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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Originally Posted by Dr. ice
I sold my lowly Harley Ultra Classic Limited and my C7 to get my 911.....and worth every penny to me.
Not sure I have the money to get a new 911 so starting to look for a decent used one. But not looking hard, the Boxster is still SO fun to drive. Just like my C6 Z06, what a beast that was.
Well said Mark! I too have had many German cars and they're not all what some perceive they are! Perception of superiority overcomes actual reality. The fact is Porsche's are over-priced and you get less for more. I personally don't factor price is my liking for a car. If I like it , I like it no matter price. That said, I will buy a German car if I like it so I am not some anti German car guy. After owning many, I just don't put them on a false pedestal like some do. And as far as snobbish people, snobs will be snobs no matter what car they drive or how they look. It's just some are more delusional about their reason of being a snob than others LOL.
......is your point that everything costing more than a Corvette is not worth it and their snobs to boot? You do realize that no current Corvette outside of the ZR1 commands sticker and that will change quickly. While any Porsche GT car is far superior in holding its value. Try buying a new GT3 at MSRP. Better yet try buying a new GTRS3 or GTRS2 anywhere close to MSRP. The market sets the price and its always correct. I will never argue that Corvette is the best thing going for the money.....but we all know it’s not the best thing money can buy. No one is being delusional.
......is your point that everything costing more than a Corvette is not worth it and their snobs to boot? You do realize that no current Corvette outside of the ZR1 commands sticker and that will change quickly. While any Porsche GT car is far superior in holding its value. Try buying a new GT3 at MSRP. Better yet try buying a new GTRS3 or GTRS2 anywhere close to MSRP. The market sets the price and its always correct. I will never argue that Corvette is the best thing going for the money.....but we all know it’s not the best thing money can buy. No one is being delusional.
Where did you come up with that assessment? And no I couldn't care less about who's snobbish or what, I can be just as snobbish if I wanted to be! And the reason the GT cars bring a premium is because they are produced in very low quantities. How much more would the ZR1 bring if GM only produced 500-750/year for US market??? What Porsche does brilliantly is produced super low volume variants thus resulting in premiums and thus further trickles down to their lesser cars and people's perception of them. Heck, if Honda came out with a super limited version (less than a 1000) of the Civic that too would command premiums so don't let a cars premium price fool you into thinking it's somehow the best thing since sliced bread!
Where did you come up with that assessment? And no I couldn't care less about who's snobbish or what, I can be just as snobbish if I wanted to be! And the reason the GT cars bring a premium is because they are produced in very low quantities. How much more would the ZR1 bring if GM only produced 500-750/year for US market??? What Porsche does brilliantly is produced super low volume variants thus resulting in premiums and thus further trickles down to their lesser cars and people's perception of them. Heck, if Honda came out with a super limited version (less than a 1000) of the Civic that too would command premiums so don't let a cars premium price fool you into thinking it's somehow the best thing since sliced bread!
Sorry if I misinterpreted. While I agree with your supply and demand statement, I still hold to the fact that all cars wouldn’t be equal if sold at the same volume. Hopefully, this is a statement we may both agree on.
I sold my Ducati when I got the Porsche. I had a 15 dvt Multistrada.
I have a Diavel and Monster 1100evo. I am waiting for the new Diavel to come out to see if I want to trade the OG Diavel in. I’ve had it for almost six years....it’s been bulletproof so far as has the 1100evo..
Sorry if I misinterpreted. While I agree with your supply and demand statement, I still hold to the fact that all cars wouldn’t be equal if sold at the same volume. Hopefully, this is a statement we may both agree on.
I wished the Corvette team took a page out of Porsche's book and produce super limited variants of the Corvette as well. The ZR1 is pretty limited but not really. A few more variants like a Z06R, etc. would be nice. Sadly I don't think they have it in them! Even their anniversary special editions are nothing but tacked on stripes and decals.
"Another thing customers want: an automatic transmission. So the ZR1 has one, for the first time, with eight ratios. Both it and the seven-speed manual are direct mechanical carryovers from the Z06. “We haven’t done A-to-B testing,” MacDonald says, “but the automatic is likely faster, because we have torque reduction to protect the first three gears in the manual. "
Alex MacDonald Is a GM engineer, test driver and Chevrolet vehicle-performance manager.
PS-SAE power certification has nothing to do with the transmission. It's about what the engine produces on an engine dyno under a very strict protocol.
Nice find Joe but I think you forgot context:Context: Joe5 wrote:
The C7 ZR1 has 715 lbs-ft of torque and uses a Tremec TR6070 transmission that Tremec rates at 635 lbs-ft of max input torque.
Torque management by the computer allows this, so I would think that same application would also apply to a DCT with less torque input rating than the engine's torque output.
.. maybe we are saying the same thing differently maybe not..Context was torque handling abilities of Ferrari/Porsche/McLaren DCT vs Corvette A8.
