Question-Why would someone just not buy a Porsche?
01-07-2019, 01:54 PM
#1061
Melting Slicks
gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chevrolet/corvette/chevrolet-corvette-sales-numbers/
Total C7Z06 + C7ZR1 sales to date(2015-2018):8653+15868+7212+7880=39613 AVG MSRP: $103,289
https://rennlist.com/forums/Total Base 911 sales to date (2015-2018 2nd % best after turbo): 985+890+897+964=3736 AVG MSRP $101,307
Price is a factor. Price/Performance a much more important factor.
The reason I used the Z06 and ZR1 MSRP is to specifically debunk the theory/opinion that Corvette sales more because they are “cheaper”. The numbers above completely debunk that opinion. By your own admission some Z06s car run slightly above or lower than base 911 (may as well call it even) yet completely obliterate in sales base 911s by a factor of 10!! Turning your “more poor people = more corvettes” completely on its head… not even close to even!
Are you willing to entertain the idea that maybe (only maybe) these numbers are a result of real market price/performance competition and a guy with 100K or 1M actually prefers a 100K corvette instead of a 100K 911 by a huge factor!?... Peace.
P.S I actually learned a lot about Porsche pricing from my son. The 29 year “rascal” was going to proverbially rebel from his Dad and surprise/ impress him with a “superior”911 buy (also because he lived in Germany for a while..)
He went in a VA Porsche dealer, sat into a 911 and left… “nice interiors; ten styles of shifter *****..but no real tangible road worthy options; price on crack!” his words… ;-) yes...he did walk out...
Total C7Z06 + C7ZR1 sales to date(2015-2018):8653+15868+7212+7880=39613 AVG MSRP: $103,289
https://rennlist.com/forums/Total Base 911 sales to date (2015-2018 2nd % best after turbo): 985+890+897+964=3736 AVG MSRP $101,307
Price is a factor. Price/Performance a much more important factor.
The reason I used the Z06 and ZR1 MSRP is to specifically debunk the theory/opinion that Corvette sales more because they are “cheaper”. The numbers above completely debunk that opinion. By your own admission some Z06s car run slightly above or lower than base 911 (may as well call it even) yet completely obliterate in sales base 911s by a factor of 10!! Turning your “more poor people = more corvettes” completely on its head… not even close to even!
Are you willing to entertain the idea that maybe (only maybe) these numbers are a result of real market price/performance competition and a guy with 100K or 1M actually prefers a 100K corvette instead of a 100K 911 by a huge factor!?... Peace.
P.S I actually learned a lot about Porsche pricing from my son. The 29 year “rascal” was going to proverbially rebel from his Dad and surprise/ impress him with a “superior”911 buy (also because he lived in Germany for a while..)
He went in a VA Porsche dealer, sat into a 911 and left… “nice interiors; ten styles of shifter *****..but no real tangible road worthy options; price on crack!” his words… ;-) yes...he did walk out...
Again...big price difference between entry level Corvette and entry level 911 Porsche regardless of your preferences. Over half of all c7 sales are either the Stingray or Grandsport and they are closer to the $65k figure I earlier referenced. A new base 911 starts around $91k before options with a new c2s starting at $113k before options. A light to moderately equipped base 911 will be in the $110k range with a c2s being in the $130-$135k range. From there they quickly escalate in price. A GTS Carrera will match the top Corvette in price of $150k plus......and that’s the cheap 911 Porsche’s. So yes, price does matter and it’s stupid to think otherwise. I am not debating that some would rather have the Corvette regardless of price. However, raise the starting point of a Corvette to the starting price of a 911 Porsche and watch what happens to overall Corvette sales numbers. I think many people on this forum would hate to see that happen and it would keep them from buying a new Corvette as they currently are able to do. Feel free to argue until your blue in the face.
Last edited by Dr. ice; 01-07-2019 at 02:07 PM.
01-07-2019, 02:56 PM
#1062
Again...big price difference between entry level Corvette and entry level 911 Porsche regardless of your preferences. Over half of all c7 sales are either the Stingray or Grandsport and they are closer to the $65k figure I earlier referenced. A new base 911 starts around $91k before options with a new c2s starting at $113k before options. A light to moderately equipped base 911 will be in the $110k range with a c2s being in the $130-$135k range. From there they quickly escalate in price. A GTS Carrera will match the top Corvette in price of $150k plus......and that’s the cheap 911 Porsche’s. So yes, price does matter and it’s stupid to think otherwise. I am not debating that some would rather have the Corvette regardless of price. However, raise the starting point of a Corvette to the starting price of a 911 Porsche and watch what happens to overall Corvette sales numbers. I think many people on this forum would hate to see that happen and it would keep them from buying a new Corvette as they currently are able to do. Feel free to argue until your blue in the face.
