LIVE Lutz AutoLine!!! C8 Talk
09-22-2018, 08:20 AM
#21
Melting Slicks
Bob mentions that before the bankruptcy the rear mid engine corvette would only cost five grand more than the front mid engine corvette with comparable equipment...
add mrc, dct and maybe z51 heavy duty coolers, brakes and suspension and we have the price of the c8 starting msrp...according to Mr Lutz...
should revolutionize the sports car market...come 2019 calendar year or 2020 model year delivery time frame...
add mrc, dct and maybe z51 heavy duty coolers, brakes and suspension and we have the price of the c8 starting msrp...according to Mr Lutz...
should revolutionize the sports car market...come 2019 calendar year or 2020 model year delivery time frame...
The following users liked this post:
JerriVette (09-22-2018)
09-22-2018, 02:51 PM
#22
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,919 Likes
on
5,328 Posts
Bobs great.. i dint agree with him on tesla or on the fact americans are moving away from car ownership for a long long time.
i did find his statement hiw a luxury brand lease could cost less per month than a lower oriced vehicle lease. I believe his example was a mercedes e or c class versus a chevy..
its true the subsidized rates of near luxury and luxury brands often is equal to or even slightly less than american branded products...
i believe GM s moves into ride sharing and re leasing preowned lightly used vehicles with an extended warranty could resolve that foreign brand subsidized lease situation.
surprisingly corvette buyers tend to jot buy by monthly payment as often as other brands...
they usually oay cash in full at time of purchase...
Bob suggests a five grand price increase over a similarly option front engine corvette makes the most semse.
hopefully one day we will at least get to see the cadillac concept vehicle styling..
he spoke of the cadillac version quite nicely.
id be interested in seeing it.
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
The following 2 users liked this post by Bill Dearborn:
fasttoys (09-22-2018),
JerriVette (09-22-2018)
09-22-2018, 04:17 PM
#23
Race Director
I think Bob is right, but when you take a base Z51 1LT Coupe ($61,590) and add a DCT (probably $1,500 more than a 8L90 Auto) $3,225 and MSRC ($1,795) and then a $5,000 premium, you are at $71,610, and that is without any price increase due to inflation (the C7 MSRP hasn't really changed since 2016). It is probably bringing the entry price closer to $75,000, although I think GM will get it priced at $69,995.
shou,d be an amazing vehicle to own.
i would like to see the ohv v8 churn out closer to 500 hp as icong on the cake...
believe it or not many of us still need the extra hp to justify our purchase decision a little firmer,
Last edited by JerriVette; 09-22-2018 at 04:19 PM.
09-22-2018, 04:33 PM
#24
Race Director
Car ownership is going to drop off quickly. The people that want to own cars are going to start dying off fairly quickly over the next few years and the replacement Customers (younger generation just coming out of high school/college) aren't really interested in driving or owning a car. Autonomous vehicles are closer than you think and that changes car ownership greatly. Why own one when you can call one to your door to take you anywhere you want to go? Think Uber without the driver.
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
not to turn this into a political discussion. I think with jobs coming back etc...the young people will want to own cars again..
not like we did in the 1960s but i think the kids will continue to buy cars if they have jobs that are good paying..
this seems to be holding true. In the cities you are correct because parking and insurance is crazy. In the suburbs i still think people will still want their own cars.
car sharing. .? Uber? I dont think it will be as strong as everyone is suggesting.
we have had uber for a few years and car sales are still hovering around 17 million saar,
i think transportation fleets will exist yet im not convinced it will be as dominant as many are suggesting.
thats just my opinion.
if everyone of the kids is working at flipping burgers maybe car ownership will fall off big time but if the kids can get good paying jobs ,,they will buy cars.
i believe a lot of the malaise towards cars was because the kids were not getting good paying jobs so they just said they dont care about cars...the independence and freedom to just be able to go at a moments notice is still a valued opportunity to sell cars to people,
cycles in society are relatively constant...in my opinion with good jobs and a 3or 4 percent economic growth...people still love cars...
with 1percent job growth and a flood of illegals working off the books,,,it takes a bite out of the economy,
again..all this is just my opinion amd I respect yours as well.
thamks Bill
Last edited by JerriVette; 09-22-2018 at 04:37 PM.
