Wouldn't it be Smart Marketing to Release the Top of the Line ME First?
08-22-2018, 12:57 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
so you want them to release an ultimate c8 then release a lower performing version and expect that to excite the masses? I don't see that as a smart strategy (probably why Chevy never used it) release a lower weight 500hp 1st
08-22-2018, 01:01 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Posts: 8,475
Received 331 Likes
on
241 Posts
I believe your theory has merit because I cannot see C7 offerings selling many (any) units for remaining 2-3 years with ME base model offered at only $5-10k above current base C7. IMO we'll see a DOHC V8 in ME however but likely not DOHC TT V8 with hybridization and not a higher performance version of LT1 OHV V8. Cadillac CT6 V-Sport with 4.2 DOHC TT V8 "predicted" to start at $100k before options so I use this as a temporary benchmark and go from there. Additionally an ME without DOHC V8 seems to be contradictory combining old school V8 rumble with revolutionary ME platform for GM's top performing car. We've already heard what is reported to be audio of the new ME in race car form and if correct that is not OHV V8. ME needs to scream technology, finesse and power.
08-22-2018, 01:41 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
So many reasons this would be a terrible idea for overall sales.
08-22-2018, 01:46 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
I don't think we have any idea what people "cross shop" but from my own conversations with exotic car owners, it's often very diverse. Given that the C8 and 720S are both toys, they may well be competing with power boats and in-ground pools for sales dollars.
08-22-2018, 01:46 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
Any half decent marketing strategy has to be based on a products merits first and foremost. You can only get away with marketing complete bullshit once, maybe twice but at some point even the most rabid fans will be turned off by the BS.
08-22-2018, 02:59 PM
#26
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 4,282
Received 5,299 Likes
on
1,972 Posts
Halo cars are meant to strengthen and sometimes change the perception of the brand. Why not do that right away to show those that this is a whole different animal?
The following users liked this post:
tooold2race (08-22-2018)
08-22-2018, 03:00 PM
#27
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 4,282
Received 5,299 Likes
on
1,972 Posts
08-22-2018, 03:11 PM
#28
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Western Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 4,282
Received 5,299 Likes
on
1,972 Posts
I'm saying develop GM's version of a low volume hypercar, then release the C8 a year later with the traditional release strategy of base model first year, Z06 next year, etc.
This halo hypercar would not be the same as the C8 (let's call it the Zora instead), but the C8 would be inspired by it and share many similar technologies and it would be inspired by the design and engineering of the halo car.
Think if Ford released a platform inspired by the technology and engineering of the GT. They used that halo car to create an ME car with similar looks and engineering, but with less exotic materials and other cost reductions, to create an attainable high volume ME platform. You don't think that would do well? You don't think that new platform would benefit from the brand and the respect the GT created for Ford (even if you rarely see them on the street)?
The following users liked this post:
tooold2race (08-22-2018)
08-22-2018, 03:15 PM
#29
A bit of perspective from an exotic car owner... as said in an earlier post, MOST exotic car owners don’t care about who’s faster, they care about exclusivity. I’ve owned a couple of Corvettes, Porsche’s, and now I’m on my second Mclaren..., Mclaren’s idea of a car is does it kick ***? They’re well balanced, fairly light, comfortable, and stupid fast. They make no apologies for what they are! Most people say they’re too temperamental and unreliable, but that’s largely a myth. Sure they have their share of problems, but doesn’t most manufacturers?
My point is this... Corvette is a wonderful car, but damn you see them on every street corner. I believe for the C8 to be highly successful, they need a bit of “exclusivity” and mystique. If the price is affordable to the masses little kids won’t have them hanging on their walls dreaming of one day owning one. I have a teenage kid in my neighborhood driving a brand new C7 Corvette. That was my breaking point of this car being highly regarded, and taken seriously in the more European car minded people. I’m as American as apple pie, however, I don’t want a car some pimple faced kid is driving... that’s my reasoning for believing GM needs to step up their game if they’re to be taken seriously in the ME platform.
