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22% of 2018 Corvettes had a manual trans, not a big number but a significant one, this tells me GM sees enough profit in it to make it happen.
Interesting stat is 35% of 2014 production was manual trans. 40% for coupes.
I can't see GM ignoring this. (hopefully no committee/focus group decision)
My guess is that the first year there is the most of customer configured orders. After that the dealers will be doing more of the orders.
Would love to see what the breakout stats are for who actually configured the order.
Can't find it.
I think 2014 was an anomaly because that MY had the aging A6 as the auto option. When the A8 debuted in 15, the number of manual orders dropped precipitously and now is hovering near 20%. That's still a significant number, and I'm holding out hope for a manual option.
Just because they have it and people buy them doesnt mean the experience is good. Companies also put torque converters in place of dual clutch in sports cars and people buy those cars too but guess what, experience is **** (i.e A8, what a horrendous transmission to be in a car like ZR1).
The problem 99% of the time is boost trop when changing gears. Either downshifting or upshifting. There is no way to cheat the law of physics. Even with pre tensioned turbos, there is still noticeable boost drop and that translates into turbo lag. When you get back on the gas, massive torque hits a second after you are on the pedal or while downshifting the boost dies and so does the the torque and you feel like you hit a wall.
If those who buy these cars never really drove a proper N/A manual, they ll never know what they are missing. Better yet if they dont know how to drive a manual transmission, its still problem.
Point is, it is better to have manual turbos or not.
I've driven plenty of turbo cars with manuals. The sky didn't fall. They drove fine. In fact, you can buy a $25K Mustang or Camaro with a turbo 4 with a manual. An automatic isn't even available with the Camaro 1LE Turbo 2.0L.
35% percent of Dodge Challenger Hellcat owners are ordering the manual, even though there is quite a hit in performance compared to the automatic. Obviously, the driving experience matters.
Need to keep up with what has been 99% announced. Tremic, the makers of the M7 will provide a transaxle for the C8! It is like the one in the Ford, Ferrari etc as it is an efficient spur gear type manual with a dual concentric clutchs. It will not have a 3rd peddle as the computer with switch between gears. It will also engage automatically when you take off.
Should be happy it’s not a GM built, inefficient “slush box” that needs big coolers and overheats. No more torque converter problems. Forget the A6 or A8 or GM bulit A10. It will be a 7 speed like the M7. I’ll miss a stickshifter and clutch peddle but time and technology move on!
I'm looking forward to a Vette with a DCT. I still don't think they're going to offer a manual in the C8 but I suppose we'll know for sure soon enough.
I'm looking forward to a Vette with a DCT. I still don't think they're going to offer a manual in the C8 but I suppose we'll know for sure soon enough.
The Corvette has been in need of a well sorted DCT for years.
It will never be truly world class until.this car has a proper DCT to compete with the best Europe can offer.
Need to keep up with what has been 99% announced. Tremic, the makers of the M7 will provide a transaxle for the C8! It is like the one in the Ford, Ferrari etc as it is an efficient spur gear type manual with a dual concentric clutchs. It will not have a 3rd peddle as the computer with switch between gears. It will also engage automatically when you take off.
Should be happy it’s not a GM built, inefficient “slush box” that needs big coolers and overheats. No more torque converter problems. Forget the A6 or A8 or GM bulit A10. It will be a 7 speed like the M7. I’ll miss a stickshifter and clutch peddle but time and technology move on!
I guess 16 city/25 hwy/19 combined doesn't beat 15 city/25 hwy/18 combined - because the first set are the EPA numbers for the 2019 C7 GS Coupe M7 and the second are for the A8. If we look at the Base Stingray, it is 17/29/21 (M7), 16/28/20 (A8). I guess maybe you are arguing that the C7's Tremac 7 speed isn't modern, or is the A8 not its automatic counterpart - although that is all GM puts in the C7.
Cherry picking is just silly. And no. Those figures are well within the margin of error considering those road tests are simulated on a dyno.
So beit! Your choice. There are still a few who hate that the C7 doesn't "have round taillights that "will never buy another Vette!" Some will stick to it!
DETAILS: I'm not happy but will accept change:
I've only had standard shift DDs for ~60 years of driving! Started with a 3 speed on the floor in my '41 Coupe I "stufed" an Olds into; then a 3 on the tree '50 Ford and finally a "had to have" 4 speed with by first new car, a '67 Corvair I modified with 14 wheels, headers etc. My 260Z also had a 4 speed but the CJ5 I had for winter had 6 speeds- a 3 speed with a two speed box behind it.
