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More OT details: his name was Andy House, a supposed exotic car salvage dealer.
Then, he went to jail for stealing a Ford GT. https://jalopnik.com/********-who-cr...ith-1756697622
So, I guess you can say he got "housed! https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Housed (definition 3)
Another fun fact is when he advertised the GT he never delivered on the Ford GT forum, he went by the handle "Darthvader"
So, I guess you can say his buyer got :vader:!
I "rejoined" recently. Only because I hadn't been active in a long time and couldn't remember my credentials. I've actually been a member for 15 or so years. I'm most active around the release of new models because--while I have religious faith in the quality and innovation of GM engineering--they're styling has been plagued by bizarre, inexplicable conservatism for decades.
The design is my business and passion. So there.
Yeah. I'm always "in market" for another Vette, new or used... Hope I've justified my existence sufficiently for you. And am damn sorry I care too much about Corvette as a great American car and brand.
P.S. I've owned everything from Porsche 911s to GTOs. Pontiac. My current Vette is a '66 L72 roadster. M22.
I was just curious I like the 66 and always thought those were one of the better-looking Corvettes. If the Corvette ME turns out not being my cup of tea I just move on and buy another toy. But after knowing the above info It makes sense to me because Design is your business and passion. Explains all the passionate words you use to describe the new ME
I "rejoined" recently. Only because I hadn't been active in a long time and couldn't remember my credentials. I've actually been a member for 15 or so years. I'm most active around the release of new models because--while I have religious faith in the quality and innovation of GM engineering--they're styling has been plagued by bizarre, inexplicable conservatism for decades.
Design is my business and passion. So there.
Yeah. I'm always "in market" for another Vette, new or used... Hope I've justified my existence sufficiently for you. And am damn sorry I care too much about Corvette as a great American car and brand.
P.S. I've owned everything from Porsche 911s to GTOs. Pontiac. My current Vette is a '66 L72 roadster. M22.
A thought. Since design is your "...business and passion," how about taking a crack at a render? Knowing that the test-driven C7 betas, even swirl camo only, looked pretty ugly (only to be a smash hit with most Corvette AND non-Corvette folks on the reveal), perhaps you could use your imagination to START WITH THE C8R (which I believe you like) and then simply make it street legal, and without the wing. I'm thinking that is the least disguised thing we've got going, and it is what I expect the final product (even the base) to look most like. Then we'll get a sense of what you like in the C8 vs. what you hate.
A thought. Since design is your "...business and passion," how about taking a crack at a render? Knowing that the test-driven C7 betas, even swirl camo only, looked pretty ugly (only to be a smash hit with most Corvette AND non-Corvette folks on the reveal), perhaps you could use your imagination to START WITH THE C8R (which I believe you like) and then simply make it street legal, and without the wing. I'm thinking that is the least disguised thing we've got going, and it is what I expect the final product (even the base) to look most like. Then we'll get a sense of what you like in the C8 vs. what you hate.
Thanks
Thanks....
Fair request!!! Thank you! Unfortunately, I have no practical design skills; I'm a manager. The graphic designers and art directors work for me. I subscribe to specification-based design. That is, we first decide what the design has to achieve both strategically and tactically (in terms of "brand'). Then we dive into the more subjective area of design direction.
The Corvette has always represented astounding engineering value--providing an insane level of performance combined with practicality for the money. The Vette is, IMHO, the greatest engineering and packaging achievement in the auto industry and there's no close second place. And the freaking design should be in the same category, dammit.
It has been sometimes. (I agree with you totally on the C7) It can be, and there really is no excuse for it not to be. No Vette has ever been "ugly." But there have been generations that are unnecessarily conservative.
In my field, I supply the general specs for the design and we go from there. Throughout the process, we always loop back and ask ourselves, "Is this meeting the specs?" But now that you ask, here's what my specs/goals would be for the C8:
1) Supremely functional in all aspects of performance envelope
2) Translatable, upgradable, to racing environment
3) Bold, industry-leading aesthetics--immediately identifiable; a signature brand statement. Differentiating.
4) Staying power. Design that will retain its power into the future and avoid current cliche.
5) Harmonious, integrated--absent excessive and or unnecessary styling elements
6) Sleek, sexy with some suggestion of "shark" heritage
7) Functional in both track and everyday environments
8) Adaptable to emerging technologies
I submit the C8.R does most of that. And this render does some of it (certainly better than the C8 we see currently though this one is still pretty conservative). Hope that helps describe my intentions.
Fair request!!! Thank you! Unfortunately, I have no practical design skills; I'm a manager. The graphic designers and art directors work for me. I subscribe to specification-based design. That is, we first decide what the design has to achieve both strategically and tactically (in terms of "brand'). Then we dive into the more subjective area of design direction.
