Question-Why would someone just not buy a Porsche?

Closed Thread Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

08-21-2018, 03:41 PM

#21

C5Driver

Racer

Thread Starter

Member Since: Nov 2004

Posts: 489

Likes: 34

Received 174 Likes on 93 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speednet

Why not just skip to the punchline and complain about it not having round tail lights? I wish people who start threads like these would realize have dumb they sound.

Nothing dumb about this question because every attempt GM has made in the past for mid/rear engine cars have been colossal failures. Why invest money in a platform type that GM really knows nothing about?

Last edited by C5Driver; 08-21-2018 at 03:43 PM.

08-21-2018, 03:53 PM

#22

Plexoer

Pro

Member Since: Jan 2013

Location: Tampa

Posts: 593

Likes: 947

Received 374 Likes on 144 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

I don't know about that, seems like a pretty useless thread to me.

The following 4 users liked this post by Plexoer:

bgspot (08-27-2018), CorvettoBrando (08-21-2018), Doons (10-17-2018), MyDarkAngel (10-21-2018)

08-21-2018, 04:11 PM

#23

RapidC84B

Team Owner

Member Since: Feb 2013

Posts: 20,196

Likes: 8,280

Received 13,153 Likes on 5,984 Posts

Because the Corvette can trounce every car Porsche makes until you get into the 911 GT3/Turbo/Turbo S range. The old owner of the company I work for has a new 911 GTS Targa4. My stock 2014 Stingray has 30 more horse. His car cost $180K+ after options. The Cayman/Boxster has a pathetic Turbo 4 because of enviro-crap and they sound like ****. The basic 911s don't sound good. And at VIR this weekend the C7-R sounded better than anything else on track (the Lexuses sound great too).

A mid-engine V8 American car with an "affordable" price tag is something nobody offers. It would cause me to buy my first new car.

The following 7 users liked this post by RapidC84B:

Apollo29 (08-22-2018), bgspot (08-27-2018), CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), nking48076 (12-21-2018), Plexoer (08-21-2018), and 2 others liked this post.

08-21-2018, 04:13 PM

#24

jimmyb

Race Director

Member Since: Jan 2005

Location: NC

Posts: 13,934

Likes: 912

Received 4,248 Likes on 2,023 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

Instead of a M/E Corvette? GM and mid engine have sort of an oil and water ring to it for me. Why not buy from a Company who has been doing M/E for decades now. No matter how pretty the Corvette M/E might be, its last cousin was a Fiero, think about it.

You're joking, right?
The Fiero went out of production 30 years ago. I can't believe the Fiero is even brought up. This is like saying I won't buy a C7 because it has an aluminum block engine and we know how the Vega turned out.

Last edited by jimmyb; 08-21-2018 at 04:14 PM.

The following 9 users liked this post by jimmyb:

Apollo29 (08-22-2018), bgspot (08-27-2018), Corvette ED (04-22-2019), CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), JockItch (08-24-2018), and 4 others liked this post.

08-21-2018, 04:21 PM

#25

sstonebreaker

Le Mans Master

Member Since: Mar 2006

Location: Texas

Posts: 5,775

Likes: 184

Received 577 Likes on 366 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

The only mid-engine Porsche currently available costs over a million dollars.

08-21-2018, 04:23 PM

#26

fasttoys

Melting Slicks

Member Since: Aug 2004

Location: Big D Dallas TEXAS

Posts: 2,075

Likes: 846

Received 1,260 Likes on 558 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

In the hallways of GM the ME has been a dream and talked about for over 30 years. Financially they finally have the opportunity to move it forward lol Engine backward. The head engineer said the current platform is at its limit. I posted articles were Tadge had meetings with leadership and showed that an FE is at its limits once you get the power to a certain level. I do agree with Tadge even my C7 Z06 had a difficult time keeping the power to the ground. Some say the ZR1 is the widowmaker as it is fun to drive it’s a very serious machine that can bit you if your not careful. I drove a twin turbo corvette with over 1000 HP and I just remembered huh this thing is going to kill me. Drove a 1000 plus twin turbo all wheel drive Lamborghini I did not feel the same fear. I feel the ME is a good move. IMO Porsche is at another level in luxury perception that GM can’t change no matter how great the ME is. I have owned 5 Porsche’s.

Last edited by fasttoys; 08-21-2018 at 08:27 PM.