My first 7 speed was a Dodge Colt Turbo - a 4 speed with a twin stick overdrive like an 18 wheeler. Actually 8 speeds but 2 were the same ratio but you could split shift and get 7 unique speeds. The next true 7 speed was my 1st Vette, an '88. it came with a Dough Nash 4 speed with a 2 speed electrically operated overdrive that could be activated in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th with a button on the top of the shift ****. Mostly used as a 4 speed then 4th overdrive but could run through all 7 gears if desired. A 6 speed ZF in my '93 Vette and trucks with standard shifts before my Tremic M7 2014 Z51 and now my Grand Sport!
Yep will live with a dual clutch 7 speed, efficient spur gear trans in the C8. It's needed to have "Start/Stop" - oh yea needed to reduce the ~15% gasoline energy wasted while idling. Not easy to do with a manual Don't like that either? Then cars will get worse for you! Currently the Vette will need to achieve 56 mpg in 2025. It's being negotiated by GM with the Government and CA probably down to 50 mpg is my guess. Can't get their with big pushrod V8!
Corporate mpg goals will get closer as 2025 gets closer when it's mandated. If you haven't heard the 2019 Silverado will get a 2.7 Liter L4 turbo and GM sells over 550,000 of that full size very profitable trucks each year! Think some of those macho truck owner's are jumping for joy! Yep if they will do that for their top selling profitable truck, think they are worried about 30,000/year Vette sales? And no you won't just switch brands, they are all in the same position! The world is changing, we'll have to evolve with it!
THE WORLD IS CHANGING - BUT CAN BUILD YOUR OWN:
You can build your own street rod- I did! Have an 8.2 Liter 525 hp BB in a '34 Ford. You can get an old Vette or a '67 Camaro (which was my option to the '34) and now buy a 572 cid crate motor from GM. Fits nicely in the Camaro chassis. See a number of BBs in them at car shows! But like my street rod geared for 0 to 60 runs with 16.5 section width rear tires with the engine set back 6 inches to get 53% of th e weight on the rear wheels- I only get ~10 mpg! Good enough to go to car shows!
So beit! Your choice. There are still a few who hate that the C7 doesn't "have round taillights that "will never buy another Vette!" Some will stick to it!
DETAILS: I'm not happy but will accept change:
I've only had standard shift DDs for ~60 years of driving! Started with a 3 speed on the floor in my '41 Coupe I "stufed" an Olds into; then a 3 on the tree '50 Ford and finally a "had to have" 4 speed with by first new car, a '67 Corvair I modified with 14 wheels, headers etc. My 260Z also had a 4 speed but the CJ5 I had for winter had 6 speeds- a 3 speed with a two speed box behind it.
My first 7 speed was a Dodge Colt Turbo - a 4 speed with a twin stick overdrive like an 18 wheeler. Actually 8 speeds but 2 were the same ratio but you could split shift and get 7 unique speeds. The next true 7 speed was my 1st Vette, an '88. it came with a Dough Nash 4 speed with a 2 speed electrically operated overdrive that could be activated in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th with a button on the top of the shift ****. Mostly used as a 4 speed then 4th overdrive but could run through all 7 gears if desired. A 6 speed ZF in my '93 Vette and trucks with standard shifts before my Tremic M7 2014 Z51 and now my Grand Sport!
Yep will live with a dual clutch 7 speed, efficient spur gear trans in the C8. It's needed to have "Start/Stop" - oh yea needed to reduce the ~15% gasoline energy wasted while idling. Not easy to do with a manual Don't like that either? Then cars will get worse for you! Currently the Vette will need to achieve 56 mpg in 2025. It's being negotiated by GM with the Government and CA probably down to 50 mpg is my guess. Can't get their with big pushrod V8!
Corporate mpg goals will get closer as 2025 gets closer when it's mandated. If you haven't heard the 2019 Silverado will get a 2.7 Liter L4 turbo and GM sells over 550,000 of that full size very profitable trucks each year! Think some of those macho truck owner's are jumping for joy! Yep if they will do that for their top selling profitable truck, think they are worried about 30,000/year Vette sales? And no you won't just switch brands, they are all in the same position! The world is changing, we'll have to evolve with it!
THE WORLD IS CHANGING - BUT CAN BUILD YOUR OWN:
You can build your own street rod- I did! Have an 8.2 Liter 525 hp BB in a '34 Ford. You can get an old Vette or a '67 Camaro (which was my option to the '34) and now buy a 572 cid crate motor from GM. Fits nicely in the Camaro chassis. See a number of BBs in them at car shows! But like my street rod geared for 0 to 60 runs with 16.5 section width rear tires with the engine set back 6 inches to get 53% of th e weight on the rear wheels- I only get ~10 mpg! Good enough to go to car shows!
Jerry, I enjoyed your rundown of eclectic transmissions, and interesting cars!