My point is this... Corvette is a wonderful car, but damn you see them on every street corner. I believe for the C8 to be highly successful, they need a bit of “exclusivity” and mystique. If the price is affordable to the masses little kids won’t have them hanging on their walls dreaming of one day owning one. I have a teenage kid in my neighborhood driving a brand new C7 Corvette. That was my breaking point of this car being highly regarded, and taken seriously in the more European car minded people. I’m as American as apple pie, however, I don’t want a car some pimple faced kid is driving... that’s my reasoning for believing GM needs to step up their game if they’re to be taken seriously in the ME platform.
The following users liked this post:
tooold2race (08-22-2018)
08-22-2018, 03:18 PM
#30
A bit of perspective from an exotic car owner... as said in an earlier post, MOST exotic car owners don’t care about who’s faster, they care about exclusivity. I’ve owned a couple of Corvettes, Porsche’s, and now I’m on my second Mclaren..., Mclaren’s idea of a car is does it kick ***? They’re well balanced, fairly light, comfortable, and stupid fast. They make no apologies for what they are! Most people say they’re too temperamental and unreliable, but that’s largely a myth. Sure they have their share of problems, but doesn’t most manufacturers?
My point is this... Corvette is a wonderful car, but damn you see them on every street corner. I believe for the C8 to be highly successful, they need a bit of “exclusivity” and mystique. If the price is affordable to the masses little kids won’t have them hanging on their walls dreaming of one day owning one. I have a teenage kid in my neighborhood driving a brand new C7 Corvette. That was my breaking point of this car being highly regarded, and taken seriously in the more European car minded people. I’m as American as apple pie, however, I don’t want a car some pimple faced kid is driving... that’s my reasoning for believing GM needs to step up their game if they’re to be taken seriously in the ME platform.
My point is this... Corvette is a wonderful car, but damn you see them on every street corner. I believe for the C8 to be highly successful, they need a bit of “exclusivity” and mystique. If the price is affordable to the masses little kids won’t have them hanging on their walls dreaming of one day owning one. I have a teenage kid in my neighborhood driving a brand new C7 Corvette. That was my breaking point of this car being highly regarded, and taken seriously in the more European car minded people. I’m as American as apple pie, however, I don’t want a car some pimple faced kid is driving... that’s my reasoning for believing GM needs to step up their game if they’re to be taken seriously in the ME platform.
Some kids have rich parents... most teens can't swing a car that still goes for $40K on the used market with miles.
08-22-2018, 03:36 PM
#31
How about no..... Corvette was built on the fact that the average joe with a decent job can own one. It's inspirational yet realistically attainable for many. I couldn't care less about a Koenessig (sp?) or a Pagani or La Ferrari... unless I win the lottery those will never be options.
Some kids have rich parents... most teens can't swing a car that still goes for $40K on the used market with miles.
Some kids have rich parents... most teens can't swing a car that still goes for $40K on the used market with miles.
08-22-2018, 03:44 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
How about no..... Corvette was built on the fact that the average joe with a decent job can own one. It's inspirational yet realistically attainable for many. I couldn't care less about a Koenessig (sp?) or a Pagani or La Ferrari... unless I win the lottery those will never be options.
Some kids have rich parents... most teens can't swing a car that still goes for $40K on the used market with miles.
Some kids have rich parents... most teens can't swing a car that still goes for $40K on the used market with miles.
I just don't think GM is going to go the ultra low volume exclusive model with the new ME so launching it as a high end Halo car does not really buy them anything.
08-22-2018, 04:06 PM
#33
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Posts: 8,475
Received 331 Likes
on
241 Posts
ME will be completely new car above C7 line and not called C8 but rather Z1, first gen Zora. GM is working to grow customer base by appealing to new markets, young and old, foreign and domestic who prefer the look, performance, overall appeal and exclusivity of Mid Engine cars. ME halo car likely will have both LH and RH drive versions to be sold globally as recent trademark applications (ZORA) could possibly indicate. Cadillac has recently been very active with trademark and patent applications as well, GM is taking their game up a notch to compete in a global economy. I'm also confident GM will not abandon their faithful following of Corvette buyers from existing demographic and will produce FE C8 after the end of C7 run delivering advanced performance, features and value synonymous with the name Corvette.
