The cover is off for the first time!!!!!
#601
Melting Slicks
Whether your penultimate sentance is right or wrong (and there are excellent arguments for either strategy) I STRONGLY hope it is wrong. Having two different, but great, Vettes to choose from (and support in different IMSA racing classes) is this Corvette lover's ideal situation. I mean there are multiple Aston Martins, Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, BMW 2 seaters, Maseratis & Jags (well maybe not anymore) etc. Different models targeting different buyers just has to make it more fun for fans of each marque. Again, the economics really make no difference to me at all. I just like Vettes and the more the merrier.
I bet, if you took a poll, the vast majority of Vette lovers would love to see both FE and ME models gracing America's highways...
I bet, if you took a poll, the vast majority of Vette lovers would love to see both FE and ME models gracing America's highways...
It's much easier to address the issues with a ME (cargo space is the only meaningful one I can think of right now) and sort these out in the design rather than build a separate car just to satisfy those who want to get two sets of golf clubs in the car. Ferrari owners probably golf more often than corvette owners and the lack of cargo space does not seem to deter ownership.
While I agree the long sleek hood of the C3-C7 has been a defining feature of the corvette and looked great, it's time for change. The ME will allow the corvette to remain competitive with the entry level supercars that have upped their game since C7 development.
#602
Melting Slicks
Porsche has been building two different low volume sports cars, the 911 and Cayman/Boxster, for many years with no problem at all. BGA will build the FE and ME Corvettes on the same assembly line so the additional cost will be minimal. Why do you think GM expanded BGA capacity so much? Just so they could build the ME?
#603
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St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
I hope to see a ME Cadillac.
#604
Banned Scam/Spammer
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Shaka (10-04-2018)
#605
Burning Brakes
I can see a C7 in a Tux being a Caddy while the C8 is running around.
They're putting the 6G Camaro in a tux so hell, why not?
#606
Yes, the 4,044 lbs. of the W16 and luxury of the Bugatti Veyron has been a complete disappointment, no one wants that thing.
#607
Race Director
It would be an unprecedented departure for GM to produce two concurrent corvettes and this would dilute the engineering efforts and raise the unit cost of both vehicles. The since the C5, the high-end corvettes (Z06, ZR1) are so relatively affordable only because of their modular construction platform with the "base" corvette. Making a separate lower volume ME corvette would send the price well north of 100K and it would struggle in marketshare. GM knows that the market for 100K cars is very limited - while I acknowledge 100K buys a lot less than it did just 10 years ago, there are only a small fraction of people with the means to purchase a 100K sports car. The C4 ZR1, while a success for enthusiasts, was a sales failure for GM after 1991 in no small part due to the extreme cost difference between the base and ZR1 and dissimilarity of powertrain and body components. If 2 separate FE and ME platforms were going to be produced, I think we would have seen the FE mule running around and we have not.
It's much easier to address the issues with a ME (cargo space is the only meaningful one I can think of right now) and sort these out in the design rather than build a separate car just to satisfy those who want to get two sets of golf clubs in the car. Ferrari owners probably golf more often than corvette owners and the lack of cargo space does not seem to deter ownership.
While I agree the long sleek hood of the C3-C7 has been a defining feature of the corvette and looked great, it's time for change. The ME will allow the corvette to remain competitive with the entry level supercars that have upped their game since C7 development.
It's much easier to address the issues with a ME (cargo space is the only meaningful one I can think of right now) and sort these out in the design rather than build a separate car just to satisfy those who want to get two sets of golf clubs in the car. Ferrari owners probably golf more often than corvette owners and the lack of cargo space does not seem to deter ownership.
While I agree the long sleek hood of the C3-C7 has been a defining feature of the corvette and looked great, it's time for change. The ME will allow the corvette to remain competitive with the entry level supercars that have upped their game since C7 development.
I would respectfully dispute a few of your points, however:
(1) Most would argue that the failure of the '90's era ZR1 was due to the styling. The performance difference was stunning (for the time) but it looked like any other C4 Vette (not an ME vs. FE consideration). This of course was exacerbated by the LT1 and LT4 which really tightened things up given their lighter weight vs. the KoH.
(2) The absence of an FE mule could easily be explained if, in fact, the "new" FE were to be a 2022 model. They could be testing them right now with C7 bodies which, at an equivalent time in the cycle, the C7's were doing under C6 bodies. I am NOT, however saying this is the case. Just that it COULD be.