Yes, times are changing, and I will have to change with them. I am just saying a DCT is not a replacement for a manual for many folks, including me. Will I have to choose between a V8 with an auto (C8, Jaguar F-Type R) or a car with a lesser cylinder count and a manual ( Cayman, BMW)? It's very possible. Tough decision. I love both V8s and manuals.
If the rumors are true that the base C8 price is going to be 30% higher than the current base C7 price, I may not have to worry about it. I won't be able to afford it anyway.
Jerry, I enjoyed your rundown of eclectic transmissions, and interesting cars!
Yes, times are changing, and I will have to change with them. I am just saying a DCT is not a replacement for a manual for many folks, including me. Will I have to choose between a V8 with an auto (C8, Jaguar F-Type R) or a car with a lesser cylinder count and a manual ( Cayman, BMW)? It's very possible. Tough decision. I love both V8s and manuals.
If the rumors are true that the base C8 price is going to be 30% higher than the current base C7 price, I may not have to worry about it. I won't be able to afford it anyway.
Thanks. "My guess" is the C8 will be within 10% of the C7. They did not expand the plant to build fewer cars! We'll see.
I had an idea but like many, I think I saw it in an Audi DCT! It had a shifter and gate. Not the Ferrari gate shown but like that. Would not be a mechanical link to the trans but using Hall sensors to define where the trans will shift like those used for Rev Match it would let the driver select the gear. Not the same and would be slower shifting than in fully automatic mode but then I could shift directly from say 7th to 4th (direct drive) as I do now and not go though two other overdrives. Would feel different and be clutchless but should work. Once in the desired gate the shift would occur instantly. The Hall sensors, as with Rev Match, would active before the lever was fully at the end of the desired gate.
They could provide and optional switch that in one position said Automatic/Paddle and the other Gear Selector. Just a thought.
Thanks. "My guess" is the C8 will be within 10% of the C7. They did not expand the plant to build fewer cars! We'll see.
I had an idea but like many, I think I saw it in an Audi DCT! It had a shifter and gate. Not the Ferrari gate shown but like that. Would not be a mechanical link to the trans but using Hall sensors to define where the trans will shift like those used for Rev Match it would let the driver select the gear. Not the same and would be slower shifting than in fully automatic mode but then I could shift directly from say 7th to 4th (direct drive) as I do now and not go though two other overdrives. Would feel different and be clutchless but should work. Once in the desired gate the shift would occur instantly. The Hall sensors, as with Rev Match, would active before the lever was fully at the end of the desired gate.
They could provide and optional switch that in one position said Automatic/Paddle and the other Gear Selector. Just a thought.
Modern DCT's allow you to skip gears. You do not have to downshift 7th to 6th, then shift 6th to 5th, then shift 5th to 4th. They are not sequential.
Modern DCT's allow you to skip gears. …. They are not sequential.
Great. How do you skip? What I have read is the trans is already in the next highest or next lowest gear and the clutches just release and engage. Like the old thermos bottle joke knowing to keep things both hot or cold- How Does The Trans Know What To Do?
Great. How do you skip? What I have read is the trans is already in the next highest or next lowest gear and the clutches just release and engage. Like the old thermos bottle joke knowing to keep things both hot or cold- How Does The Trans Know What To Do?
"assert that the multiple downshift function of the 7G-DCT provides faster bursts of speed on tap; whenever necessary, the electronic control system skips individual gears, instead of shifting down through each gear in succession. Manual gear-shifting is also possible via the shift paddles on the steering column, for a sportier driving experience."
Did you know that during downshifting the 722.9 transmissions can skip gears so that it can match the engine RPMs with the vehicle speed. This is by normal operation. For example, the transmission can downshift from 7th to 3rd gear if you are cruising on the highway and suddenly you slow down drastically.
"Some DCT gearboxes allow you to skip gears when downshifting, and once again, the gear and engine speed is matched to provide a smooth and efficient shift."
The perfect situation for some C7 M7ers, is to also be in the market to add a new C8 auto Trans to their household, especially if their spouse also is a Corvette driver, but can only drive an auto. The utility for both Corvettes to be used as DDs, (Daily Drivers) becomes a logical payoff for suffering from a automatic transmission only C8.
"assert that the multiple downshift function of the 7G-DCT provides faster bursts of speed on tap; whenever necessary, the electronic control system skips individual gears, instead of shifting down through each gear in succession. Manual gear-shifting is also possible via the shift paddles on the steering column, for a sportier driving experience."
Did you know that during downshifting the 722.9 transmissions can skip gears so that it can match the engine RPMs with the vehicle speed. This is by normal operation. For example, the transmission can downshift from 7th to 3rd gear if you are cruising on the highway and suddenly you slow down drastically.
"Some DCT gearboxes allow you to skip gears when downshifting, and once again, the gear and engine speed is matched to provide a smooth and efficient shift."
11-16-2018, 12:34 PM
