge price creeps.

I'll save you the details of my personal experience with my son inquiry and attempted purchase of a 911..but bottom line he really thought he could really walk out with a "base" 911 plus few "indispensables" for MSRP 91100 + indispensables at about 95/96K to find out he was not even close and the best they could do for him is 105K base no indispensables.

Bottom line, no 911 "anything" for less than 100K.

I bet its the same for the cayman MSRP of 55K...

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Old 09-15-2018, 09:09 AM
  #347  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Indeed it "seems" that way.. he really thought he could really walk out with a "base" 911 plus few "indispensables" for MSRP 91100 + indispensables at about 95/96K to find out he was not even close and the best they could do for him is 105K base no indispensables.

Bottom line, no 911 "anything" for less than 100K.
Yeah Porsche has like 200 different option codes for everything. That’s why I would buy a year old — no surprises
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:22 AM
  #348  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Bottom line, no 911 "anything" for less than 100K.

I bet its the same for the cayman MSRP of 55K...
I shopped for a Cayman S at the same time I was looking a a Corvette GS. The MSRP on both cars was similar for the features I wanted.

I figured I might have to compromise on color based on inventory, but Kerbeck had the exact car I wanted down to the color, trim level, options and transmission. It was advertised at 13.5% off. I think at the time I bought mine they had over 100 Corvettes in stock.

It was exactly the opposite with the Cayman. There was no inventory to speak of. You were lucky if a dealership had three or four in stock. I didn't get to the pricing stage because I never found a car equipped the way I wanted.

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Old 09-15-2018, 07:07 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Indeed it "seems" that way.. but I can tell you that coming from the Corvette "world" there is a big difference in Corvette pricing model and Porsche pricing model. One is simple (maybe too simple to the point of fault) and the other is extremely ala carte it cleverly masks "mandatory" options with real options with huge price creeps.

I'll save you the details of my personal experience with my son inquiry and attempted purchase of a 911..but bottom line he really thought he could really walk out with a "base" 911 plus few "indispensables" for MSRP 91100 + indispensables at about 95/96K to find out he was not even close and the best they could do for him is 105K base no indispensables.

Bottom line, no 911 "anything" for less than 100K.

I bet its the same for the cayman MSRP of 55K...
Are you talking about buying a car out of dealer stock, or ordering one? Big difference. I have seen several Caymans that were ordered "no options", and they were sold at or below MSRP. It's when people get impatient is when they can't get the car they want at the price they want.

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Old 09-15-2018, 07:46 PM
  #350  
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Originally Posted by Telepierre View Post
Indeed it "seems" that way.. but I can tell you that coming from the Corvette "world" there is a big difference in Corvette pricing model and Porsche pricing model. One is simple (maybe too simple to the point of fault) and the other is extremely ala carte it cleverly masks "mandatory" options with real options with huge price creeps.

I'll save you the details of my personal experience with my son inquiry and attempted purchase of a 911..but bottom line he really thought he could really walk out with a "base" 911 plus few "indispensables" for MSRP 91100 + indispensables at about 95/96K to find out he was not even close and the best they could do for him is 105K base no indispensables.

Bottom line, no 911 "anything" for less than 100K.

I bet its the same for the cayman MSRP of 55K...
911 in my area is 8% off MSRP all day long unless it’s a GT or special variant. My 15 Cayman GTS had 514 miles it was titled and returned from a customer waiting for his 911 Turbo, the GTS was MSRP 91k I walked out before tax 67k and it was CPO.

Porsche is a luxury brand Corvette on its own is too but at a lower scale. Does Porsche have cars around the Corvette MSRP sure but the dealer experience alone is like a high end steakhouse to Bonanza with Chevrolet. Sorry no horse in the race I have owned many of both products and the Porsche is higher on the luxury scale. One big thing that hurts the Corvette it’s under the Chevrolet badge. I loved my 15 Z06 but the quality of the interior was still behind my 15 Cayman GTS, both had similar MSRP 90kish.

Performance the Z slaughter the GTS it was Not even in the same league, you would need to compare it to a GT3 or GT4. I believe the new ME will close this gap, but GM will always be behind when it comes to Dealership after sales and perception. When you walk into a Porsche store the least expensive car is 55k walk into a Chevrolet dealer it’s half of that number. Okay don’t blast away as I am on the list since 1/16 and can’t wait to get my ME.

IMO cars are getting crazy expensive and Porsche has lost their minds I was at the dealer yesterday they had a new 718 Cayman S loaded up to 114k. Lol that person will loose their A when they trade that one in.