09-22-2018, 05:18 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
I think Bob is right, but when you take a base Z51 1LT Coupe ($61,590) and add a DCT (probably $1,500 more than a 8L90 Auto) $3,225 and MSRC ($1,795) and then a $5,000 premium, you are at $71,610, and that is without any price increase due to inflation (the C7 MSRP hasn't really changed since 2016). It is probably bringing the entry price closer to $75,000, although I think GM will get it priced at $69,995.
Bob Lutz is a fascinating guy to listen to. Many good stories, and pragmatic insight.
Last edited by Michael A; 09-22-2018 at 05:19 PM.
09-22-2018, 07:14 PM
#26
I believe Bob meant $5000 more than the current car, not $5000 plus a bunch of existing options. That would put it at about $62K. Bob knows an entry price higher than that will doom the car.
Bob Lutz is a fascinating guy to listen to. Many good stories, and pragmatic insight.
Bob Lutz is a fascinating guy to listen to. Many good stories, and pragmatic insight.
So now we have 2 ex GM execs talking about the car. Gradual release of photos and videos. And people are saying there's no such thing as a gradual reveal.
The following 2 users liked this post by Bikerjulio:
Michael A (09-23-2018),
ProblemHouston (09-23-2018)
09-22-2018, 09:41 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Car ownership is going to drop off quickly. The people that want to own cars are going to start dying off fairly quickly over the next few years and the replacement Customers (younger generation just coming out of high school/college) aren't really interested in driving or owning a car. Autonomous vehicles are closer than you think and that changes car ownership greatly. Why own one when you can call one to your door to take you anywhere you want to go? Think Uber without the driver.
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
If all of the performance car owners are going to be dead in the next five years, why is GM investing so heavily in C8, continued aggressive Camaro development, Ford continuing to sell the GT350, and shortly introducing the Shelby GT500, Dodge continuing to spew out variations of Demons, Hellcats, etc, - this is not counting the Asia and Euro manufacturers.
09-22-2018, 10:09 PM
#29
Race Director
K
I believe Bob meant $5000 more than the current car, not $5000 plus a bunch of existing options. That would put it at about $62K. Bob knows an entry price higher than that will doom the car.
Bob Lutz is a fascinating guy to listen to. Many good stories, and pragmatic insight.
Bob Lutz is a fascinating guy to listen to. Many good stories, and pragmatic insight.
if there is no standard features on the c8 that were optional on the c7 then the added cost of the c8 will be five grand according to bob lutz. The man who left gm in 2010 when the c6 was still in prodiction...
bob was basing his cost increase estimation on the c6 FME to what his anticipated increase in cost for the RME prototype c7 while he was working for gm.
jmo
09-23-2018, 02:18 AM
#30
Le Mans Master
misinterpatation is a funny thing. All i was saying was if the base c7 z51 was 61 grand and did not include as standard mrc but the c8 includes mrc standard...the c7 cost of the optional mrc would be factored into the base price of the c8..
if there is no standard features on the c8 that were optional on the c7 then the added cost of the c8 will be five grand according to bob lutz. The man who left gm in 2010 when the c6 was still in prodiction...
bob was basing his cost increase estimation on the c6 FME to what his anticipated increase in cost for the RME prototype c7 while he was working for gm.
jmo
09-23-2018, 03:12 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
I think Bob is right, but when you take a base Z51 1LT Coupe ($61,590) and add a DCT (probably $1,500 more than a 8L90 Auto) $3,225 and MSRC ($1,795) and then a $5,000 premium, you are at $71,610, and that is without any price increase due to inflation (the C7 MSRP hasn't really changed since 2016). It is probably bringing the entry price closer to $75,000, although I think GM will get it priced at $69,995.