The following 2 users liked this post by NemesisC5:
91ZR1 (08-22-2018),
tooold2race (08-22-2018)
08-22-2018, 05:14 PM
#34
ME will be completely new car above C7 line and not called C8 but rather Z1, first gen Zora. GM is working to grow customer base by appealing to new markets, young and old, foreign and domestic who prefer the look, performance, overall appeal and exclusivity of Mid Engine cars. ME halo car likely will have both LH and RH drive versions to be sold globally as recent trademark applications (ZORA) could possibly indicate. Cadillac has recently been very active with trademark and patent applications as well, GM is taking their game up a notch to compete in a global economy. I'm also confident GM will not abandon their faithful following of Corvette buyers from existing demographic and will produce FE C8 after the end of C7 run delivering advanced performance, features and value synonymous with the name Corvette.
08-22-2018, 09:47 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
Too much risk. What is this high priced "halo" car is a flop? What is a competitor comes out with a better "halo" car? Now you don't have the cash flow coming into bring out the "standard" car.
08-22-2018, 10:36 PM
#36
You raise a great point.
I don’t particularly agree that the best model should be first, However the ZR1 is always and has been released way too late in its lifecycle of that particular version of the Corvette.
Enough with the going away models. After seeing the pictures of the C8 race car, I am so glad I did not buy a ZR1. To buy a 140,000 car to be so obsolete in a year. I’m sure some people don’t mind dropping that much money on a car that is old news so quickly. However, I think in today’s world and with future buyers and the Internet and the quick exchange of information people don’t want old news anymore. I just don’t see this marketing strategy working for many more cycles. Just think how many automobiles are late to the game these days. Trends are rapidly changing and I just think that offering a ZR1 in the last year of the C7 was to late.
Mercedes BMW Audi and Porsche all test their HPO version simultaneously with their base new models. AMG, RS, Turbo S, M model. Yes late in the game these manufacturers will offer a very limited run track orientated special car. That has not been the ZR1.
I would say the closest car to that would be the ZL1 1LE.
I don’t mean to offend any ZR1 buyers, in fact I’m very frustrated. It’s very deflating to have waited for a car and wanted something so badly, yet to feel like you’re making the wrong decision on a purchase knowing that something so much better it’s going to be here in just such a short period of time it really sucks.
I am praying that the Z06 version of the C8 comes a year after the base model. If not, it will be time to move on!
I don’t particularly agree that the best model should be first, However the ZR1 is always and has been released way too late in its lifecycle of that particular version of the Corvette.
Enough with the going away models. After seeing the pictures of the C8 race car, I am so glad I did not buy a ZR1. To buy a 140,000 car to be so obsolete in a year. I’m sure some people don’t mind dropping that much money on a car that is old news so quickly. However, I think in today’s world and with future buyers and the Internet and the quick exchange of information people don’t want old news anymore. I just don’t see this marketing strategy working for many more cycles. Just think how many automobiles are late to the game these days. Trends are rapidly changing and I just think that offering a ZR1 in the last year of the C7 was to late.
Mercedes BMW Audi and Porsche all test their HPO version simultaneously with their base new models. AMG, RS, Turbo S, M model. Yes late in the game these manufacturers will offer a very limited run track orientated special car. That has not been the ZR1.
I would say the closest car to that would be the ZL1 1LE.
I don’t mean to offend any ZR1 buyers, in fact I’m very frustrated. It’s very deflating to have waited for a car and wanted something so badly, yet to feel like you’re making the wrong decision on a purchase knowing that something so much better it’s going to be here in just such a short period of time it really sucks.
I am praying that the Z06 version of the C8 comes a year after the base model. If not, it will be time to move on!
08-22-2018, 11:42 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
You raise a great point.
I don’t particularly agree that the best model should be first, However the ZR1 is always and has been released way too late in its lifecycle of that particular version of the Corvette.