With the above you are completely dispensing with data and rationalizing by supposition "suppose the price base corvette = base price 911"
Supposition is not reality and you can't extrapolate reality from supposition. I's a never ending inconclusive merry go round to the desired outcome...
So raise the starting point of a Porsche 911 to Ferrari prices and watch what happens to overall 911 sales numbers...(DuH!)
As for your invitation to argue...experience has taught me lies win battles but truths win wars...
back to you, Still here.
01-07-2019, 03:55 PM
#1063
Melting Slicks
I don't know if you understand the difference between opinioning on supposition versus data analysis. Did you actually read the data?! and do you understand the correlation I made between Corvette price versus sales compared to 911?
With the above you are completely dispensing with data and rationalizing by supposition "suppose the price base corvette = base price 911"
Supposition is not reality and you can't extrapolate reality from supposition. I's a never ending inconclusive merry go round to the desired outcome...
So raise the starting point of a Porsche 911 to Ferrari prices and watch what happens to overall 911 sales numbers...(DuH!)
As for your invitation to argue...experience has taught me lies win battles but truths win wars...
back to you, Still here.
With the above you are completely dispensing with data and rationalizing by supposition "suppose the price base corvette = base price 911"
Supposition is not reality and you can't extrapolate reality from supposition. I's a never ending inconclusive merry go round to the desired outcome...
So raise the starting point of a Porsche 911 to Ferrari prices and watch what happens to overall 911 sales numbers...(DuH!)
As for your invitation to argue...experience has taught me lies win battles but truths win wars...
back to you, Still here.
Last edited by Dr. ice; 01-07-2019 at 04:04 PM.
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01-07-2019, 04:21 PM
#1064
Ahh! OK got the point now: BOTH cars are aaaammmmaaaziiiing and wouuunderfulllll.. but but but...…IF ;-)
Cheers.
01-07-2019, 04:26 PM
#1065
Melting Slicks
Its okay to be angry. Hell.... if I were you I would probably be angry too. You talk about supposition yet you own neither a c7 or a Porsche. So ALL of your comments are opinion or misguided research. Get back to the c6 forum where your opinions can be more fact based. I support both cars which is beyond your ability to comprehend. Cheers!
Last edited by Dr. ice; 01-07-2019 at 04:28 PM.
01-07-2019, 04:46 PM
#1066
Yes yes..so to to calm myself down I am now going to tell you a true story...but the catch is there are parts of the true story which are complete B.S. and your job is to get the BS part and the point of the story...here it comes...
I am a free faller and that means I parachute myself with a parachute and land safely but from time to time since I parachute so much I actually forget to don my parachute but it's not a big deal because I still land safely and you guys that free fall obviously know this but if you are not a free faller than you don't know what I am talking about..so you can go back to basket weaving..
Obviously if you read this by now you should get one of the following for sure but all three...!?... I am not so sure:
1. I am not on the C6 forum...
2. Which part is B.S
3. What is the point of the story
tik tok...
I am a free faller and that means I parachute myself with a parachute and land safely but from time to time since I parachute so much I actually forget to don my parachute but it's not a big deal because I still land safely and you guys that free fall obviously know this but if you are not a free faller than you don't know what I am talking about..so you can go back to basket weaving..
Obviously if you read this by now you should get one of the following for sure but all three...!?... I am not so sure:
1. I am not on the C6 forum...
2. Which part is B.S
3. What is the point of the story
tik tok...
01-07-2019, 04:50 PM
#1067
Melting Slicks
Yes yes..so to to calm myself down I am now going to tell you a true story...but the catch is there are parts of the true story which are complete B.S. and your job is to get the BS part and the point of the story...here it comes...
I am a free faller and that means I parachute myself with a parachute and land safely but from time to time since I parachute so much I actually forget to don my parachute but it's not a big deal because I still land safely and you guys that free fall obviously know this but if you are not a free faller than you don't know what I am talking about..so you can go back to basket weaving..
Obviously if you read this by now you should get one of the following for sure but all three...!?... I am not so sure:
1. I am not on the C6 forum...
2. Which part is B.S
3. What is the point of the story
tik tok...
I am a free faller and that means I parachute myself with a parachute and land safely but from time to time since I parachute so much I actually forget to don my parachute but it's not a big deal because I still land safely and you guys that free fall obviously know this but if you are not a free faller than you don't know what I am talking about..so you can go back to basket weaving..
Obviously if you read this by now you should get one of the following for sure but all three...!?... I am not so sure:
1. I am not on the C6 forum...
2. Which part is B.S
3. What is the point of the story
tik tok...
