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A lifeline to those who must have a manual?

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A lifeline to those who must have a manual?

Old 09-26-2018, 12:39 PM
  #21  
sunsalem
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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
I could write a check for $70k tomorrow without worrying about my account balance. But $4k is still $4k. I'll always be a value shopper, it's just my nature. About $4k is probably what the upcharge for the DCT will be.

To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
You have a point.
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:21 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Jeff V. View Post
The patent has nothing to do with the gear linkage. This is basically just clutch-by-wire. Similar to how they moved to throttle-by-wire back in the early 2000s.

So it'd still be a traditional three-pedal manual. But instead of hydraulics for the clutch release bearing, there'd be an electronic pedal and an actuator in the bell housing.

So it's possible they could have some sort of partially automated low speed crawl mode for stop and go traffic or parking lot maneuvers. Drop the car in first or second and then drive it like an automatic up to a certain speed. You could also have a clutch pedal that's as light as a little 4 cylinder econobox, but on the other end would be a heavy duty clutch that's clamping on 800 ft-lbs of engine torque. Depending on how they set up the clutch pedal assembly itself, they might even be able to have pedal feel tied to the drive mode selector.

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, GM does with this.
This sounds interesting but it also sounds like possibility for reliability issues.
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Old 09-26-2018, 03:47 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by GOC View Post
This sounds interesting but it also sounds like possibility for reliability issues.
You mean like having the clutch pedal stick to he floor if you don't flush the dirty electrons out of the system every 6 months, like with the hydraulic clutch operated throw-out bearing used in the C5, C6, and C7?
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:16 PM
  #24  
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I think that this patent isn't targeted specifically for the C8. Rather, I see this more for remote engine start applications (with a manual). This would allow them to upsell customers to a more expensive remote start option even for manual cars (not just the C8, but Camaro, etc.). I'm not saying the C8 will (or won't) get a manual, I just don't think this patent has anything to do with that decision. I, for one, would pay extra to get remote start on my manual car.

Last edited by disasm; 09-26-2018 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:42 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post
The patent info release is to calm the fears of no manual c8.


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Old 09-27-2018, 09:52 AM
  #26  
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For myself, I am more interested in the DCT. But I truly hope GM finds a way to have a manual in the car for those that want it. I understand the draw and thought the same thing for my own sports cars and motorcycles for years. No longer feel that way but get it.
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Old 09-27-2018, 11:30 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
You can do the shift linkage electronically, too::

a) take a shifter rod in a 7 gear selection assembly with 7 microswitches. ... .
But as I posted in another thread they could use a Ferrari like shift gate to look cool! Would expect they would not use devices like micro switches but rather non contact ones like the Hall sensors currtely used with rev match to define what gear you planning to go into. Don’t see why they can’t use the DCT mecanisum as is. Currently they have to use a logic algorithm that is sometimes wrong. For example when accelerating they “assume” the next gear needed is an upshift and the DCT is already in that gear. However if for whatever reason you wanted to go into a lower gear and taped the brake, say for a turn, it has to change the preselected gear to the lower one. It just takes a fraction of a second longer.

Currently I commonly shift from 5th to 3rd when making a casual turn. Also 7th on the interstate to direct drive 4th. Would be nice to continue and no reason all the DCT controls could not be activated with a level and position sensors. There is also an issue on take-off not wanting the clutch to slip excessively. The pedal activated sensor could apply it with human logic better than a computer guess.

All appear to be doable and give the driver satisfaction of a standard shift. After all the airplane I just landed on for tomorrow’s visit to the Rider Cup was all operated by fly by wire. Just like the airplane there is a computer that operates it normally but in an emergency the pilot can control most items. In fact as they do with an airplane, if you try to downshift and the lower gear would be above redline- they could limit that! Now if you mistakenly go from 5th to say 2nd when 4th was intended, once you release the clutch the tires etc can rotate the engine above redline!


Last edited by JerryU; 09-27-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:14 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by disasm View Post
I think that this patent isn't targeted specifically for the C8. Rather, I see this more for remote engine start applications (with a manual). This would allow them to upsell customers to a more expensive remote start option even for manual cars (not just the C8, but Camaro, etc.). I'm not saying the C8 will (or won't) get a manual, I just don't think this patent has anything to do with that decision. I, for one, would pay extra to get remote start on my manual car.
It could also be for start-stop fuel saving technology.
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Old 09-30-2018, 03:30 PM
  #29  
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I love rowing through gears as much as the next guy, but automatics/manu-matics are the future. Sooner or later you're going to have to come to this realization.
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:04 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
I could write a check for $70k tomorrow without worrying about my account balance. But $4k is still $4k. I'll always be a value shopper, it's just my nature. About $4k is probably what the upcharge for the DCT will be.

