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The C8.R is going to a mid engine to compete better with the Ford GT, 488 GTE and Porsche 911 RSR. Both the road and race car are developed side by side. The C7 chassis is reaching it's performance limit for front mid engine layout. Mid engine is the next step to keep pushing the performance forward.
Imo, and from experience, FE rwd cars tend to be easier to drive at THEIR limits than an ME rwd car because the FE car's front weight bias keeps you the driver in check. ME cars and more so RE cars, dont make you feel that way until it's at the point of no return.. and only the best drivers can get it back because what you need to do is not instinctual lol.
there are going to be SO MANY C8s with repainted panels from the same guys going from FE to ME it isn't going to be funny. The stability control in the C8 is going to be so intrusive. Watch. And it will need to be.
insurance will be through roof as well. Nightmare coming. And I want it to succeed. Just a realist. .
What's the REAL reason for putting the motor in the back of a Corvette? .. I mean, ... 99% of all other vehicles have the engine where it belongs, .. *In the front*! This just seems like some novelty at it's core, to me. I know the claims of better handling, ..but the current Vette handles SO awesomely, ... what more is needed? 51/49 front bias, as opposed to 51/49 rear bias, ... really??? The generated talk might gen up some addiional sales, .. so I guess so!
interesting looking car, stew. i'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet.
If it was just on a skid pad, 50/50 would be fine but under acceleration and braking, the weight should be biased to the rear. Power on understeer is a thing, but most of that will be handled in the stability control. Iif you run with the nannies off, We are going to have to get used to lift throttle to induce steer - which isn’t my favorite.
It's more like 41/59 and ya can take it from there.
PC
When one gets to this kind of weight bias, one has to be very careful about lifting the car. More than a few Lotus Elises tried to fall off a lift backwards as people were not strictly following the lifting points, some succeeded
Drove a McLaren 12C recently and have driven a number of mid-engine cars all they way down to the old MR2 Spyder (ugly with a weak 4 banger but fun as hell!).
The McLaren absolutely blew my mind with how it effortlessly put down the power and how direct it felt to drive - truly the most outstanding piece of automotive engineering I've ever felt in every possible way (as it should be for the moola). Drove a friend's C7 Z06 recently as well (and it's on my short list for my next car). While it felt nearly as fast as the McLaren, I was pleasantly surprised at the outstanding steering feel, etc, the level of torque was almost TOO high - it just didn't seem to be able to put the power down and mag tests seem to play this out. In contrast the McLaren would just wind up and rev SO fast and it seemed the tires only ever lost grip only slightly - it would just hook up and slingshot like mad when I hit the gas.
Anyhow, point being, I see Corvette engineer's frustrations with the limits of the FE platform. I think the ME car will be able to "punch above its weight" similar to other ME cars relative to its power output and will provide a different and exciting driving experience as other ME cars do that just can't be captured in road test data. I love Vettes and find the handling to be great fun and pretty easy to manage at the limit. And there's no denying their performance, especially lately - the capabilities are really amazing. But I still see the reason these guys have been itching for the ME platform. Can't wait to drive one some day and see what is similar and what is different. That's what loving cars is all about - the flavors make it interesting. If they were all the same, that would be boring, right?
Drove a McLaren 12C recently and have driven a number of mid-engine cars all they way down to the old MR2 Spyder (ugly with a weak 4 banger but fun as hell!).
The McLaren absolutely blew my mind with how it effortlessly put down the power and how direct it felt to drive - truly the most outstanding piece of automotive engineering I've ever felt in every possible way (as it should be for the moola). Drove a friend's C7 Z06 recently as well (and it's on my short list for my next car). While it felt nearly as fast as the McLaren, I was pleasantly surprised at the outstanding steering feel, etc, the level of torque was almost TOO high - it just didn't seem to be able to put the power down and mag tests seem to play this out. In contrast the McLaren would just wind up and rev SO fast and it seemed the tires only ever lost grip only slightly - it would just hook up and slingshot like mad when I hit the gas.
Anyhow, point being, I see Corvette engineer's frustrations with the limits of the FE platform. I think the ME car will be able to "punch above its weight" similar to other ME cars relative to its power output and will provide a different and exciting driving experience as other ME cars do that just can't be captured in road test data. I love Vettes and find the handling to be great fun and pretty easy to manage at the limit. And there's no denying their performance, especially lately - the capabilities are really amazing. But I still see the reason these guys have been itching for the ME platform. Can't wait to drive one some day and see what is similar and what is different. That's what loving cars is all about - the flavors make it interesting. If they were all the same, that would be boring, right?
I feel what you are saying, and in fact have gotten my interest piqued in what this platform might feel like handling wise. Reminds me of the time back in 1984 when I bought my first Honda Prelude. May sound crazy to those not from that time, but that restyled model was introduced, and found to be an exceptionally high handling performance vehicle! This car was an absolute blast to drive compared to most anything else on the road at the time. Road & Track Magazine did a "Best Handling" car available comparison, and narrowed down the winner to be between the Honda Prelude and the Porsche 944. What was key, was the exceptionally light weight of the car. It was just so instantly toss-able and damped immediately due to the light weight. If the new ME Corvette saves any weight in this conversion, that should pay big dividends.