01-07-2019, 06:48 PM
#1068
Race Director
Again...big price difference between entry level Corvette and entry level 911 Porsche regardless of your preferences. Over half of all c7 sales are either the Stingray or Grandsport and they are closer to the $65k figure I earlier referenced. A new base 911 starts around $91k before options with a new c2s starting at $113k before options. A light to moderately equipped base 911 will be in the $110k range with a c2s being in the $130-$135k range. From there they quickly escalate in price. A GTS Carrera will match the top Corvette in price of $150k plus......and that’s the cheap 911 Porsche’s. So yes, price does matter and it’s stupid to think otherwise. I am not debating that some would rather have the Corvette regardless of price. However, raise the starting point of a Corvette to the starting price of a 911 Porsche and watch what happens to overall Corvette sales numbers. I think many people on this forum would hate to see that happen and it would keep them from buying a new Corvette as they currently are able to do. Feel free to argue until your blue in the face.
I would rather pay $200k for a Porsche that I can sell 5 years later for high resale value than pay $100k for a Z06 that drops like a bitch.
Price is not an issue if you have the funds. If price is important then buy a Used Vette.
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Atari_Prime (01-07-2019)
01-07-2019, 07:01 PM
#1069
Agreed. If you can afford a $200k car without significant hardship, it comes down to 1) which do you like better, and 2) which is the better investment. At the moment 911s are good investments and hold or increase in value rather well. A 1996 911 Turbo had a sticker of between $73k and 105k depending on version. Today, those same cars are selling for between $150k and $250k. A 1996 Vette had a sticker of approx. $37k. Today those cars go for between $5k and $15k. If you get the GS, you are still only looking at $20k to $30k.
The Vette may have been the better value at the time, but if you had the means you were better off picking up the Porsche in the long run.
The Vette may have been the better value at the time, but if you had the means you were better off picking up the Porsche in the long run.
Last edited by Atari_Prime; 01-07-2019 at 07:01 PM.
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Tennis & Golf Nut (01-07-2019)
01-07-2019, 07:09 PM
#1070
Agreed. If you can afford a $200k car without significant hardship, it comes down to 1) which do you like better, and 2) which is the better investment. At the moment 911s are good investments and hold or increase in value rather well. A 1996 911 Turbo had a sticker of between $73k and 105k depending on version. Today, those same cars are selling for between $150k and $250k. A 1996 Vette had a sticker of approx. $37k. Today those cars go for between $5k and $15k. If you get the GS, you are still only looking at $20k to $30k.
The Vette may have been the better value at the time, but if you had the means you were better off picking up the Porsche in the long run.
The Vette may have been the better value at the time, but if you had the means you were better off picking up the Porsche in the long run.
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01-07-2019, 07:21 PM
#1071
Race Director
I guarantee I drive my cars harder than you do.
I'd much rather buy the Porsche and have a chance at getting 100% of my money back in 5-10 years than losing 20% when I leave the Dealer lot, aka Corvette.
Last edited by Tennis & Golf Nut; 01-07-2019 at 07:31 PM.
01-07-2019, 07:51 PM
#1072
Melting Slicks
Agreed. If you can afford a $200k car without significant hardship, it comes down to 1) which do you like better, and 2) which is the better investment. At the moment 911s are good investments and hold or increase in value rather well. A 1996 911 Turbo had a sticker of between $73k and 105k depending on version. Today, those same cars are selling for between $150k and $250k. A 1996 Vette had a sticker of approx. $37k. Today those cars go for between $5k and $15k. If you get the GS, you are still only looking at $20k to $30k.
The Vette may have been the better value at the time, but if you had the means you were better off picking up the Porsche in the long run.
The Vette may have been the better value at the time, but if you had the means you were better off picking up the Porsche in the long run.
Incidentally, looking at the stock market from 1996 to present, the Dow hit 6000 in October 1996. Early in 2018 it was at 26,000. (Today it's 23,531.) By that standard a stock market fund would have been a much better idea than a 911 turbo.
01-07-2019, 08:37 PM
#1073
Melting Slicks
20% of ALL buyers of ANY product do not Buy based upon price.
I would rather pay $200k for a Porsche that I can sell 5 years later for high resale value than pay $100k for a Z06 that drops like a bitch.
Price is not an issue if you have the funds. If price is important then buy a Used Vette.
I would rather pay $200k for a Porsche that I can sell 5 years later for high resale value than pay $100k for a Z06 that drops like a bitch.
Price is not an issue if you have the funds. If price is important then buy a Used Vette.
01-07-2019, 09:47 PM
#1074
20% of ALL buyers of ANY product do not Buy based upon price.
