Do people really not understand what Corvette means?
09-20-2018, 11:28 PM
#81
When I was cross-shopping for my C7, I felt the competition was way overpriced for what you get compared to a C7. A 1LT base model C7 with discounts from a forum dealer would only be about 1.5X the price of the Mazda MX5 mentioned above, yet would have 2X more room and 3X outperformance from the engine and 4X the looks for an overall 3X the value. The Mazda MX5, FRS, BRZs which were around low $30K price-wise felt like a ripoff compared to a Corvette.
Last edited by fumbling; 09-21-2018 at 12:27 AM.
09-21-2018, 12:02 AM
#82
I had a young co-Worker go to Spring Mountain on vacation. He went to the school and got to drive all the high end cars. I asked him which one was his favorite and why. He said the Z06, the reason? Because he said it was a car he knew he could actually own someday.
09-21-2018, 03:18 PM
#84
Safety Car
What car can't someone actually own someday?
I recently saw a very nice Rolls Royce for sale for $12,000. I think it was a 1984 model. Had it been on my bucket list, it could had been my someday car. In 1994, my someday Ferrari 308 and 328 GTS was for sale for $32,000 in Phoenix.The auto store also had a Countach, which was my wet dream, but at $66,000 for a restored wreck, was still outside of my someday price, but close. In hindsight, I should had sold a kidney and bought it.
I recently saw a very nice Rolls Royce for sale for $12,000. I think it was a 1984 model. Had it been on my bucket list, it could had been my someday car. In 1994, my someday Ferrari 308 and 328 GTS was for sale for $32,000 in Phoenix.The auto store also had a Countach, which was my wet dream, but at $66,000 for a restored wreck, was still outside of my someday price, but close. In hindsight, I should had sold a kidney and bought it.
09-21-2018, 04:28 PM
#85
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09, '14-'15-'16-'17-'18
What car can't someone actually own someday?
I recently saw a very nice Rolls Royce for sale for $12,000. I think it was a 1984 model. Had it been on my bucket list, it could had been my someday car. In 1994, my someday Ferrari 308 and 328 GTS was for sale for $32,000 in Phoenix.The auto store also had a Countach, which was my wet dream, but at $66,000 for a restored wreck, was still outside of my someday price, but close. In hindsight, I should had sold a kidney and bought it.
I recently saw a very nice Rolls Royce for sale for $12,000. I think it was a 1984 model. Had it been on my bucket list, it could had been my someday car. In 1994, my someday Ferrari 308 and 328 GTS was for sale for $32,000 in Phoenix.The auto store also had a Countach, which was my wet dream, but at $66,000 for a restored wreck, was still outside of my someday price, but close. In hindsight, I should had sold a kidney and bought it.
A few years ago, a friend of a friend had a really nice-looking BMW coupe for sale and he invited me to come and take a look. I had been thinking about getting rid of my 2001 Buick and getting something newer and nicer for my “other car.” But after I did some research on repairs and upkeep on that particular model, I declined due to the costs of repairing the items in need of attention as it was.
Last edited by ExRedRacer; 09-21-2018 at 04:29 PM.
09-21-2018, 05:13 PM
#86
Safety Car
It is not just the purchase price. It’s the cost of maintenance and upkeep that is at times prohibitive. Say for example you buy the $12,000 RR. You might need that much to get it or keep it running. Same for the other exotics you mentioned.
A few years ago, a friend of a friend had a really nice-looking BMW coupe for sale and he invited me to come and take a look. I had been thinking about getting rid of my 2001 Buick and getting something newer and nicer for my “other car.” But after I did some research on repairs and upkeep on that particular model, I declined due to the costs of repairing the items in need of attention as it was.
A few years ago, a friend of a friend had a really nice-looking BMW coupe for sale and he invited me to come and take a look. I had been thinking about getting rid of my 2001 Buick and getting something newer and nicer for my “other car.” But after I did some research on repairs and upkeep on that particular model, I declined due to the costs of repairing the items in need of attention as it was.
OEM, and is beginning to happen with the C6. And I guess the affordable price is subjective. I see 2008 Z06's going for $32k, which seems affordable, assuming you want a 10 year old car. I guess it's better than not having a Z06 at all. My price for someday owning a Corvette was $50,000 for a GS, so that was what I paid for a used one. I also don't want an old car that I would have to hunt around to source parts for it, even if it was a cool car. I went through that as a teenager. I doubt you could find a water pump for that Rolls at the local Autozone parts store.
09-25-2018, 11:36 PM
#89
Team Owner
I love Corvettes but I'm going to buy the highest performing car that I can afford, Porsche, Mustang, Corvette, whatever. I am not brand or model loyal, I just want to drive fast, look good and have fun.
09-26-2018, 12:31 AM
#90
Drifting
As others cited, Bob Lutz is “speculating” the first model is a “base” that he expects to be $5k over the C7 base. Only later will there be premium models and i believe he’s speculating an electric hybrid.
09-26-2018, 01:12 AM
#92
These 100% are the smaller non-slotted brakes of an inexpensive, low option base model.
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09-26-2018, 01:15 AM
#93
Your $90k to $100k guess is waaaaay off.
Last edited by blipit_; 09-26-2018 at 01:15 AM.