I surmised by your TQ management entry you were suggesting the ZR1/Z06 A8 handles the extra 200 ft-lbs (averaged throughout the power band) by way of TQ management and DCT could match that the same way (?) and they don't (?). Don’t have much time…the max torque for real DCTs on the street I could find is the 488GTB at 515 ft-lbs and GT2RS PDK at 495 ft-lbs More than willing to entertain valid references (as in real car real transmission) to the DCTs in the 650 area…if they exist..Bottom line: I reiterate (data at hand) there is a substantial delta between torque handling ability of current DCTs (all brands) versus the A8s. What are you saying?
“Both it and the seven-speed manual are direct mechanical carryovers from the Z06”
Again, nice find: ZR1 A8 is a mechanical carryover of the Z06 A8 which is a mechanical carryover of the Stingray.Just like the LT5 is a mechanical carry over of the LT4 which is a mechanical carryover of the LT1Just like the 911 GT2RS engine is a mechanical carryover of the 911 Turbo engine… Does not mean they are the same:https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/transmissions/8l90-e-lt1https://www.chevrolet.com/performanc...ons/8l90-e-lt4
Alex MacDonald Is a GM engineer, test driver and Chevrolet vehicle-performance manager.
Tadge Juencter is Chief Engineer/ Vehicle Line Director - Corvette at General Motors. .Again, if really interested in the subject suggest listening to how the 8L90 is modified for the ZR1
PS-SAE power certification has nothing to do with the transmission. It's about what the engine produces on an engine dyno under a very strict protocol
Context again:If you are saying that corvette “cheats” and “really” inputs 634 ft-lbs to the A8 and DCT don’t do that… you are mistaken because HP-SAE protocol measures torque at the output shaft and it is 715 ft-lbs (730 ft-lbs with optional cold air intake)THEN...
HP-SAE has everything to do with input torque validation.. However, I do agree with you that SAE J1349 testing protocol measures engine power at the engine output shaft and not transmission shaft…
By the way:
“because we have torque reduction to protect the first three gears in the manual”
Here Alex is talking about first three gears protection against human error or rather folks silly enough to let the clutch go and present the manual with 730 Ft-lbs of torque at speed 0 time 0…. I am sure there is no misunderstandings there..
Last edited by Telepierre; 01-03-2019 at 10:05 AM.
Talked to one admin and he said this thread is the best honeycomb trap ever devised and he is not closing it kingdom come!??
Something about keeping the rest of the forum clean!? but he also said that since I was not an "owner" nor a cyber security guy I would not understand...
Last edited by Telepierre; 01-03-2019 at 01:07 PM.
c5arlen - you misquoted me by omission. My original statement was:
Originally Posted by PurpleLion
911s evolved from a stripped / sports car version of a Volkswagen.
The "stripped / sports car version" that I was referring to is the Porsche 64.
Porsche origins from Wikipedia: "One of the first assignments the new company received was from the German government to design a car for the people, that is a "Volkswagen".[3] This resulted in the Volkswagen Beetle, one of the most successful car designs of all time.[5] The Porsche 64 was developed in 1939 using many components from the Beetle."
Also, FYI the 356 was produced from 1948-1965 and was succeeded by the 901 not the other way around as you stated.
Last edited by PurpleLion; 01-04-2019 at 06:18 PM.
Two awesome sports cars that have evolved into highly desirable cars with super car performance capabilities. Pull out your wallet and pick your flavor! Thank goodness they both look a hell of a lot better then they did in their infancy.
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Here, we encounter the price point and feasibility questions. First, can GM do it ? That’s OP’s focus it seems. To me this is trivial if Ford can (Ford Gt) , if there is not a cost cutting limitation. Next, can it be more reasonable than the Ford GT (<< half mill)? That’s the real question to me...
Big difference of course is that Corvette is built on a conventional if slightly slower production line, around 150 per eight hour day, if I've got my figures right. Ford GT is essentially hand built by a supplier (Multimatic, in Canada, at a rate of about one a day, I believe) and priced as a very high end halo car. Lots changes when you change production method, not just cost but also features. (For example, an "Ask Tadge" focused on the mechanism for C7 alignment adjustment, and the answer was that the method used on C7 allows relatively quick, easy alignment without slowing the line.)
Mass production makes Corvette's pricing possible.
c5arlen - you misquoted me by omission. My original statement was:
The "stripped / sports car version" that I was referring to is the Porsche 64.
Porsche origins from Wikipedia: "One of the first assignments the new company received was from the German government to design a car for the people, that is a "Volkswagen".[3] This resulted in the Volkswagen Beetle, one of the most successful car designs of all time.[5] The Porsche 64 was developed in 1939 using many components from the Beetle."
Also, FYI the 356 was produced from 1948-1965 and was succeeded by the 901 not the other way around as you stated.
true...and the 356 is considered by many the first real Porsche, as it was developed internally (by the founder’s son while the founder was in jail for **** War crimes but not tried in court) and actually marketed to the public.
01-02-2019, 07:10 PM