I would rather pay $200k for a Porsche that I can sell 5 years later for high resale value than pay $100k for a Z06 that drops like a bitch.
Price is not an issue if you have the funds. If price is important then buy a Used Vette.
I would rather pay $200k for a Porsche that I can sell 5 years later for high resale value than pay $100k for a Z06 that drops like a bitch.
Price is not an issue if you have the funds. If price is important then buy a Used Vette.
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ArmchairArchitect (01-08-2019)
01-08-2019, 12:37 AM
#1075
Melting Slicks
Most Porsche's don't hold their values like you think. I do agree the super limited variants do hold their value quite well and kudos to Porsche for having proper inventory control which GM has no clue when it comes the Corvette regarding this matter.......I wished they did though! Side note, It blows my mind just seeing a Porsche with a $200K msrp. It makes no sense to me! But hey if GM decided to make only 500 ZR1's/year then I guess they could sell them for close to $200K as well.
01-08-2019, 02:01 AM
#1076
Race Director
I would say if 20% buy with no regard to price they won’t be buying much in the future unless they have Bill Gates money. Even people with money care about what they spend at some level. They don’t ever get to the point of having otherwise! Perhaps a little exaggeration......but I agree that a Porsche holds it money better than a Corvette. However, that may not an important criteria for many......especially the 20% you are throwing around😜
I'm in marketing and the Facts say 20% don't shop price only for Every product you can think of. And 20% only shop by lowest price.
Even the poorest person at Walmart doesn't shop price if he is in the 20% that look at other issues.
01-08-2019, 02:05 AM
#1077
Race Director
Conservatively, $200K should generate at least $8K of yearly income forever. (That's what they recommend if you're drawing on retirement investment, 4%; in reality income is probably higher.) My house--which is very nice--has a lower estimated value than $200K. Somebody will be buying those higher end Porsches, but it won't be me, or probably many of us even if we can afford to do so. The really rich people I know drive Buicks or mid-level Mercedes or--wait for it--a 2LT C7.
Guys like me could give a **** how much interest we get on $200k. In the Macro picture it's a joke.
For Joe Blow who gets paid by the Hour, then yes, he counts every penny because he has Finite money. Money is limited, there is only so much in the pot.
For business people like me, money is Unlimited.
Edit: Just reading that post makes me queezy. Poverty mindset sucks.
Last edited by Tennis & Golf Nut; 01-08-2019 at 02:07 AM.
01-08-2019, 01:30 PM
#1078
To me it makes the Corvette even more badass to know that Jeuchter's team are a rogue faction inside a heartless and incompetent corporate machine.[/QUOTE]
👍
👍
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01-08-2019, 03:54 PM
#1079
Banned Scam/Spammer
Member Since: Sep 2016
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Guys like me could give a **** how much interest we get on $200k. In the Macro picture it's a joke.
For Joe Blow who gets paid by the Hour, then yes, he counts every penny because he has Finite money. Money is limited, there is only so much in the pot.
For business people like me, money is Unlimited.
Edit: Just reading that post makes me queezy. Poverty mindset sucks.
For Joe Blow who gets paid by the Hour, then yes, he counts every penny because he has Finite money. Money is limited, there is only so much in the pot.
For business people like me, money is Unlimited.
Edit: Just reading that post makes me queezy. Poverty mindset sucks.
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 01-08-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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01-08-2019, 04:37 PM
#1080
Pro
I'l raise you a Second Porsche, and a CTS V-sport!!!!!! I had to hire a "Shrink" just to help me get through the decision process every morning of what to drive.
.............But I was a Volvo mechanic "back in the day". Remember the P1800S? Now THAT was a fun sports car...and safe too! Those were the days....$4,100 bucks out the door. A/C was the big option and we put that in at the dealership. (P-Car options list is really off the wall)
PS: Some Folks on this forum are strange..... (need a life???)
However, I must confess that I do stop to view the C8 forum once a day just for laughs. It surely does help me through the work day. especially the last few days. Wheeew!
Keep going guys...I have about five minutes left on my afternoon break.
PPS: I really love my VY Z06, but I have grown to love my 911-50 more. Must be Old Age.
.............But I was a Volvo mechanic "back in the day". Remember the P1800S? Now THAT was a fun sports car...and safe too! Those were the days....$4,100 bucks out the door. A/C was the big option and we put that in at the dealership. (P-Car options list is really off the wall)
PS: Some Folks on this forum are strange..... (need a life???)
However, I must confess that I do stop to view the C8 forum once a day just for laughs. It surely does help me through the work day. especially the last few days. Wheeew!
Keep going guys...I have about five minutes left on my afternoon break.
PPS: I really love my VY Z06, but I have grown to love my 911-50 more. Must be Old Age.