(3) Maintaining the existing C7 as a largely amortized lower-priced alternative for a few years would dilute roughly zero engineering effort. I would strongly agree with your logic to be all in on the ME at this time. That is my hope. When that's been out a few years, if successful, well the income stream might then support incrementally juicing up the ME and creating a new FE. Of course, they'll also be pursuing electric, hybrid, and who knows what else which might as well be on the ME platform. Truth be told, I don't see much effort on a next gen FE -- but carrying the basic C7 forward as long as they can make money on them could be a surprisingly long run (they made money on obsolete C3's forever, it seems.) Really, how expensive at this point are the C7 "bits" vs the allocated engineering and plant costs they now bear? I think not much.
I do agree that it is "time for a change." Duntoff's dream becoming reality is something all Vette fans should be excited about. I for one would prefer ME only going forward vs. the choice of only optimizing a less-ideal FE platform even given its advantages for some buyers. But, I still want both and frankly I hope that the GM analysts see this as a profit maximizing strategy. I could even create the business case; I just have zero data to defend it
Last edited by Rapid Fred; 10-04-2018 at 06:32 PM.
#608
A heavy FE vs a heavy ME, the ME performance advantages still apply.
The CTS-V has never meant to perform equally to a Z06.
Last edited by C7pimp; 10-04-2018 at 06:45 PM.
#609
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St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
Not sure I would consider some of the recent ME Ferraris as "purist sports cars". I would still like to see what GM can do with a ME Caddy even if it is more of a GT.
#610
Race Director
The problem with your comparison of the Corvette (single model) to the other is that they (Aston Martains, Ferraris, Lambos, etc) are brands and not models. IF Corvette was it's own separate sub-brand under GM then I could see that idea working. But as much as we love our Vettes...they are not a brand...only a singular model line. But, I like that idea.
Sure they are Chevys, but consider this analogy: Prius (of all cars ). They are all Toyotas, and originally they were one model. Then Toyota realized you could create different Prii (is that a word?) for different folks, and they sub-modeled them https://www.autotrader.com/car-revie...fferenc-223750. I suspect it has worked out well for them (though they are apparently down to 2 lines today) because "Prius" means something more than the first model out there. Well, so does "Corvette."
#611
Le Mans Master
Main point of ME is the weight balance, and better traction.
#613
Safety Car
mean 3 Corvette models. Heck, the Solstace shared many parts with a C5 Vette. Watch Lutz's video again.
There is no space for a bag of golf clubs in this car.
#614
Race Director
My nightmare situation is for GM to keep the C7 in full production and to have the ME as a halo car costing $200,000+ and only producing 1,000 or less per year.
#615
Melting Slicks
The Stingray FE will start at $60K with the 500 hp Cadillac twin turbo V8 and 10 speed AT. The 2019 Supra will be the main competitor.
Zora will sell 10K and Stingray will sell 25K.
#617
Agreed! Notice the low front height and the low hood. This is both a good looking front end design for an ME and also an aerodynamic design. Unfortunately, it looks like the C8 will sacrifice looks and aerodynamic performance by using a higher hood to promote luggage space!
No free lunch!
No free lunch!
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rsvette12 (10-05-2018)
#619
The Zora ME will start at $75K to compete with the 2019 Cayman GT4 which will be about $15K more.
The Stingray FE will start at $60K with the 500 hp Cadillac twin turbo V8 and 10 speed AT. The 2019 Supra will be the main competitor.
Zora will sell 10K and Stingray will sell 25K.
The Stingray FE will start at $60K with the 500 hp Cadillac twin turbo V8 and 10 speed AT. The 2019 Supra will be the main competitor.
Zora will sell 10K and Stingray will sell 25K.
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fasttoys (10-06-2018)
#620
Melting Slicks
You are really determined there will be a new FE Vette in the next couple years! My opinion, there will just be a ME only next generation and the sales will be great as it's even more exotic-like and the performance of course improves with the advantages of mid engine. The price will be like 5k more comparing base to base C7, then the performance models will follow the next few years. Maybe the C9 generation will be the time to brand Corvette into it's own line with a FE grand tourer, ME supercar competitor and an SUV maybe. I'm sure they'll find a way to fit the golf clubs in the ME...
A Zora really doesn't motivate me to buy, especially if it looks like the photos we have seen. Yes, it will have better traction but the rear spoiler alone is enough to reject it. I am sure I'm not the only one who feels this way and GM knows it. They are not about to let traditional Corvette buyers go to a Supra or Jag.