Enough with the going away models. After seeing the pictures of the C8 race car, I am so glad I did not buy a ZR1. To buy a 140,000 car to be so obsolete in a year. I’m sure some people don’t mind dropping that much money on a car that is old news so quickly. However, I think in today’s world and with future buyers and the Internet and the quick exchange of information people don’t want old news anymore. I just don’t see this marketing strategy working for many more cycles. Just think how many automobiles are late to the game these days. Trends are rapidly changing and I just think that offering a ZR1 in the last year of the C7 was to late.
Mercedes BMW Audi and Porsche all test their HPO version simultaneously with their base new models. AMG, RS, Turbo S, M model. Yes late in the game these manufacturers will offer a very limited run track orientated special car. That has not been the ZR1.
I would say the closest car to that would be the ZL1 1LE.
I don’t mean to offend any ZR1 buyers, in fact I’m very frustrated. It’s very deflating to have waited for a car and wanted something so badly, yet to feel like you’re making the wrong decision on a purchase knowing that something so much better it’s going to be here in just such a short period of time it really sucks.
I am praying that the Z06 version of the C8 comes a year after the base model. If not, it will be time to move on!
I don’t particularly agree that the best model should be first, However the ZR1 is always and has been released way too late in its lifecycle of that particular version of the Corvette.
Enough with the going away models. After seeing the pictures of the C8 race car, I am so glad I did not buy a ZR1. To buy a 140,000 car to be so obsolete in a year. I’m sure some people don’t mind dropping that much money on a car that is old news so quickly. However, I think in today’s world and with future buyers and the Internet and the quick exchange of information people don’t want old news anymore. I just don’t see this marketing strategy working for many more cycles. Just think how many automobiles are late to the game these days. Trends are rapidly changing and I just think that offering a ZR1 in the last year of the C7 was to late.
Mercedes BMW Audi and Porsche all test their HPO version simultaneously with their base new models. AMG, RS, Turbo S, M model. Yes late in the game these manufacturers will offer a very limited run track orientated special car. That has not been the ZR1.
I would say the closest car to that would be the ZL1 1LE.
I don’t mean to offend any ZR1 buyers, in fact I’m very frustrated. It’s very deflating to have waited for a car and wanted something so badly, yet to feel like you’re making the wrong decision on a purchase knowing that something so much better it’s going to be here in just such a short period of time it really sucks.
I am praying that the Z06 version of the C8 comes a year after the base model. If not, it will be time to move on!
I am not sure where you got your data, Porsche doesn’t test their GTS/GT3/RS at the same time as their base 911/S and other vehicles. Same with Ferrari with the 488 verses their new higher performance Pista. They are tested and built later in the build cycle at least 12 plus months after the base cars hit the streets.. In the end all cars are depreciating assets it goes with the territory knowing the one you just purchased could not be as good as the next model coming out.
Last edited by fasttoys; 08-23-2018 at 12:22 AM.
08-22-2018, 11:45 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
I guess I don't get it..... Did all the buyers of high end performance Mustangs abandon the blue oval when they brought out the very limited edition GT supercar???
The Corvette faithful are NOT going to abandon the brand if GM brings out a high buck limited edition "ultimate" ME Corvette. Not only will that prestige flow down to the traditional Corvette line, it will set the expectation level for future features and performance.
What I seem to be hearing here is folks saying if a big dollar limited edition ME comes out as a halo car for Corvette, they will abandon the brand. That's BS. If you can't afford (or don't want to spend the bucks) to buy the 'top of the line' then you will just go somewhere else??? Really!!!
And by the way, think about all the 'buzz' the GT's are still getting (ie: when one sell at auction, etc) You don't have to see 'em on the road every day to get wide spread media attention. People are still talking about the GT, and just how many have YOU seen on the road???
The Corvette faithful are NOT going to abandon the brand if GM brings out a high buck limited edition "ultimate" ME Corvette. Not only will that prestige flow down to the traditional Corvette line, it will set the expectation level for future features and performance.