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Old 09-15-2018, 07:49 PM
  #351  
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If you read any Porsche forums, the upcoming 992 is not being well received. Being called the "Panamera Coupe", the car moving away from its sports car roots. Truth be told, if McClaren came out with a "stripper" car at the $100K price point, alot of the 911 faithful would now make the jump. Whether the C8 can attract some of these disaffected Porsche people is yet to be known.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:10 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by fasttoys View Post

911 in my market you can get 8% off MSRP all day long unless it’s a GT or special variant. My 15 Cayman GTS had 514 miles it was titled and returned from a customer waiting for his 911 Turbo, the GTS was MSRP 91k I walked out before tax 67k and it was CPO.
What a find! How did you come across this?
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:24 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by nyca View Post
If you read any Porsche forums, the upcoming 992 is not being well received. Being called the "Panamera Coupe", the car moving away from its sports car roots. Truth be told, if McClaren came out with a "stripper" car at the $100K price point, alot of the 911 faithful would now make the jump. Whether the C8 can attract some of these disaffected Porsche people is yet to be known.
The high end consumers have been saying that BS about “the next generation “ 911 ,over the last 25 years....

They’re gonna sell every 992 that they produce,they know what their doing .


Your starting to see the same with Corvette.....
same bla bla....
The car should cost 150k...just so joe dirt can’t buy it....No one is listening to those types (thank god)they’d bring those iconic brands into bankrupcies .

They’re gonna sell every new C8 that they produce and it won’t cost 150 000$.
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:51 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by Michael A View Post
What a find! How did you come across this?
Buy a lot of cars and know a lot of dealers in the Dallas market. Car was sitting at Porsche dealer in Dallas,, PDK, Guard Red with black leather interior, I did not keep it long only 6 1/2 months. Don’t always win on these things but have a pretty good track record. Best time to buy any sport car is Nov through Feb and that is the worst time to sell. My goal is to buy low mile preowned cars with a warranty, preferably CPO.

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Old 09-16-2018, 12:13 AM
  #355  
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Porsches are nice sports cars. I dont like overpaying for service and repairs and I have a wodnerful service experience at jackson chevrolet in middletown ct,

every service visit is a pleasure.

i think porsche has the 992 following undisguised and running the “ring “ in videos and ohitos with the c8 for a reason...

even the most diehart porsche guys are getting a little sick of porsche option and maintaince pricing on the 911...

the C7 almost did the trick with the z06 and 650 hp.

The switch to rear mid engine will be the deathknell blow to porsches overcharging.

i predict quite a few conquest sales with the c8.

porsches pricing has begun to irritate their customer base and as friends of multimillionaires where the actuall cost matters little....the overcharging is just becoming a laughing and running joke thats becoming insulting...

we should see a nice jump in porsche conquest sales...and a lot of hapoy smiling new corvette owners...

no more ridiculous service interval costs...

just change the plugs at 100k miles for a couple hundred bucks...a oil change at under a hundred bucks a shot...new tires and gas...

reading german car forums cracks me up....i never insult them and rately post...but their maintaince and even repair cost structures are wacked...

unless the cars vlowing me..im not spending that kind of coin to maintain a vehicle in running order.

just buy a corvette and add gasoline..oil changes and tires.maybe brake pads every 50k

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Old 09-16-2018, 01:13 AM
  #356  
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Originally Posted by fasttoys View Post


Buy a lot of cars and know a lot of dealers in the Dallas market. Car was sitting at Porsche dealer in Dallas,, PDK, Guard Red with black leather interior, I did not keep it long only 6 1/2 months. Don’t always win on these things but have a pretty good track record. Best time to buy any sport car is Nov through Feb and that is the worst time to sell. My goal is to buy low mile preowned cars with a warranty, preferably CPO.
Nice! Sounds like you have a seasonal arbitrage situation going. I'm not sure it would work quite as well here in sunny SoCal.
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:23 AM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post
Porsches are nice sports cars. I dont like overpaying for service and repairs and I have a wodnerful service experience at jackson chevrolet in middletown ct,

every service visit is a pleasure.

i think porsche has the 992 following undisguised and running the “ring “ in videos and ohitos with the c8 for a reason...

even the most diehart porsche guys are getting a little sick of porsche option and maintaince pricing on the 911...

the C7 almost did the trick with the z06 and 650 hp.

The switch to rear mid engine will be the deathknell blow to porsches overcharging.

i predict quite a few conquest sales with the c8.

porsches pricing has begun to irritate their customer base and as friends of multimillionaires where the actuall cost matters little....the overcharging is just becoming a laughing and running joke thats becoming insulting...

we should see a nice jump in porsche conquest sales...and a lot of hapoy smiling new corvette owners...

no more ridiculous service interval costs...

just change the plugs at 100k miles for a couple hundred bucks...a oil change at under a hundred bucks a shot...new tires and gas...

reading german car forums cracks me up....i never insult them and rately post...but their maintaince and even repair cost structures are wacked...

unless the cars vlowing me..im not spending that kind of coin to maintain a vehicle in running order.

just buy a corvette and add gasoline..oil changes and tires.maybe brake pads every 50k





There is a lot to be said for Chevy maintenance costs. A guy on a BMW forum lost his 5 series key fob. It cost him $850 to replace it, and it needed to be programmed by the dealer. The same Corvette part is about $100, and you can program it yourself.