The following 2 users liked this post by fasttoys:

CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), elegant (08-21-2018)

08-21-2018, 04:28 PM

#27

RapidC84B

Team Owner

Member Since: Feb 2013

Posts: 20,196

Likes: 8,280

Received 13,153 Likes on 5,984 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstonebreaker

The only mid-engine Porsche currently available costs over a million dollars.

Uh... Boxster and Cayman.

The following 6 users liked this post by RapidC84B:

CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), JustinStrife (08-21-2018), Rapid Fred (08-21-2018), rcooper (08-21-2018), rgregory (08-22-2018), and 1 others liked this post.

08-21-2018, 04:31 PM

#28

tbasco 6

Pro

Member Since: Apr 2006

Posts: 572

Likes: 30

Received 35 Likes on 28 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoratZ06

Tons of reasons...

Brand Loyalty
Price
Maybe they prefer the GM design/looks
Performance
Closeness to a dealership (location wise)

And probably many that I've missed...

Also not having to deal with the snooty arrogance of Porche dealers. I had a VW bug for a year while in college, had my fill of rear engine German cars.

The following 2 users liked this post by tbasco 6:

CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), Plexoer (08-21-2018)

08-21-2018, 04:53 PM

#29

C5Driver

Racer

Thread Starter

Member Since: Nov 2004

Posts: 489

Likes: 34

Received 174 Likes on 93 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyb

Exactly my point. Thats GMs experience with mid engine cars ummm until maybe now. LOL.

The following users liked this post:

JustinStrife (08-21-2018)

08-21-2018, 05:00 PM

#30

Suns_PSD

Le Mans Master

Member Since: Oct 2012

Location: Texas

Posts: 8,434

Likes: 535

Received 408 Likes on 301 Posts

GM is a massive engineering and manufacturing company.

They can do anything Porsche can do and better, including putting the motor behind the cab.

Their only constraints are they sell at a dramatically different price point.

The following 7 users liked this post by Suns_PSD:

Apollo29 (08-22-2018), bgspot (08-27-2018), CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), fsvoboda (01-05-2019), gobuffsgo (09-13-2018), and 2 others liked this post.

08-21-2018, 05:40 PM

#31

CitznFish

Drifting

Member Since: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,559

Likes: 598

Received 1,350 Likes on 482 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

The last year of the Fiero was brilliant. The engineers finally put back in everything the bean counters had them remove to cut costs.

The following 2 users liked this post by CitznFish:

fsvoboda (01-05-2019), ScreamingSkull (09-12-2018)

08-21-2018, 06:18 PM

#32

sstonebreaker

Le Mans Master

Member Since: Mar 2006

Location: Texas

Posts: 5,775

Likes: 184

Received 577 Likes on 366 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder

Uh... Boxster and Cayman.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those...for good reason. If those are the choices then the vette wins hands-down. The vette will eat both of them for lunch autocrossing, drag racing or track driving, plus the boxster/cayman has a huge reliability problem. I mean, not one vette exists that has a cayman engine in it, but enough caymans and even 911's crap out that they make KITS to swap in LS engines.

The following users liked this post:

ptran00 (04-14-2019)

08-21-2018, 06:25 PM

#33

ByByBMW

Le Mans Master

Member Since: Dec 2004

Location: AZ

Posts: 5,754

Likes: 2,229

Received 536 Likes on 279 Posts

St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19

When the ME Corvette is out, I will then be able to answer your question. Until then the ME Vette is all smoke and mirrors and wishes and maybes and what ifs and ad infinitum.

08-21-2018, 06:28 PM

#34

jimmyb

Race Director

Member Since: Jan 2005

Location: NC

Posts: 13,934

Likes: 912

Received 4,248 Likes on 2,023 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

Exactly my point. Thats GMs experience with mid engine cars ummm until maybe now. LOL.

It's a car...not a Jupiter probe.
It has brakes, radiators, an engine, an interior, etc....Pretty sure they can figure it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitznFish

The last year of the Fiero was brilliant. The engineers finally put back in everything the bean counters had them remove to cut costs.

Exactly. "Old" GM had a nasty habit of KNOWING the right thing to do and had the engineers capable of doing it, only to be blindsided by accountants (Roger Smith comes to mind).