To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
agree. Itís silly to say that someone ďcanít afford itĒ just because they donít **** their money away.

On a MUCH smaller scale, I remember one guy here giving me **** because IMHO Mobil One oil filters are over priced. I buy WIX.
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:49 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by ProfessorDeath
I love rowing through gears as much as the next guy, but automatics/manu-matics are the future. Sooner or later you're going to have to come to this realization.
On a sports car? Why?

The whole point of a sports car is the fun of driving it. Autos are boring with or without paddles.

I understand why a road course track guy would want one. But for my street car, never!
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:04 AM
  #32  
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I am trying to be open minded about a DCT. Like really trying, because I know they are faster, but there is something about that mechanical linkage and the driving experience that is hard to let go of. Watching videos of Lambos and Ferraris with DCT's is different. These are lower displacement OHC engines that rev really ******* fast. GM is likely to stick with OHV, which im good with, but I dont think a DCT will be nearly as exciting with the price point of a Corvette when compared to the fore mentioned. Plus, GM ******* blows at making transmissions so my hopes are low.
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:11 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
On a sports car? Why?

The whole point of a sports car is the fun of driving it. Autos are boring with or without paddles.

I understand why a road course track guy would want one. But for my street car, never!
Yes, the experience of going through the gears and accelerating after each gear is really something fun and exhilarating that can't be duplicated with an auto transmission.
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:00 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Jeff V. View Post
It could also be for start-stop fuel saving technology.
More likley as that is a GM benifit! They need gas saving technology to meet corporate mpg goals.

Propely integrated Start/Stop works great. In our BMW X5 SUV you donít even know itís working. Foot off the brake and canít hear the starter. Some companies are shutting the car off just after an ignition cycle so the combustion pressure in that cylinder is what is mostly used to turn the engine. It also uses a form on braking energy recovery by only using the alternator when coasting or braking. The Vette already has electric steering just need to add an electric water pump.
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:02 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by fumbling View Post
Yes, the experience of going through the gears and accelerating after each gear is really something fun and exhilarating that can't be duplicated with an auto transmission.
Sure. No doubt. Unless you actually race and/or care about performance figures. Manuals are slower. By a wide margin.

More fun? The argument could be made.

Better Performance? Not since the late 90’s.

edit: I’m 100% confident you’ve not tried a newer auto/dct/manu-magic. They’re just as exhilarating as a manual... unless you never actually push your car. If you’re a cruiser? Pick your poison.

Last edited by ProfessorDeath; 10-02-2018 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:07 AM
  #36  
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some may have to just save the C7's.

Today's manuals just can't match the auto tranny anymore
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:28 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by TBIRD57 View Post
some may have to just save the C7's.

Today's manuals just can't match the auto tranny anymore
Agree a DCT with standard trans efficient spur gears and no inefficent torque converter is better than a “slush box l
ike the A8. If they added a simple shift by wire manual activation lever could keep the fun in driving and skipping gears when desired etc. We’ll see it GM incorporates that feature in the Tremic DC Transaxle.

Last edited by JerryU; 10-02-2018 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 10-02-2018, 08:57 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ProfessorDeath
Sure. No doubt. Unless you actually race and/or care about performance figures. Manuals are slower. By a wide margin.

More fun? The argument could be made.

Better Performance? Not since the late 90’s.

edit: I’m 100% confident you’ve not tried a newer auto/dct/manu-magic. They’re just as exhilarating as a manual... unless you never actually push your car. If you’re a cruiser? Pick your poison.
I have and it was boring as hell.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:08 AM
  #39  
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Manuals are really fun to drive (I have a '02 Z06 so I should know) but I think a true DCT would be just as much fun especially due to the speed of the shifts. The previous gen A6 and current A8 just can't provide that same visceral experience IMO. I've driven C6 and C7 with the autos and tried using the paddle shifters in those but to be honest, they were just useless. There was way too much lag time in the shifts. It wasn't an enjoyable driving experience when either upshifting and downshifting. So when I drove them I just left it in "D" and cruised around. I did ride in a friend's Porsche 911 with the PDK transmission and when he upshifted/downshifted it (via the paddles), it sure left an impression on me! I'm looking forward to GM finally taking the next step in the evolution of refining the Corvette and bringing it in line with the best sports cars in the world.

So I think with a true DCT, the experience will be just as engaging as a manual. Again JMO ... YMMV!
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:01 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
On a sports car? Why?

The whole point of a sports car is the fun of driving it. Autos are boring with or without paddles.

I understand why a road course track guy would want one. But for my street car, never!
Thanx for sharing your OPINION.

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