Question-Why would someone just not buy a Porsche?
10-23-2018, 11:43 PM
#681
Melting Slicks
This article, https://www.caradvice.com.au/587564/...ng-lap-record/ , has the VP of Porsche Motorsport saying otherwise.
Last edited by skank; 10-24-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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10-23-2018, 11:44 PM
#682
Melting Slicks
I was at the Motor Trend test. Porsche was using the special race rubber(non stock race rubber) that was also used on the Nurburgring run. The GT2 RS, 720S, and Lambo were all using their special rubber and the ZR1 was using their standard stock runflat tire. The ZR1 was the only one of the four cars using runflats in the test. Pobst also turned off the nannies on the ZR1 but left them on for the other three cars. Strange !!! Porsche's tires are not available for sale on the GT2 RS production car. They will evidently be available aftermarket in time. The whole test was strange in how they portrayed the outcome.
Wish I could have been there.
10-24-2018, 12:05 AM
#684
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '06
Last edited by Mopar Jimmy; 10-24-2018 at 01:43 AM.
10-24-2018, 04:23 AM
#685
Banned Scam/Spammer
10-24-2018, 07:04 AM
#686
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Actually, I was being a bit generous with that "2 seconds." It was actually 1.7 seconds. This special-production P-car costs 2½ times as much as the production-line Corvette yet is only 1.7 seconds faster. 1.7 seconds could be anything: tire choice, active suspension mapping, a few more pounds of boost, or tweaked aero. Any competent tuner could get that back for a lot less than the $200,000 difference in price.
If Chevrolet wanted to, they could pull a limited number of ZR1s off the line, consign them to a "factory-authorized" tuner (like M-B does with AMG), and sell them in showrooms as special editions at a reasonable premium to the stock ZR1 and still be half the cost for similar performance.
That GT2 is an awfully nice car, but it's not $328,000 nice.
Last edited by jcsperson; 10-24-2018 at 07:06 AM.
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10-24-2018, 11:37 AM
#688
Banned Scam/Spammer
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Suffice it to say, part of the GT2's track times are due to these superior tires which competitors don't yet have access to. Which means competitor cars running the same tires may be faster, making for an apples-to-apples comparison.
That's like a sneaker company only giving one runner a revolutionary pair of running shoes which makes them faster; in that situation would that be a fair comparison of that runner's true speed versus competitors?
That's like a sneaker company only giving one runner a revolutionary pair of running shoes which makes them faster; in that situation would that be a fair comparison of that runner's true speed versus competitors?
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 10-24-2018 at 11:47 AM.
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10-24-2018, 12:00 PM
#689
Banned Scam/Spammer
Suffice it to say, part of the GT2's track times are due to these superior tires which competitors don't yet have access to. Which means competitor cars running the same tires may be faster, making for an apples-to-apples comparison.
That's like a sneaker company only giving one runner a revolutionary pair of running shoes which makes them faster; in that situation would that be a fair comparison of that runner's true speed versus competitors?
That's like a sneaker company only giving one runner a revolutionary pair of running shoes which makes them faster; in that situation would that be a fair comparison of that runner's true speed versus competitors?
Last edited by Sub Driver; 10-24-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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10-24-2018, 12:04 PM
#690
Le Mans Master
Wow, you act as though you own one of these and have to rationalize the money you spent.
Actually, I was being a bit generous with that "2 seconds." It was actually 1.7 seconds. This special-production P-car costs 2½ times as much as the production-line Corvette yet is only 1.7 seconds faster. 1.7 seconds could be anything: tire choice, active suspension mapping, a few more pounds of boost, or tweaked aero. Any competent tuner could get that back for a lot less than the $200,000 difference in price.
If Chevrolet wanted to, they could pull a limited number of ZR1s off the line, consign them to a "factory-authorized" tuner (like M-B does with AMG), and sell them in showrooms as special editions at a reasonable premium to the stock ZR1 and still be half the cost for similar performance.
That GT2 is an awfully nice car, but it's not $328,000 nice.
Actually, I was being a bit generous with that "2 seconds." It was actually 1.7 seconds. This special-production P-car costs 2½ times as much as the production-line Corvette yet is only 1.7 seconds faster. 1.7 seconds could be anything: tire choice, active suspension mapping, a few more pounds of boost, or tweaked aero. Any competent tuner could get that back for a lot less than the $200,000 difference in price.