Example:
2020 ME Base price: Between 59,999 to 63,000
2020 ME Base Z51 price: 67,000 to 69,500.
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-23-2018 at 03:14 AM.
09-23-2018, 07:23 AM
#32
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
Car ownership is going to drop off quickly. The people that want to own cars are going to start dying off fairly quickly over the next few years and the replacement Customers (younger generation just coming out of high school/college) aren't really interested in driving or owning a car. Autonomous vehicles are closer than you think and that changes car ownership greatly. Why own one when you can call one to your door to take you anywhere you want to go? Think Uber without the driver.
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
Car production volumes will start to drop off as people want fewer vehicles and the manufacturers will have to adapt to the new reality.
Even such things as light/commuter rail will be affected as traffic volumes in the US change.
Bill
Byw... total car volume will go up as you need to have far more cars on the road to service demand. Empty cars driving around to get people needs to be factored in. Right now for you to get two and from work there are two trips, home to work and work to home. If you commute using an autonomous car, there are 4 trips involved. Autonomous carvto your home, Home to work, autonomous car to work, work to Home. Traffic likely gets far worse as a result.
Last edited by NY09C6; 09-23-2018 at 07:41 AM.
09-23-2018, 09:14 AM
#33
Melting Slicks
I am fairly confident that GM will not be making any ME version lower than the current Z51 - it will be far easier to fit a dry sump engine in the car than design the engine bay with the added height for a wet sump.
09-23-2018, 09:48 AM
#34
Race Director
One thing to remember the DCT will be the only trans available for the ME which will reduce production and packaging cost that will be rolled into the base price. I am not sure mag ride will be on the base car, that should be an option. I think the ME will have a lot of options which will allow customers to load up the purchase price similar to what Porsche does with their cars. This allows GM to keep the base entry price in line with previous generations with the benefits of personalizing your car with profitable options for GM pockets. The first year will have fewer options and every year after that the options list will keep growing.
Example:
2020 ME Base price: Between 59,999 to 63,000
2020 ME Base Z51 price: 67,000 to 69,500.
Example:
2020 ME Base price: Between 59,999 to 63,000
2020 ME Base Z51 price: 67,000 to 69,500.
manual transmissions were easily fitted to rear mid engine cars for decades and still are on the boxster and cayman at 54 grand or whatever they charge ...
suppliers will make gm a very enticing deal to keep the manual transmission a viable standard feature and this will allow gm to upcharge the 77 percent who prefer no clutch pedal...
its the upcharge that will entice the corvette team and allow them to offer the standard starting msrp at a lower advertised level...
its an heritage thing....a manual transmission is just part of what the american public wants to hear is in that beautiful corvette..
i get asked that question all the time when john q publics are admiring my corvette...
after wow its beautiful i am always asked...is it a stick shift....and when i answer yes...i see a big smile and a thumbs up..
doesnt matter the automatic or dct is quicker accelerating...the general public wants to know the corvette comes standard with a manual transmission..
we dont have to understand it...we just have to acknowledge that stick shift is part of the corvette allure..
ive been driving manuals for forty years...im buying a dct corvette without question...yet i believe the c8 will be offering a manual transmission standard for the reasons mentioned above,,
eventually the dct will take over completely but not in the 8 th generation...
Last edited by JerriVette; 09-23-2018 at 09:50 AM.
09-23-2018, 10:39 AM
#35
Melting Slicks
you are probably correct about the dct only transmission yet until its official lets consider that there is a possibility maybe not at launch that a manual transmission will be standard...
manual transmissions were easily fitted to rear mid engine cars for decades and still are on the boxster and cayman at 54 grand or whatever they charge ...
suppliers will make gm a very enticing deal to keep the manual transmission a viable standard feature and this will allow gm to upcharge the 77 percent who prefer no clutch pedal...
its the upcharge that will entice the corvette team and allow them to offer the standard starting msrp at a lower advertised level...
its an heritage thing....a manual transmission is just part of what the american public wants to hear is in that beautiful corvette..
i get asked that question all the time when john q publics are admiring my corvette...
after wow its beautiful i am always asked...is it a stick shift....and when i answer yes...i see a big smile and a thumbs up..
doesnt matter the automatic or dct is quicker accelerating...the general public wants to know the corvette comes standard with a manual transmission..
we dont have to understand it...we just have to acknowledge that stick shift is part of the corvette allure..
ive been driving manuals for forty years...im buying a dct corvette without question...yet i believe the c8 will be offering a manual transmission standard for the reasons mentioned above,,
eventually the dct will take over completely but not in the 8 th generation...
