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40-60 weight distribution makes sense for a rear drive car, for all the reasons cited, but without stability control mid-engine and rear engine (911) cars can easily oversteer. Front engine cars understeer, which for most drivers is a good thing.
Sports cars are a special niche and stability control has made their performance more accessible, so sports cars have naturally followed race cars to mid / rear engine. One interesting trend that may further influence sports car design is four-wheel drive. That eventuality may push weight distribution back toward 50-50. Two really interesting race cars to consider are the STP turbine cars which were both four-wheel drive, to spread the tremendous torque out over all four wheels. In both the original car and the Lotus follow-on, all four tires were the same size and the weight distribution was 50-50. As sports cars become "more electric". You may see a similar trend.
What's the REAL reason for putting the motor in the back of a Corvette? .. I mean, ... 99% of all other vehicles have the engine where it belongs, .. *In the front*! This just seems like some novelty at it's core, to me. I know the claims of better handling, ..but the current Vette handles SO awesomely, ... what more is needed? 51/49 front bias, as opposed to 51/49 rear bias, ... really??? The generated talk might gen up some addiional sales, .. so I guess so!
You have received a lot of very good technical answers. The other issue is of course, will any of this make a true (meaning noticeable and exploitable) difference to Corvette owners?
I believe the answer to that will vary by the owner but that for the majority of Corvette owners the difference will be small in actual experience. Of course the view out the front of the road ahead will improve significantly and that will probably be the single biggest difference felt on a typical drive by the new mid-engine owner. It gives you a greater sense of immersion with a mid-engine car and feeling very connected to the road due to the greater visibility. As for handling, on the road the driver who pushes hard enough to actually experience handling differences should notice a difference when driving enthusiastically in the turns. Not an overwhelming difference but it will be noticeable to the Discerning driver. If someone really steps on the throttle they should notice greater traction and stability with the Mid Engine design under hard straight-line acceleration.
But a lot of the core, at the limit handling benefits you get from a Mid Engine versus a front engine really won't be experienced by the vast majority of owners. We know that most high-end sports car owners, Corvette included, don't go to the track. Of those that do go to the track the majority only go a few times. So most owners of a mid-engine car never learn to drive well enough to really appreciate the high limit handling benefits inherent in the design. Of course there are people on this forum who track their cars hard and often. They have developed the skill and ability to push a modern high power sports car near or at the limit of grip. Those folks are going to likely love the Mid Engine transition. But they are a small minority and that is true no matter what marque you pick.
If so few people will actually benefit in a significant way then why are they moving in this direction with the C8 or at least a variant of it? I think the absolute performance numbers, even though they mean nothing in practical experience to the vast majority of owners, sells cars. I also think the racing program helps to sell cars and the Mid Engine design will benefit the race team. Many people who buy sports cars want to feel like they have the fastest or one of the fastest machines. They may not know how to use it or may know a little and never really choose to push the vehicle anywhere near its limit. But part of that performance Aura is why they buy it in the first place. You can kind of imagine the conversation now. "Why did you buy a new Corvette? What's so different about the new one?" " Well, the new one is mid-engined." Three-quarters of the people who ask will just say "oh" and not have any clue what that means. The other quarter will ask and it would be fascinating to hear the answers new mid-engine Corvette owners give when someone says but what does that actually do? Quite a few people on this forum might get that answer correct but, let's face it, a whole lot of people who will end up buying the car will not, lol.
All that being said, as far as I can tell by all of the Spy footage, I would guess I'll be lusting after the car when it's finally released!
This is my biggest concern maintenance. I worked on my own R8 it was a nightmare when you had any issues just because the engine was in the rear. AC compressor goes out it’s a $750 dollar part that is shaft driven, the motor has to be removed from the car to replace it (removal of motor $$$). Replacing the exhaust was a 28 hour+ Audi book job. I did it my self, had to remove the bumper, frame parts & the list was so long it was crazy.
Pros of mid engine .......
1) You have less weight on the far ends of the body, which means less rotational mass in/out of turns. Pitch and roll dynamics would be a lot more improved because of this. Basically look @ c5/6/7 design: engine in front, trans in back, nearly 50/50 weight distribution. However, that weight is spread across the front to back of the car; the mid engine would be a more dense center of gravity in the chassis if that makes sense.