If Chevrolet wanted to, they could pull a limited number of ZR1s off the line, consign them to a "factory-authorized" tuner (like M-B does with AMG), and sell them in showrooms as special editions at a reasonable premium to the stock ZR1 and still be half the cost for similar performance.
That GT2 is an awfully nice car, but it's not $328,000 nice.
It's hard for me to get too excited about a car I will never buy (the GT2RS) either way, but these Nuerburgring times are not a good comparison for several reasons including: 1) The Euro manufacturers are geographically close to it and put 100% effort in to those times Just like any race car can get considerably faster with proper set up, the time and effort spent at this place results in a hero lap that's not realistic for a manufacturer that spends much less time and money testing here; 2) it's not really indicative of the racetracks we drive as enthusiasts. For example most of us don't want to go 180 mph through a turn as the consequences are simply too high but a car that does that well can shave off many seconds at the Ring. Once again, how does this pertain to the average enthusiasts?
~ take care
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10-24-2018, 12:29 PM
#691
You just pulling this stat out of your *** or do you have facts to prove this statement?
Once again another drunkard on Corvette Kool Aid can't admit that there actually is a car out there that out performs the best Corvette yet.
As far as the price difference between the Z and GT2, who exactly started this thread? Here's a hint, don't bring a knife to a gun fight, if you don't like the answer to the question don't ask the question in the first place, simple. If you wanna participate in a thread comparing a 911 to a Corvette be prepared to not like the facts, again, really simple.
Once again another drunkard on Corvette Kool Aid can't admit that there actually is a car out there that out performs the best Corvette yet.
As far as the price difference between the Z and GT2, who exactly started this thread? Here's a hint, don't bring a knife to a gun fight, if you don't like the answer to the question don't ask the question in the first place, simple. If you wanna participate in a thread comparing a 911 to a Corvette be prepared to not like the facts, again, really simple.
I have provided ample evidence the ring car as well as the MT car were non stock prototypes/or illicitly fitted. The burden of proof is now on you to disprove the evidence of such.
What is ridiculous is this tire/stripping fiasco was uncovered moons ago!
FACT #1: This is and excerpt form the Porsche official announcement of the Nurburing record ONE YEAR OLD:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-911-gt2-rs-record-nuerburgring-nordschleife-sports-cars-road-approved-14277.html
I could not understand all the moaning on the PFF forum until my good friend (lawyer) from Germany pointed out to the clever (and deceitful) passage used to disguise the fact Porsche used prototype race tires:
Porsche factory driver Tandy travelled straight from a six-hour race in Austin, Texas to the Nürburgring, swapping the Le Mans prototype Porsche 919 Hybrid for the 515-kW (700-hp; Fuel consumption combined 11.8 l/100 km; CO2 emissions 269 g/km) 911 GT2 RS with Michelin Pilot Cup 2 tyres in impressive style. It was Lars Kern, a Porsche test driver by trade with a passion for racing, who ultimately set the final record time
How clever...false signaling one pilot had CUP 2 tyres thus leading everybody to think the other car also...and omitting all together to mention Lars HAD FRIGGING RACE TIRES!
DO YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT THAT MENTIONS CUP 2 R? Simple question (Mr. Facts) YES OR NO?
DO YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT THAT MENTIONS THE CAR WAS OEM DELETED (STRIPPED)? YES OR NO?
Do you see anything in the official statement that disclaims the only reason they could call the prototype ring car a street legal car is because they met the European Union definition of limited production street car. Care to tell me (Mr. facts) what that number is? It is 20. Care to tell me how many 911GT2RS were built in 2017? 20! Get it?
THE CUP 2 R tires do not exists. Michelin has been announcing them for more than a year. Now tire rack is on to the same to play along. Call them and see what you get...
Peace Brother!