The Corvette has always represented astounding engineering value--providing an insane level of performance combined with practicality for the money. The Vette is, IMHO, the greatest engineering and packaging achievement in the auto industry and there's no close second place. And the freaking design should be in the same category, dammit.
It has been sometimes. (I agree with you totally on the C7) It can be, and there really is no excuse for it not to be. No Vette has ever been "ugly." But there have been generations that are unnecessarily conservative.
In my field, I supply the general specs for the design and we go from there. Throughout the process, we always loop back and ask ourselves, "Is this meeting the specs?" But now that you ask, here's what my specs/goals would be for the C8:
1) Supremely functional in all aspects of performance envelope
2) Translatable, upgradable, to racing environment
3) Bold, industry-leading aesthetics--immediately identifiable; a signature brand statement. Differentiating.
4) Staying power. Design that will retain its power into the future and avoid current cliche.
5) Harmonious, integrated--absent excessive and or unnecessary styling elements
6) Sleek, sexy with some suggestion of "shark" heritage
7) Functional in both track and everyday environments
8) Adaptable to emerging technologies
I submit the C8.R does most of that. And this render does some of it (certainly better than the C8 we see currently though this one is still pretty conservative). Hope that helps describe my intentions.
Yes, fine, but what do you do when your design specification calls for the ability to carry 2 sets of golf clubs when you are designing a mid engine sports car.
An increase in the width of the frunk necessitates a decrease in the length of the front wishbones which is bad for suspension performance. Whereas an increase in the height of the frunk damages the looks of the front of the car and also hurts aerodynamic performance.
I, for one, hope that carrying 2 sets of golf clubs was not included in the design specifications.
I totally agree about the C8R. If the production car looks like the C8R, I will be a very happy camper!
Last edited by PurpleLion; 09-07-2018 at 05:27 PM.
You seem sincere in your hatred of the C8 design so I will bother with a response even though I know it will fall on deaf ears.
The C8.R is a fine looking race car--at least what we've seen through the camo. It isn't a reasonable car for an American household. The Corvette needs to be a car a 50-year-old dude tells his wife he is interested in buying now that the kids are off to college and she doesn't go "oh hell no". This doesn't mean it has to be conservative. It does mean it has to be reasonable. As an example, the McLaren Senna is an amazing car from a performance standpoint. The average Corvette buyer would feel silly driving around in something that looks like this:
It also isn't comfortable or practical for anything other than a track day. Or more realistically a few track hours. The street version of the Corvette also can't look like this:
Again as cool as the C7.R is isn't practical or salable to 30,000+ customers. The people complaining about the camoed C8 appearance say they want a bold design but then the examples they give are race cars or 2 million dollar exotics. That can't happen and would be a disaster for Corvette if it did happen. It is impossible to make a final judgement on a camoed car but when I see the C8 videos and spy shots I see a mix between:
and
The C3 influences are the large hump for the wheel wells (especially for the rear wheels) and the pointed nose, from the top view:
The rest of it looks a lot like a C7. You have said (over and over and over and over) that you think the C8 is trash. You are coming off as manic over something that is camoed and even through the camo looks basically like "a C7 with the cabin pushed back for the ME design". I get you have your design opinion. It doesn't matter how many times you say the same thing though. The C8 is going to look like a mid-engine C7 with some other Corvette influences. That doesn't make it boring or hideous. It makes it a Corvette that is likely going to sell in record numbers.
IMHO, the C8 revealed at Nurburgring this week combines the best attributes of the Ferrari 458 "envelope" and proportions and the C7 "ribbon" surfacing and feature shaping, with a touch of the wonderful C3 "Mako Shark" concept car. I think it also borrows a lot from the Aria "Fast Eddy" concept car.
I like it a lot, and I agree with you that GM will sell as many of these babies as they can build......at least 33,000 a year for a while.
You seem sincere in your hatred of the C8 design so I will bother with a response even though I know it will fall on deaf ears.
The C8.R is a fine looking race car--at least what we've seen through the camo. It isn't a reasonable car for an American household. The Corvette needs to be a car a 50-year-old dude tells his wife he is interested in buying now that the kids are off to college and she doesn't go "oh hell no". This doesn't mean it has to be conservative. It does mean it has to be reasonable. As an example, the McLaren Senna is an amazing car from a performance standpoint. The average Corvette buyer would feel silly driving around in something that looks like this:
It also isn't comfortable or practical for anything other than a track day. Or more realistically a few track hours.
Why do you use a picture with both doors open/up and not a picture like this?