09-26-2018, 08:41 AM
#94
Race Director
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St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
Yeah I think it comes down to one of two options, with evidence pointing to option 1 but option 2 is still a possibility until GM makes an official announcement.
Option 1. The C8 is ME and ME only. There's a modest price bump for the base model (models with things like twin turbos and hybrid front wheel drive could of course be much higher in price) which lets most of the people that either bought or considered a C7 consider a C8 ME. At least from a price perspective.
Option 2. The C8 ME base price is significantly higher than the C7 base price. And by significant I mean most people in the C7 market space are priced out of the C8 ME. Under this option, the C7 FE continues for a bit and then a refreshed FE C8 or C7.5 is released for those people that either can't afford or don't like the C8 ME.
What I don't think is likely is option 3.
Option 3. The C8 is ME only and the base price starts at 40%+ more than the C7. GM tells most of the Corvette faithful that they basically stopped making Corvettes they can buy--shut up and go buy a Camaro.
I mean it's possible of course but I can't imagine it. Trying to expand the market segment? That's good business and something GM would be happy to see happen. Totally abandoning the primary market segment and hoping to attract a completely new set of potential buyers? Very risky and as I've said before auto manufacturers are notoriously risk adverse. The Corvette business and brand is worth many billions of dollars. It's easy for an internet armchair quarter back to say "Leave that all behind! Making Corvette as awesome as can be, even if that means most Corvette fans can't ever buy one!" When you actually hold the reigns to the reputation and value of the Corvette brand you are not going to do that.
Option 1. The C8 is ME and ME only. There's a modest price bump for the base model (models with things like twin turbos and hybrid front wheel drive could of course be much higher in price) which lets most of the people that either bought or considered a C7 consider a C8 ME. At least from a price perspective.
Option 2. The C8 ME base price is significantly higher than the C7 base price. And by significant I mean most people in the C7 market space are priced out of the C8 ME. Under this option, the C7 FE continues for a bit and then a refreshed FE C8 or C7.5 is released for those people that either can't afford or don't like the C8 ME.
What I don't think is likely is option 3.
Option 3. The C8 is ME only and the base price starts at 40%+ more than the C7. GM tells most of the Corvette faithful that they basically stopped making Corvettes they can buy--shut up and go buy a Camaro.
I mean it's possible of course but I can't imagine it. Trying to expand the market segment? That's good business and something GM would be happy to see happen. Totally abandoning the primary market segment and hoping to attract a completely new set of potential buyers? Very risky and as I've said before auto manufacturers are notoriously risk adverse. The Corvette business and brand is worth many billions of dollars. It's easy for an internet armchair quarter back to say "Leave that all behind! Making Corvette as awesome as can be, even if that means most Corvette fans can't ever buy one!" When you actually hold the reigns to the reputation and value of the Corvette brand you are not going to do that.
09-26-2018, 09:40 AM
#95
Le Mans Master
The starting base price of the C8 will be within a few percentage points of the starting base price of the C7.
However actual transactions prices will be 20% apart based on C7s being blown out well below invoice and C8s often being marked up above MSRP.
However actual transactions prices will be 20% apart based on C7s being blown out well below invoice and C8s often being marked up above MSRP.
09-26-2018, 11:03 AM
#96
Excellent post. However, and elegant or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, the remodeled Bowling Green plant is actually designed to turn out a lower production number than the previous design. I believe the number is 8000 fewer cars. To me that says, GM is planning for a lower production run, with a corresponding higher price. IMHO, your option #2 was suggested in another thread. As I recall the estimate was 13,000 ME cars and 13,000 FE cars. All the FE will be base and/or Z51 with the wide body giving way to the ME cars. The ME will progress to higher performance models, the FE will be redesigned in 2022 or 2023. Interesting that this proposal, your option #2, follows the Porsche business model which is, two different platforms with multiple models on each platform. We'll soon find out.
09-26-2018, 11:14 AM
#97
We'll see. If GM believes people will pay $70k for a pickup truck then they believe people will pay 100 large for an exotic looking sports car. "See! You get Ferrari looks for half the price."
I predict the ZR1 model or whatever they'll call it will have an MSRP of around $160k.
And at that point the Corvette will have finally jumped the shark.I predict the ZR1 model or whatever they'll call it will have an MSRP of around $160k.
09-26-2018, 11:31 AM
#98
I believe higher end trims can cost much more than the base trim. I just don't think the base trim will jump that much.
09-26-2018, 11:46 AM
#99
Discussion on price is just conjecture without inside knowledge but I'm curious. Has this ever happened in the automotive industry before? I understand prices creep up with inflation and "luxury trims". Has a model ever been refreshed and been 2x the price? I don't mean a model that was discontinued and then brought back decades later. I mean, for example, the new Toyota Camry was debuted at the Detroit Auto Show and the base price jumped from say $20K to $40K. Or even with your pickup example, the new F-150 comes out and the base price jumps from $35K to $70K.
I believe higher end trims can cost much more than the base trim. I just don't think the base trim will jump that much.
I believe higher end trims can cost much more than the base trim. I just don't think the base trim will jump that much.
09-26-2018, 12:53 PM
#100
Team Owner
maybe u know more than the ex-Vice Chairman of GM but I doubt it.
As others cited, Bob Lutz is “speculating” the first model is a “base” that he expects to be $5k over the C7 base. Only later will there be premium models and i believe he’s speculating an electric hybrid.