My other concern is EPA regulation & new safety technologies and how a manual could interfere with the interface of that particular technology. Automakers are pushing to develop better and better automatic transmissions as they chase every last fraction of mpgs to meet ever tightening Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards passed by the EPA. Automatics give engineers better control over how every drop of fuel is used in every revolution of the engine, and every molecule of pollution that comes out the tailpipe. Every stick shift they sell that gets worse gas mileage than an automatic drags down their average fuel economy. If they don't meet the steadily increasing targets on the way to an average of 39.4 mpg by 2025, automakers face big fines.
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-23-2018 at 05:03 PM.
09-23-2018, 12:53 PM
#36
i believe that GM can start the car at the additional $5k for the base car. The result of that is that we will not see the huge discounts that we have on the C7 today. It can be done but you can't have both.
Last edited by ProblemHouston; 09-23-2018 at 12:54 PM.
09-23-2018, 01:07 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
i do believe that a special edition with a manual could be available in the future. The days when a manual is less expensive for a consumer & car manufacturer without a charge for that manual is going away as volume declines. One main reason it will cost more money for the suppliers to produce a one off manual as that supplier doesn’t have any other request to help reduce its cost. For this reason Corvette will have no choice but to charge for this request if they decide to produce a manual. My 15 Z06 & R8 are both manuals, Audi stoped production in 2015 for the R8 and all Audi cars by 2020. Since the Corvette will be unique with a rear mid engine design and no other car in all their line up with this arrangement I unfortunately feel it will be cost prohibitive to have a manual. ME is on an island all by itself as no other ME manufacturer other than Lotus, Porsche have ME manuals.
My other concern is EPA regulation & new safety technologies and how a manual could interfere with the interface of that particular technology. Automakers are pushing to develop better and better automatic transmissions as they chase every last fraction of mpgs to meet ever tightening Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards passed by the EPA. Automatics give engineers better control over how every drop of fuel is used in every revolution of the engine, and every molecule of pollution that comes out the tailpipe. Every stick shift they sell that gets worse gas mileage than an automatic drags down their average fuel economy. If they don't meet the steadily increasing targets on the way to an average of 39.4 mpg by 2025, automakers face big fines.
2019 Chevrolet Corvette
6.2L Manual City 16, Highway 25, Combined 16
6.2L Automatic City 15, Highway 25, Combined 15
If Porsche can offer manuals, Corvette can offer manuals.
Last edited by Michael A; 09-23-2018 at 01:09 PM.
09-23-2018, 05:13 PM
#38
Melting Slicks
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-mpg-estimates
While the public mistakenly presumes that this federal agency is hard at work conducting complicated tests on every new model of truck, van, car, and SUV, in reality, just 18 of the EPA’s 17,000 employees work in the automobile-testing department in Ann Arbor, Michigan, examining 200 to 250 vehicles a year, or roughly 15 percent of new models. As to that other 85 percent, the EPA takes automakers at their word—without any testing—accepting submitted results as accurate.
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-23-2018 at 07:06 PM.
09-23-2018, 08:14 PM
#39
Race Director
Camaro, mustang, challenger, mx5, fiat 124, porsche boxster, cayman, 911, , lotus all manage to offer both manuals and automatics.
if they can do this so can the corvette team.
if they can do this so can the corvette team.
09-23-2018, 09:45 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
i hope they do but remember a manual in a ME is different than a FE very few available, My Lotus Evora GT had Manuel cable issues which got covered under warranty. The automatic in the Lotus was nothing special Manaul was the best option. .