Theoretically it's to put more weight on the rear axle and have the polar moment of inertia closer to the center of the car as it turns. This lets turning easier, quicker and more stable. Having less weight on the front axle also has benefits in steering control and feel.
One other benefit is the sound, which is pretty cool coming over your shoulder. Also the car interior runs cooler so you can save some weight on heat protection.
The downside is that they are more complicated, more expensive, require more cooling, a more complex exhaust system in a tighter package, and are more difficult to work on.
This. I believe Motor Trend had an article of the Zr1 talking about how the platform as a whole is basically at its limit. Besides the vette, viper and maybe the GTR, their really arent many front engine cars out there competing with the top end cars. Making a FE car as competitive as a ME car is hard, and GM for the longest time has been able to keep up with the competition despite this. I think they are ready to go the next step though with this next generation. The only exception I could think of is the Aston Martin Vulcan, but that car can only be driven on the track, plus its $2.3 million.
love the Vulcan. I heard a British car group spent a fortune on a Street legal conversion. They must be having fun!
add the Mb AMG GT and two of the top five fastest Ferraris (based on Fiorano testing), the F12tdf and the 812 superfast (just released).
Only their electric super car the LaFerrari beats the f12tdf
I've read the handling advantage of an ME car over an FE is analogous to a figure skater. When she's spinning and and her arms are extended she can only spin so fast but when she pulls her arms in her rate of spin increases. With extended arms the skater is like a front engine car with more weight distributed at the ends of the the axis, slowing the rate of turn. With tucked in arms the skater is like a mid-engine car with more weight centrally located increasing the rate of turn. Makes sense to me.
I've never driven a Lambo, Ferrari or Mclaren. My C7 GS handles like nothing I've ever experienced, and wonder how much better it can get? I assume, as do you ... having less weight over the wheels that steer makes it more nimble, but is that better? Nimble can be thought of as nervous, at times. If a motor in the back has all these positive virtues, it would seem you'd see it applied far more in the marketplace.
P.S., .. That video of the ME running at the Nurburgring didn't *appear* to be handling any faster than any other Vette or Camaro I've seen there.
Go drive a 458 and then let us know how it compares to your GS...
Originally Posted by vndkshn
Seen the ZR1 power?
Comparing a Corvette with a car that is so heavy it has it's own gravity is ridiculous.
Very true.
For the millionth time: the Hellcat/Demon is a muscle car, the Vette is a sportscar.
Originally Posted by fasttoys
Had a 15/Z06 and felt the HP overwhelmed the rear under hard acceleration, could not imagine a new ZR1.
Yes, it surely does...and not in a good way.
It's rather frustrating IMO.
Expand handling, braking and acceleration capabilities plus have a rear mid engine design forces owners of previous generations to let go of their oride and joys as they cant pretend their awesome sports cars are anywhere near the track performance of the upcoming c8.
game over and 40 or 50 years in the making.
who here hasnt heard the rumor of a rear mid engine corvette?
besides gm needs room to stretch the 2 plus 2 camaro out of a retro theme and into a sleek 2 plus 2 corvette body style...
that alpha chassis is a performance champ.
the corvette team had to make and take the leap...to stay the clear winner.
Thanks mitchydkid! You are correct that 50/50 was never correct to begin with. Many exotics go up to 58% of their weight on their rear wheels.
It didn’t have to be an exotic for GM to make a F...... (Hidden to prevent strokes) back in 1988. It had a 43/57 wt distribution thus handled great. UNDER POWERED for sure. CANCELLED it was. BUT, as a DD for me in my 30’s (when a Corvette was out of my price range) traveling to work 30 Miles/day even plowing through 8” road snow. It never let me down. My later new ‘93 Camaro did as its FE rear wheel traction sucked.
My experience is not at the same level as others in this thread with exotic MEs in their past. It is the same in that we can’t wait for what GM is about to offer us, and now raised up to the Corvette level. I’m truly excited.
When one gets to this kind of weight bias, one has to be very careful about lifting the car. More than a few Lotus Elises tried to fall off a lift backwards as people were not strictly following the lifting points, some succeeded
Yikes, had not considered that! Future thread title, When lifting your new C8........(pic) Crunch.
It didn’t have to be an exotic for GM to make a F...... (Hidden to prevent strokes) back in 1988. It had a 43/57 wt distribution thus handled great. UNDER POWERED for sure. CANCELLED it was. BUT, as a DD for me in my 30’s (when a Corvette was out of my price range) traveling to work 30 Miles/day even plowing through 8” road snow. It never let me down. My later new ‘93 Camaro did as its FE rear wheel traction sucked.
My experience is not at the same level as others in this thread with exotic MEs in their past. It is the same in that we can’t wait for what GM is about to offer us, and now raised up to the Corvette level. I’m truly excited.
I had a similar experience 3 decades ago with a different mid-engine underpowered car also beginning with an "F" (think rust.)
While it had no acceleration to speak of, there really is something to the "feel" of such cars. Very go-kart-like; great fun. Only sold it because it really was junk. But, fun junk. C8 should be an absolute blast and much different than our Vettes -- and most definitely NOT junk...
09-09-2018, 10:02 PM