Bob Lutz's book "Car guys and beancounters" is a great read and a good view into pre-bankruptcy GM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstonebreaker

The only mid-engine Porsche currently available costs over a million dollars.

The 918 Spyder went out of production June 2015.
Cayman/Boxster are the answer you're looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Driver

So, they shouldn't do an ME Corvette because of the Fiero (d.1988) and the Corvair (d.1969)?
Got it.

Last edited by Steve Garrett; 08-22-2018 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Merged Posts-please use the Multi-Quote button in the lower right hand corner (the middle icon) to make your responses to multiple people look like this!

The following 4 users liked this post by jimmyb:

bgspot (08-27-2018), CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), CorvettoBrando (08-22-2018), EyeMaster (09-19-2018)

08-21-2018, 08:06 PM

#35

Michael A

Le Mans Master

Member Since: Jun 2001

Location: CA

Posts: 9,597

Likes: 2,780

Received 2,919 Likes on 1,361 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstonebreaker

This sounds like fanboy talk.

Motortrend 2017 Best Driver's Car: 718 Cayman S 12.0 quarter mile, Corvette Grand Sport 12.2 quarter mile. Right, really eating it for lunch.

I have not seen any "huge reliability problem" with the 718 Cayman or Boxster.

The following 6 users liked this post by Michael A:

1SG_Ret (12-10-2018), ByByBMW (08-21-2018), C5Driver (08-21-2018), gpuglisi (08-22-2018), JustinStrife (08-21-2018), and 1 others liked this post.

08-21-2018, 08:13 PM

#36

Michael A

Le Mans Master

Member Since: Jun 2001

Location: CA

Posts: 9,597

Likes: 2,780

Received 2,919 Likes on 1,361 Posts

I don't think this is going to be a slam dunk for the ME Corvette. If they price it near the current FE car, it will help considerably, but if they go up for there, then the Cayman and Boxster will be less money. Someone who decides they want a mid-engine car for the handling, may decide the ME Corvette is too expensive, and go with what Porsche has, just as the FE Corvette has been doing to its competitors.

Also Corvettes have to be serviced at Chevy dealers. Boxsters and Caymans are serviced at Porsche dealers. Which one would you rather go to? Would you rather have a Chevy Cruze loaner, or a Panamera loaner?

The following 2 users liked this post by Michael A:

ByByBMW (08-21-2018), JustinStrife (08-21-2018)

08-21-2018, 08:17 PM

#37

tbasco 6

Pro

Member Since: Apr 2006

Posts: 572

Likes: 30

Received 35 Likes on 28 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyb

So, they shouldn't do an ME Corvette because of the Fiero (d.1988) and the Corvair (d.1969)?
Got it.

Don't think the 53 & 54 Vettes were that outstanding (6 cylinders, no roll up windows) maybe GM should have dropped their 2 seat sports car after 3 years like Ford did with the T-Bird.

08-21-2018, 08:21 PM

#38

Dr. ice

Melting Slicks

Member Since: Dec 2013

Location: Missouri

Posts: 3,231

Likes: 481

Received 957 Likes on 608 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleLion

From a specifications standpoint, the C8 will be far superior to a Porsche.

vs 911
- mid engine vs rear engine
- more power
- wishbones instead of struts
- much better price/performance

vs Boxster/Cayman
- way more power
- wishbones instead of struts
- much better price/performance

All I can say to you, is never drive a current generation 911 and you will always think your right! The Porsche is superior to the current C7 in about every way. I have had both and loved my Corvette, but the 911 is better. Perhaps the C8 will close the gap. If so, I will be back.

Last edited by Dr. ice; 08-21-2018 at 08:23 PM.

The following 5 users liked this post by Dr. ice:

ByByBMW (08-21-2018), C5Driver (08-21-2018), fasttoys (08-21-2018), JDSKY (08-22-2018), vrybad (08-22-2018)

08-21-2018, 08:59 PM

#39

jimmyb

Race Director

Member Since: Jan 2005

Location: NC

Posts: 13,934

Likes: 912

Received 4,248 Likes on 2,023 Posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael A

GS was 5 seconds a lap faster than the Cayman

The following 6 users liked this post by jimmyb:

Apollo29 (08-22-2018), CorvetteBrent (08-24-2018), dcbingaman (08-22-2018), pdiddy972 (08-30-2018), Plexoer (08-21-2018), and 1 others liked this post.