I Can't help but feel GM will pull it off they are not going to let us all down. There several things I don't like on the camo mule like the 747 air intake what is that giant hole for? Also that spoiler, I was led to believe by there new patens they were going to have a cool a__ spoiler? So we will see I do have faith in them not to ruin our American sports car the awesome CORVETTE!!!!! I have loved them all my life and have had one most of it got have faith!!
Why do you use a picture with both doors open/up and not a picture like this?
On Thursday I was at the Mclaren dealer for two test drives 570S convertible and a 720S coupe. Ones I drove were outside demo cars and dirty so I took pictures of clean ones in show room. 720S was very nice much better than the 124C I was driving 3 years ago. Bad thing about Mclaren the depreciation is like a falling rock, a 300k plus 16 Mclaren 650s with 7400 miles for 173k preowne.
I am not a fan of the the above Senna race car it’s to over the top boy racer, I was at the Senna release party it sounded great but not good looking in person, I guess the eye of the beholder.
It appears the ME should have a clear glass view of the engine like my R8 and other ME’s. Not like the Mclarens which hides the engine since it sits so low in the frame.
IMHO, the C8 revealed at Nurburgring this week combines the best attributes of the Ferrari 458 "envelope" and proportions and the C7 "ribbon" surfacing and feature shaping, with a touch of the wonderful C3 "Mako Shark" concept car. I think it also borrows a lot from the Aria "Fast Eddy" concept car.
I like it a lot, and I agree with you that GM will sell as many of these babies as they can build......at least 33,000 a year for a while.
I'm growing more into the shape as well, i think the car will look a ton better once the car is revealed. Camo aint doing it justice.
Just magine though if the new Vette looked like the Aria save the front bumper and headlights.. now thatd look like a car Chevy would use to compete with the Ford GTs price bracket.
You seem sincere in your hatred of the C8 design so I will bother with a response even though I know it will fall on deaf ears.
The C8.R is a fine looking race car--at least what we've seen through the camo. It isn't a reasonable car for an American household. The Corvette needs to be a car a 50-year-old dude tells his wife he is interested in buying now that the kids are off to college and she doesn't go "oh hell no". This doesn't mean it has to be conservative. It does mean it has to be reasonable. As an example, the McLaren Senna is an amazing car from a performance standpoint. The average Corvette buyer would feel silly driving around in something that looks like this:
It also isn't comfortable or practical for anything other than a track day. Or more realistically a few track hours. The street version of the Corvette also can't look like this:
Again as cool as the C7.R is isn't practical or salable to 30,000+ customers. The people complaining about the camoed C8 appearance say they want a bold design but then the examples they give are race cars or 2 million dollar exotics. That can't happen and would be a disaster for Corvette if it did happen. It is impossible to make a final judgement on a camoed car but when I see the C8 videos and spy shots I see a mix between:
and
The C3 influences are the large hump for the wheel wells (especially for the rear wheels) and the pointed nose, from the top view:
The rest of it looks a lot like a C7. You have said (over and over and over and over) that you think the C8 is trash. You are coming off as manic over something that is camoed and even through the camo looks basically like "a C7 with the cabin pushed back for the ME design". I get you have your design opinion. It doesn't matter how many times you say the same thing though. The C8 is going to look like a mid-engine C7 with some other Corvette influences. That doesn't make it boring or hideous. It makes it a Corvette that is likely going to sell in record numbers.
We disagree: I see no reason whatsoever why the C8.R is some kind of outlandish, impractical design. I see no resemblance between the C8 and the C7. None. Zero. They are in fact, vastly different design directions. And there's also no reason WHATSOEVER, the design of the Vette can't be as class-leading as its engineering.
We disagree: I see no reason whatsoever why the C8.R is some kind of outlandish, impractical design.
Indeed we do. The only time this:
wouldn't be out of place on city streets would be downtown Miami. Whereas this:
is going to be driven in Detroit, and in Kansas City, and in Dallas, and all over the U.S. and will get tons of "awesome car dude!"
Anyway, like you said, we agree that we disagree. There's nothing more I will say to you regarding the C8 design. Enjoy that classic Vette of yours. If I ever win the lotto, I'll be looking for one of those.
wouldn't be out of place on city streets would be downtown Miami. Whereas this:
is going to be driven in Detroit, and in Kansas City, and in Dallas, and all over the U.S. and will get tons of "awesome car dude!"
Anyway, like you said, we agree that we disagree. There's nothing more I will say to you regarding the C8 design. Enjoy that classic Vette of yours. If I ever win the lotto, I'll be looking for one of those.
Thanks for post I would buy the C8R in a heart beat - the current C8 mule no thanks - looking at these side by side really opened my eyes - understand your conservative view but the visual beauty between these two vettes is obvious - conservative vs Wow imo which doesn't matter much of course
09-07-2018, 11:43 AM