What I seem to be hearing here is folks saying if a big dollar limited edition ME comes out as a halo car for Corvette, they will abandon the brand. That's BS. If you can't afford (or don't want to spend the bucks) to buy the 'top of the line' then you will just go somewhere else??? Really!!!
And by the way, think about all the 'buzz' the GT's are still getting (ie: when one sell at auction, etc) You don't have to see 'em on the road every day to get wide spread media attention. People are still talking about the GT, and just how many have YOU seen on the road???
The following users liked this post:
JockItch (08-23-2018)
08-23-2018, 01:05 AM
#39
Le Mans Master
It would be a financial disaster. When the C7 came out, you had people and dealers fighting for allocations. They couldn't build them fast enough, and everyone that "only" paid MSRP thought they got a great deal. Heck, Mike Furman probably made enough commission in three months to pay cash for his own. There were delays because suppliers couldn't feed the factory, all of that on the BASE model. After a year and a half, sales started to cool and here comes the Z06. Now, I wonder how many of you that couldn't wait to get your hands on the 2014, were the fighting to be first in line for the Z06, probably more than a few. That's how it works, bringing the performance models out later makes people buy more cars more often. Then those trades hit the market and creates extended warranty revenue, parts revenue, aftermarket revenue, and on and on.
So if they bring the big dog out first, how many of them are going to trade down? No one. I am sure that there are not many that would or could, trade in a $200K vehicle every couple of years. While the release of the base ME's might bring on a shot in the arm, where can it go from there?
But the real deal is in recouping that retooling and r&d money. That's borrowed money for the most part, and it needs to be repaid, and fast. Selling a couple of thousand $200K cars will not get that done. They need to sell tens of thousands at MSRP right out of the gate to put it in the black. So no, putting the big dog out first would be a very bad plan for GM.
So if they bring the big dog out first, how many of them are going to trade down? No one. I am sure that there are not many that would or could, trade in a $200K vehicle every couple of years. While the release of the base ME's might bring on a shot in the arm, where can it go from there?
But the real deal is in recouping that retooling and r&d money. That's borrowed money for the most part, and it needs to be repaid, and fast. Selling a couple of thousand $200K cars will not get that done. They need to sell tens of thousands at MSRP right out of the gate to put it in the black. So no, putting the big dog out first would be a very bad plan for GM.
08-23-2018, 08:48 AM
#40
I am not sure where you got your data, Porsche doesn’t test their GTS/GT3/RS at the same time as their base 911/S and other vehicles. Same with Ferrari with the 488 verses their new higher performance Pista. They are tested and built later in the build cycle at least 12 plus months after the base cars hit the streets
Follow the car site called "Autospies.com". Many of the articles contain the usual magazine speculation. However, they have lots of good spies pictures from the ring. You will see that Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and BMW all test their Hipo versions along with the base versions. They will be in disguise, but you can see the vents, exhaust, brakes and wheels etc.
That is why they can "Generally" release the M versions, Audi S and RS, AMG, Turbo S etc. in 12-18 months after the base model.
IT IS NOT the last YEAR ever!!
Ferrari and Lambo's are really super cars out of the gate and handmade cars. I would not consider them in the same league as mass produced Corevette. The Pista and Lambo SV, Performante are special unique track cars.
I'm with you on the 12-18 months, just don't see waiting till the last year of a model when it is basically obsolete.
Follow the car site called "Autospies.com". Many of the articles contain the usual magazine speculation. However, they have lots of good spies pictures from the ring. You will see that Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and BMW all test their Hipo versions along with the base versions. They will be in disguise, but you can see the vents, exhaust, brakes and wheels etc.
That is why they can "Generally" release the M versions, Audi S and RS, AMG, Turbo S etc. in 12-18 months after the base model.
IT IS NOT the last YEAR ever!!
Ferrari and Lambo's are really super cars out of the gate and handmade cars. I would not consider them in the same league as mass produced Corevette. The Pista and Lambo SV, Performante are special unique track cars.
I'm with you on the 12-18 months, just don't see waiting till the last year of a model when it is basically obsolete.