If you want service manuals, they might be $3000 if you can get them at all. Chevy? $250.

The Corvette Forum is much more hands-on, than the Porsche and BMW forums, too, if you are a DIYer. After about two years into the model run, somebody has taken their Corvette's entire interior apart, engines apart, and just about everything else you can think of. You can pretty much always get an answer to your question. I've never seen any forum where so many people literally tear their brand new cars apart, and put them back together. Even the Camaro and Mustang forums aren't quite this hands on. It's rather remarkable really. That's another reason why I hope Chevy keeps the C8 affordable, so it is within financial reach of the DIY people. It's what makes the Corvette community special.

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Old 09-16-2018, 09:38 AM
  #358  
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Originally Posted by Michael A View Post
There is a lot to be said for Chevy maintenance costs. A guy on a BMW forum lost his 5 series key fob. It cost him $850 to replace it, and it needed to be programmed by the dealer. The same Corvette part is about $100, and you can program it yourself.

If you want service manuals, they might be $3000 if you can get them at all. Chevy? $250.

The Corvette Forum is much more hands-on, than the Porsche and BMW forums, too, if you are a DIYer. After about two years into the model run, somebody has taken their Corvette's entire interior apart, engines apart, and just about everything else you can think of. You can pretty much always get an answer to your question. I've never seen any forum where so many people literally tear their brand new cars apart, and put them back together. Even the Camaro and Mustang forums aren't quite this hands on. It's rather remarkable really. That's another reason why I hope Chevy keeps the C8 affordable, so it is within financial reach of the DIY people. It's what makes the Corvette community special.
So very true and well said. And I like to quote Jay Leno when asked about his ZO6 and compared it to one of his friends that ran into a curb and the damage was $26,000.00 dollars! He said, "After all the Corvette is a Chevy and you can fix it with a hammer!" I always remember that quote while chatting about cars with my Porsche owner friends.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:34 AM
  #359  
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Originally Posted by Mike Campbell View Post
So very true and well said. And I like to quote Jay Leno when asked about his ZO6 and compared it to one of his friends that ran into a curb and the damage was $26,000.00 dollars! He said, "After all the Corvette is a Chevy and you can fix it with a hammer!" I always remember that quote while chatting about cars with my Porsche owner friends.
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Old 09-16-2018, 12:42 PM
  #360  
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post
Porsches are nice sports cars. I dont like overpaying for service and repairs and I have a wodnerful service experience at jackson chevrolet in middletown ct,

every service visit is a pleasure.

i think porsche has the 992 following undisguised and running the “ring “ in videos and ohitos with the c8 for a reason...

even the most diehart porsche guys are getting a little sick of porsche option and maintaince pricing on the 911...

the C7 almost did the trick with the z06 and 650 hp.

The switch to rear mid engine will be the deathknell blow to porsches overcharging.

i predict quite a few conquest sales with the c8.

porsches pricing has begun to irritate their customer base and as friends of multimillionaires where the actuall cost matters little....the overcharging is just becoming a laughing and running joke thats becoming insulting...

we should see a nice jump in porsche conquest sales...and a lot of hapoy smiling new corvette owners...

no more ridiculous service interval costs...

just change the plugs at 100k miles for a couple hundred bucks...a oil change at under a hundred bucks a shot...new tires and gas...

reading german car forums cracks me up....i never insult them and rately post...but their maintaince and even repair cost structures are wacked...

unless the cars vlowing me..im not spending that kind of coin to maintain a vehicle in running order.

just buy a corvette and add gasoline..oil changes and tires.maybe brake pads every 50k


I Myself think that JerriVette as whacked the nail on the head here. I will Say that Porsche is Beautiful well engineered car. It truly has a very nice fit and finish and does handle extremely well. But as JerriVette has pointed out their is more to a good looking well made car.

Having been in Business and have worked with the Mfg for the product I rep-ed and repaired , I can say that the cost diff between what I pay and the Mark up was 50% for parts. If I Paid $50.00 for an item the Mfg's retail price I charged the customer was $100.00. That was the Norm per the MFG. I could charge less but why should I.

Now this was in the Pro Audio Business. In reference to Large Format Mixing consoles used for Sound systems for Top Preforming Live acts. This was the Norm In the entire Live Sound Industry.

So we know what the Auto industry charges us for parts on American Cars... Their is a High Mark up and prices can Vary form one supplier to another . Now when you look at what The Top Euro High end Car guys charge... That's Just Stupid. I will not pay $500.00 Plus for Brake pads.. or any other item that has a Ware factor in normal use.

Also because of the way these hi end cars are made Labor is out of site. You might have to dismantle a large potion of the car to get to a $5.00 Part.

Me....I'll stick with Corvette... Might still cost a few bucks to service ...but I won't have to take a second Mortgage On my house for Auto repairs. And I feel good about paying $90.00 for a set of front standard Brake pads instead of $500.00 Plus.
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