2) Weight.. as someone previously mentioned, you would have less exhaust, no torque tube thru center of car, etc..
3) Slight bias of weight toward back would help with 0-60 launches
4) MIGHT be actually easier to manufacture with mating the engine cradle + body (I'm speculating on this tho)
5) Creates new product that will take aim at $100k+ mid engine sports car market
Last edited by mammoth713; 09-12-2018 at 12:49 AM.
2) Weight.. as someone previously mentioned, you would have less exhaust, no torque tube thru center of car, etc..
Again, Ferrari currently has the 812 Superfast and 488GTB, front mounted mid engine and rear mounted mid engine. Their physical dimensions are nearly identical (in fact, the Superfast is 1/2” bigger in all direction), but the engines are a V12 vs V8. The block size along should, all things being equal, make the Superfast 200-300lbs heavier. But it’s BARELY 100 lbs difference.
All things being equal, Ferrari’s don’t have your typical monetary and material constraints, so we’re not talking about using unobtainium metal on the Superfast to make it lighter than the 488....yet take out the weight of the engine, the front mount mid engine chassis of the 812 Superfast is clearly the lighter chassis.
no one has really compared a strictly front va mid mount engine chassis with the same engine, but this is about as close to an apples to apples case here. And unlike front mounted engines, mid and rear mounted engines can’t have a lightweight front mounting subframe that sits on frame rails, the rear subframe MUST be beefed up big time to accommodate ALL the mounting for the engine, transmission, and diff.
You can see how much beefier the rear subframe is in all the leaked engineering diagram vs the C7’s relatively simple and light looking rear subframe.
I still EXPECT the C8 mid mount engine Corvette to weigh 150-200 lbs heavier, if it’s using the same 6.2 L V8. It’s just the nature of the beast.
Outside of the weight, I agree completely with the dynamic advantages of a rear mount mid engine design.
The negative side of ME will be the maintenance costs $$$..
Will you have to lower the complete rear to work on engine or lift the body off of the frame on the C8?
Currently Ford is doing that with their trucks, they lift the cab off the chassis to get to the motor..
This is a worrisome thought when it comes to ME DIY repairs..
I have a mid-engine Toyota MR2 Spyder I bought before my Corvette, and yep, you have to lift the body, which allows you to leave the engine/transaxle/wheels on the ground. It's actually easier to get the engine out this way. The easiest way is with a two post lift, but many guys removed the motor on a MR2 in their garage by blocking the front wheels and lifting the rear with a cherry picker or hoist, then rolling the rear out. I'm getting ready to replace the motor in my MR2.
Again, Ferrari currently has the 812 Superfast and 488GTB, front mounted mid engine and rear mounted mid engine. Their physical dimensions are nearly identical (in fact, the Superfast is 1/2” bigger in all direction), but the engines are a V12 vs V8. The block size along should, all things being equal, make the Superfast 200-300lbs heavier. But it’s BARELY 100 lbs difference.
All things being equal, Ferrari’s don’t have your typical monetary and material constraints, so we’re not talking about using unobtainium metal on the Superfast to make it lighter than the 488....yet take out the weight of the engine, the front mount mid engine chassis of the 812 Superfast is clearly the lighter chassis.
no one has really compared a strictly front va mid mount engine chassis with the same engine, but this is about as close to an apples to apples case here. And unlike front mounted engines, mid and rear mounted engines can’t have a lightweight front mounting subframe that sits on frame rails, the rear subframe MUST be beefed up big time to accommodate ALL the mounting for the engine, transmission, and diff.
You can see how much beefier the rear subframe is in all the leaked engineering diagram vs the C7’s relatively simple and light looking rear subframe.
I still EXPECT the C8 mid mount engine Corvette to weigh 150-200 lbs heavier, if it’s using the same 6.2 L V8. It’s just the nature of the beast.
Outside of the weight, I agree completely with the dynamic advantages of a rear mount mid engine design.
Well sure yeah the back is going to have to be beefed up, but I'd expect the mid engine to weigh in at what the c7 weighs after it's all said and done (crash safety shiz, some weight savings here and there, then some weight additions for structure...). Time will tell
Last edited by mammoth713; 09-12-2018 at 04:54 PM.
09-11-2018, 09:50 PM