Last edited by Telepierre; 10-24-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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10-24-2018, 12:35 PM
#692
Safety Car
That is a crock of BS. The GT2RS was using their custom fabricated tire for that ring run and many others including the Motor Trend BDC test. I had a nice explanation by Ken Gould of Porsche N.A. from Atlanta that the Michelin Cup 2R on the GT2RS is a one off specific tire for that car only. It was designed relative to the front and rear weight ratios of the car, torque characteristics of the engine, horsepower characteristics of the car, and aero downforce, etc. That tire will only be available for that model after market and they will only offer standard higher mileage run flats to customers. If I remember correctly he said customers will be able to buy them next year through Michelin but not through Porsche. A separate version of that tire was also used on the GT3RS that set the Ring record 6:57. If I remember correctly he said the GT3 tire was specific to itself. I guess it's possible that Michelin made two ringer tires for the GT2RS and the GT3RS, but wow, what a expense just to set those ring times. Also, Randy drove the ZR1 with the PTM turned off, but left those controls on for the other three cars. Odd, and then he complained that it had too much power and had a tough time getting traction coming out of the slower corners. I was standing next to Matt Satchell (ZR1 development engineer), Ron Kiino, and the ZR1 mechanic from GM and we all just looked at each other wondering why Pobst turned the PTM off when Matt recommended MT to leave it on. The ZR1 also had the optional Cold Air Intake for a full 772hp so putting down all that power with the PTM turned off seemed strange and unusual. There was a crowd of people around him and they were filming his observations of each car as he finished with each car's hot lap. It's interesting how Motor Trend portrays this tire situation.
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10-25-2018, 02:15 PM
#693
Drifting
Honestly it sounds like this is the reason Pobst decided to turn off the ZR1's PTM:
By the way, this is a cut and past from his twitter page. "Motor Trend track tester, 90 pro road race wins plus. Porsche, Audi, Mazda and Volvo factory driver. But really, I'm a motorcycle man"
Last edited by Zaro Tundov; 10-26-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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10-25-2018, 04:05 PM
#694
Race Director
Porsche’s are not who I am. Owned a BMW not too long ago and didn’t feel comfortable. I’m just a blue collar guy with a white collar job, wear shorts, t-shirts and sneakers to work.
10-25-2018, 05:17 PM
#695
Drifting
10-25-2018, 05:23 PM
#696
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
I almost bought an M240i X-Drive for winter driving. I loved it: great handling, terrific I6 turbo, incredibly fun to drive. Ultimately I opted for a Cadillac ATS4 3.6 since I have a lot of extended family who work for GM. The ATS is great, but unlike BMW Cadillac cannot engineer an AWD system to handle the power/torque of their twin turbo V6 (ATS-V), nor can they engineer MRC to work with AWD. GM's corporate V6 is also kind of lame relative to BMW's insanely great I6 turbo.
10-25-2018, 06:53 PM
#697
Race Director
I almost bought an M240i X-Drive for winter driving. I loved it: great handling, terrific I6 turbo, incredibly fun to drive. Ultimately I opted for a Cadillac ATS4 3.6 since I have a lot of extended family who work for GM. The ATS is great, but unlike BMW Cadillac cannot engineer an AWD system to handle the power/torque of their twin turbo V6 (ATS-V), nor can they engineer MRC to work with AWD. GM's corporate V6 is also kind of lame relative to BMW's insanely great I6 turbo.
10-25-2018, 07:11 PM
#698
Drifting
let me sell you $50K tires to go with your $330K vs $130K car and see how you do, lol!
i love the GT2, but just sayin...
Just give me the address of the P dealership where you work and I'll take a look at your tires...
Last edited by Parcival; 10-25-2018 at 07:12 PM.
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10-25-2018, 10:08 PM
#699
Advanced
I have a 17 Cayman S and a 18 Stingray. I’ll start by saying the Vette is more comfortable. More relaxed to drive, really enjoy cruising. The Porsche has more of a hard edge. Not comfortable for a long ride, more road noise. But, the Porsche puts the power down. Hooks hard from a standing start where the Vette wants to spin. As far as cornering, the Porsche is like a surgeons scaple in the bends as opposed to a K-bar. I suspect they would be close in the quarter but I don’t see the (base) Stingray hanging in the corners. Now mine is a base car and I know there are upgraded suspensions for both cars. All I can say is they are 2 totally different approaches to going fast.
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10-25-2018, 10:59 PM
#700
Burning Brakes
I have a 17 Cayman S and a 18 Stingray. I’ll start by saying the Vette is more comfortable. More relaxed to drive, really enjoy cruising. The Porsche has more of a hard edge. Not comfortable for a long ride, more road noise. But, the Porsche puts the power down. Hooks hard from a standing start where the Vette wants to spin. As far as cornering, the Porsche is like a surgeons scaple in the bends as opposed to a K-bar. I suspect they would be close in the quarter but I don’t see the (base) Stingray hanging in the corners. Now mine is a base car and I know there are upgraded suspensions for both cars. All I can say is they are 2 totally different approaches to going fast.
Stock is super floaty, Z51 feels like a proper sports car.
Add Mag Ride, you'd think you were driving something 2 gens ahead of the stock suspension.
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